First Date Etiquette; When 'The Bill' comes

copacetic

WindSock wrote: »

I guess I just have a lack of respect for anyone who sits on their hands when the bill comes, male or female. I don't want to be that person myself, I always offer my share but if the other party insists I won't argue or cause a scene but politely accept and I get it back the next time. Tap water is one me :cool:

+1, it's standard enough to have a little to and fro over offering to pay our share, but if the guy did the asking, he should pay. I guess I'd be surprised if the girl didn't at least make an offer to go halves, even if it is just a feeble attempt to show the expectation wasn't there. I do like the mention above of the American norm of knowing there would be no second date if the women really insisited on paying her half. It'd be a useful thing to go on to save wasting your time!

Imo from the mans point of view if he has a bad date, he should still be happy to pay. You didn't ask the girl out for entertainment.

I don't think there is a norm here, we aren't really a 'dating' society and going for first date dinners is unusual (I think?).

All the above is assuming we are talking about working people, not students as mentioned above. (Although I don't recall going on many first date dinners as a student). If thats an option you aren't a real student!

HellFireClub wrote: »

I think if I'm being fully honest, guys actually like paying. There's a nice feeling to be had after asking a girl out for dinner and having a really good night and treating her well I think, have to say, you won't believe the brownie points a guy gets for helping a girl put her coat on after dinner, I never thought of it as much of an assistance, but I've been told once or twice that it's the biggest sign of a guy with a bit of respect for his girl that you are ever likely to see, apparently anyway!

+1, opening doors, walking on road side of the path, sitting in the bad seat etc are normal imo. However in my experience this can sometimes be taken the wrong way also, as someone treating your companion as weaker when it isn't that at all.

Ickle Magoo

copacetic wrote: »

All the above is assuming we are talking about working people, not students as mentioned above. (Although I don't recall going on many first date dinners as a student). If thats an option you aren't a real student!

It is possible to be both a "working person" and a student - not a pretend student either...indeed, in some cases working is a requirement in order to complete the qualification or prior to finals... :cool:

LashingLady

I'm probably not a great authority on the whole dating thing as I married the man I started seeing when I was 18 (11 years later....). I think he paid for most drinks on the first date mainly cos I was broke (I did buy the debs tickets for the next one though...)

BUT I'm thinking that IF I had been dating in my 20's - when I was working, and he was working, and if we both had a similar income level, then I think I would prefer if the guy paid for the first date, especially if he did the asking. And I think I would prefer if the bill was just SORTED, as in, no to-ing and fro-ing and having the dance around "oh let me get half", "no it's fine I'll get it" etc etc, cos that's just embarrassing, and unnecessary and IMO not the kind of conversation for a date, 2011 or not. Some of the guys on here say that they use that as a kind of TEST to see what kind of character a lady has? Very romantic (not).

If we went for a drink either before or after I would be very happy to pay, and go into a round system. I just think that counting out notes at the table or splitting the bill on credit cards is NOT the place for dates. If we go on another date to a restaurant I would let him know beforehand that it is MY turn to pay, so again there's no hoo-ha when the bill came.

That's my thinking from someone who had a good job etc etc, but if the date is with a guy who you know doesn't have pots of cash to be able to deal with a dinner bill of €100 then I might say something before dinner about splitting the bill, so that bloody dance doesn't have to start when the bill actually comes. Cos he could actually be sweating about it the whole dinner, stressing out about whether or not he'll be able to afford the whole thing.

Nowadays I let my hubby pick up every tab and get all the drinks. It's all coming out of the same source of funds..... Sometimes I'll go to the bar and get them but I try not to

southsiderosie

Purple_Bobbin wrote: »

Personally, I would always offer to go 50/50 on a first date.

I dated someone last year and wanted to go 50/50, he refused, said I could buy him a drink instead, so I did, then when it came to his 2nd/3rd/4th drink (I had one drink all night), he refused to let me pay for them also, even though I offered. I felt bad and awkward tbh.

I don't think you should feel awkward about this. You offered and he declined.

I gave up a while ago on feeling guilty about splitting drink costs; I have never dated any man in Ireland that I could keep up with drinks wise (well keep up with and not be completely wrecked the next day!).

