NTSC

OwaynOTT

Hi quick question.
Would it make more sense to get the NTSC versions of the gamecube, n64 and SNES rather than getting the converters?
Also apart from the step down converter would I need any thing else to play them on my hd ready screen?
Or what would be the best set up involved tv cable wise for each?
Any help is appreciated guys.
Mainly thinking of the SNES and gamecube you can forget about the n64.

CiDeRmAn

For these answers and more advice you never asked for we'll hand you over to Enternow and Retr0.
If this develops into a thread unrelated spat over Zelda on the cdi please relax, this is perfectly normal behaviour for this forum!

o1s1n

To save the uglyness of such an incident, I'll answer you instead

Snes - either mod your PAL console or get an NTSC one. There are some (very slight) graphical issues in some games while playing PAL carts in an NTSC console..so ultimately the best solution is to have an NTSC console and NTSC games.

However, I collect PAL games and play them in NTSC and this doesn't bother me at all.

You won't need a step down for this as the PSU is external. Just switch out the NTSC power supply for a PAL one.

The PAL n64 won't do RGB no matter how much you mod it, so best to get an NTSC one of them too. I'm pretty sure the power supply on that one can just be traded for a PAL one instead (not 100% sure though)

For both of them setup wise - nothing beats a CRT with an RGB cable.

As for the Gamecube, that would be a bit outside my knowledge. But at a guess, either modchip or import an NTSC one.

OwaynOTT

Will the ntsc versions play okay on a european tv? It's hd ready.

o1s1n

If you buy an RGB scart cable and plug it into an RGB scart slot then it definitely will.

The only problem you're left with then is the uglyness of old consoles on LCD tvs

Dr Bob

LCD isnt great with retro consoles , the gamecube mightnt be too bad but the others wont look great, also Lightguns etc wont work.
Your ideal TV is a top end last gen CRT TV, (so the biggest 5 year old non LCD TV you can find.)That way you get loads of scart sockets/s video/RGB etc and usually fun stuff like NTSC compatability and pip and the like.

Retr0gamer

For Gamecube and SNES you are better off getting the PAL systems since they are cheaper. The SNES can be modified so you can play your PAL games in NTSC and also play your imports on it.

The Gamecube playing imports is very easy and only requires the freeloader disc. Also you are better off getting PAL games unless they are far more expensive than the NTSC versions. All Gamecube PAL games I've come across either support PAL 60Hz or else have a really good PAL conversion so therefore you are getting better visuals than from