HellFireClub

Feeona wrote: »

+1000000!


I expect a man to pay for the first date. If he didn't, I'd think he's stingy or has a chip on his shoulder, or both! As Hellfire says it's not a good idea to take someone out for dinner if you don't really know them. It could end up being a really expensive date with a gold digger who'll never call you again! Anybody who gets burned by gold diggers more than once has no-one to blame but themselves.

Couldn't agree more with this. Of the lads that I know as mates, who are on the dating scene, the only one who wouldn't pay for a meal for his dinner date without asking for half of it off the girl, just happens to be, surprise surprise, the meanest person that I've certainly ever met...

I think gold diggers are a dying breed these days, I've never met one anyway or heard of a guy being "stung" so to speak for a free night out/dinner...

copacetic

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

It is possible to be both a "working person" and a student - not a pretend student either...indeed, in some cases working is a requirement in order to complete the qualification or prior to finals... :cool:

true of course, I was a working student myself to get through college, couldn't afford to be going for dinner dates though.

I presume you know what I meant, full time working versus struggling student.

LaHaine

Usually i find that it evens out. I might pay for the first date but if so the woman usually pays for the next night.

Prime example - always pay for cinema tickets but girl would usually offer to pay for food/snacks. So it balances out.

Id have no interest in a girl who would expect or demand me to pay. Im not a mean person and I love to spoil the person Im going out with. But that should be my choice and not a demand.

Ickle Magoo

copacetic wrote: »

true of course, I was a working student myself to get through college, couldn't afford to be going for dinner dates though.

I presume you know what I meant, full time working versus struggling student.

I didn't really - as I met my husband as he went back to uni having just completed a mandatory 24 month "on the job" prior to his finals, while I worked nights and studied during the day...students come in all financial shapes and sizes, as do the dinners they go out for.

HellFireClub

LashingLady wrote: »

Some of the guys on here say that they use that as a kind of TEST to see what kind of character a lady has? Very romantic (not).

Ah it's not so much a "test"... Just a bit of observation that either person I suppose is going to engage in on a date, guy or girl...

Couchkitten

I'd expect him to pay really. I'd offer to go halves if the situation arose where he didn't jump straight in and offer to pay.

But if you ask someone on a date - you should expect to pay for it

The Lovely Muffin

southsiderosie wrote: »

I don't think you should feel awkward about this. You offered and he declined.

I gave up a while ago on feeling guilty about splitting drink costs; I have never dated any man in Ireland that I could keep up with drinks wise (well keep up with and not be completely wrecked the next day!).

Your right, I shouldn't have felt awkward, but I couldn't help it lol.:o

Each of his drinks was about €5 and dinner was around €50 for both of us, so it cost him about €100 for the whole night and it cost me €8ish for two drinks which is why I think I felt bad/awkward.

metrovelvet

Dating is too expensive in this country. It shouldnt cost E100 for a date. Ridiculous.

coffee_cake

metrovelvet wrote: »

Dating is too expensive in this country. It shouldnt cost E100 for a date. Ridiculous.

COuld you imagine whipping out a citydeal voucher for a date :pac:

metrovelvet

bluewolf wrote: »

COuld you imagine whipping out a citydeal voucher for a date :pac:

Ha ha ha. That is too funny.

Seriously though, its ridiculous.

Dating in the US is sooo much cheaper and friendlier. Also we dont drink as much. Cheaper dates.:p

copacetic

metrovelvet wrote: »

Ha ha ha. That is too funny.

Seriously though, its ridiculous.

Dating in the US is sooo much cheaper and friendlier. Also we dont drink as much. Cheaper dates.:p

it's certainly a bit easier and possibly 'friendlier', but don't think it's that much cheaper if at all. There are plenty of reasonably priced places to go here, and plenty of overpriced places to go in the states too.

metrovelvet

copacetic wrote: »

it's certainly a bit easier and possibly 'friendlier', but don't think it's that much cheaper if at all. There are plenty of reasonably priced places to go here, and plenty of overpriced places to go in the states too.

Its definitely cheaper. Everything is cheaper, especially eating out. And there are more things to do too.

copacetic

metrovelvet wrote: »

Its definitely cheaper. Everything is cheaper, especially eating out. And there are more things to do too.

Maybe outside of the bigger cities? No cheaper eating out in New York, Philadelphia, Washington or San Fran that Dublin. Drinks and Clubs are about the same too, if not dearer.

Count Duckula

bluewolf wrote: »

COuld you imagine whipping out a citydeal voucher for a date :pac:

Is it wrong that if I went on a date with someone and they pulled out a citydeal voucher I'd think, "that's f**king awesome... I love you".

southsiderosie

copacetic wrote: »

Maybe outside of the bigger cities? No cheaper eating out in New York, Philadelphia, Washington or San Fran that Dublin. Drinks and Clubs are about the same too, if not dearer.

I have to disagree. I've lived in New York, Boston, Miami, DC, Chicago, and Dublin, and not only is Dublin insanely expensive, but you get very little value for your money. Even in New York, you can find good deals in the neighborhoods at places that are not total ****holes. Not only do you NOT have that option in Dublin, but the restaurant kitchens close WAAAAAAY too early. And the fact that Thai food is 25 euro for an EARLY BIRD special in Dublin city center is wrong on so many levels.

Plus cities like NYC Chicago and Boston have TONS of free stuff every weekend - gallery openings, movie screenings, etc. And if you are really lucky, they include drinks. I did manage to find some of these in Dublin (and I think the same people go to all of the free booze exhibition openings!), but both the price and activity options in Dublin are far below those available in cities that are equally as expensive.

metrovelvet

copacetic wrote: »

Maybe outside of the bigger cities? No cheaper eating out in New York, Philadelphia, Washington or San Fran that Dublin. Drinks and Clubs are about the same too, if not dearer.

Theres plenty of cheap eating in NYC. Let me know when your going and I'll steer you to the $4 margaritas, fourth one on the house [just dont embarrass me by tipping like a European.:p]

copacetic

southsiderosie wrote: »

I have to disagree. I've lived in New York, Boston, Miami, DC, Chicago, and Dublin, and not only is Dublin insanely expensive, but you get very little value for your money. Even in New York, you can find good deals in the neighborhoods at places that are not total ****holes. Not only do you NOT have that option in Dublin, but the restaurant kitchens close WAAAAAAY too early. And the fact that Thai food is 25 euro for an EARLY BIRD special in Dublin city center is wrong on so many levels.

Plus cities like NYC Chicago and Boston have TONS of free stuff every weekend - gallery openings, movie screenings, etc. And if you are really lucky, they include drinks. I did manage to find some of these in Dublin (and I think the same people go to all of the free booze exhibition openings!), but both the price and activity options in Dublin are far below those available in cities that are equally as expensive.

metrovelvet wrote: »

Theres plenty of cheap eating in NYC. Let me know when your going and I'll steer you to the $4 margaritas, fourth one on the house [just dont embarrass me by tipping like a European.:p]

Absolutely, I'm sure if you know the cities well you can find the best cheap but good spots, but you can do the same in Dublin now too imo.

I was really comparing 'name' places that you would go to on a hot date, eg somewhere recently in the reviews or very popular at the time. In my personal experience these places can be incredibly expensive in the states. Even picking the local neighbourhood place that you know is good because the locals are waiting in line to get a table, they can be fantastic but still expensive.

EricPraline

metrovelvet wrote: »

Theres plenty of cheap eating in NYC. Let me know when your going and I'll steer you to the $4 margaritas, fourth one on the house [just dont embarrass me by tipping like a European.:p]

As you acknowledge NYC bars or elsewhere in the suburban East Coast aren't so cheap when you factor in tips. Dublin is still over-priced, but at least the mandatory US tipping effect isn't an issue.

southsiderosie

copacetic wrote: »

Absolutely, I'm sure if you know the cities well you can find the best cheap but good spots, but you can do the same in Dublin now too imo.

I was really comparing 'name' places that you would go to on a hot date, eg somewhere recently in the reviews or very popular at the time. In my personal experience these places can be incredibly expensive in the states. Even picking the local neighbourhood place that you know is good because the locals are waiting in line to get a table, they can be fantastic but still expensive.

I still have to disagree with this. Dublin has a dearth of mid-range dining options: almost everything is carry-out or white tablecloth with very little in-between. It wouldn't be so bad except for the fact that the cost of living in Dublin is comparable to what I would call "global cities" - places where there are loads of culinary and cultural options.

Plus, in places like Brooklyn, NY and Cambridge, MA, it is a badge of honor to find super cheap but tasty dinner and drinks options. It's almost a reverse keeping up with the Joneses. So if you score a 'hot date', the way to impress them is to find the place with the good $3 tamales and $10 buckets of beer that is open until 2am.

Dublin is a great place to meet people, but an expensive place to be a serial dater!

EricPraline wrote: »

As you acknowledge NYC bars or elsewhere in the suburban East Coast aren't so cheap when you factor in tips. Dublin is still over-priced, but at least the mandatory US tipping effect isn't an issue.

Yes but for those of us who aren't beer drinkers, the bartenders don't charge you for mixers, and they aren't so stingy on the pour...especially if you are tipping well.

metrovelvet

I have to say I agree with SSR ^ above.

I know both cities very well and Dublin is WAY expensive and with little value for money and not many choices at all.

That is the problem with dating in Ireland is that unless the bill is split someone get landed with a whopper, no matter what way you cut it but in NYC you can always find reasonable value. And again with more options outside of eating.

And it looks far more impressive to find one of these kinds of places than going to some tourist trap that was written up in The New Yorker.

metrovelvet

EricPraline wrote: »

As you acknowledge NYC bars or elsewhere in the suburban East Coast aren't so cheap when you factor in tips. Dublin is still over-priced, but at least the mandatory US tipping effect isn't an issue.

They are still way cheaper, even with the tipping.

Feeona

LooseMoose wrote: »

I must admit I would always pay myself on a first date, but got to ask why is he stingy when your the one expecting someone else (who you obviously only met or don't know that well yet) to pay for you???

I'd quoted Hellfire's post, which also says it's silly to bring out a girl on an expensive date when you've only met them. I agree with that. Why waste your hard earned cash on someone who's only out for what you have?

I'm not stingy, and I don't expect anyone to pay for dinner for me. Anyone who has paid for dinner for me asked me out, so they spent their cash how they chose. I'd be stingy however if I asked someone out for dinner, and then at the end of the night dropped the bombshell 'By the way, you're paying for half'.

Feeona

God... wrote: »

Fair enough, was just my point of view of people with that opinion sorry.

It wasn't a point of view, it was a personal insult


EDIT : And to be honest, I expect more from a person who calls him/herself God : p

stripysocks85

Since day 1, I have always offered to pay half. Sometimes it's taken up on, sometimes declined. I don't take much notice. Likewise, if a guy buys me a drink in a club, I'll 9/10 times buy him one back. I don't understand this 'he should pay' mentality.

Poor Craythur

stripysocks85 wrote: »

I don't understand this 'he should pay' mentality.

To be honest, it's a throwback to when much more men worked than women. I can't understand a woman in this day and age expecting a guy to pay for everything in a relationship.

My sis leans on her BF a lot for money. He earns a lot more than her but she doesn't exactly earn a pittance.

Rocket19

To be honest, and I guess I'll be slated for this, I would expect a guy to pay on the first date.

It has nothing to with money,I have money, I just think its good etiquette. I know that guys shouldn't be expected to pay, its unequal, sexist, blahblahblah, but at the same time, if on the first date, he didn't offer to pay, I would definitly think he was a bit scabby.

Last time I was on a date, the guy pretty much paid for everything. We just got food, drinks, cinema and for everything I was like "nonono, it's ok, I can pay for myself!" but he insisted. I ended up sneaking to the bar and buying him a couple of drinks in return anyway, which is what I would usually do.

The point is though, if he didn't at least offer, I would definitely think he was being cheap. I know its not fair, but meh. I think most men with any sort of class are going to offer to pay for a girl on a first date. I'm sorry but its just manners. (It certainly wouldn't apply for relationship though, which is totally different territory.)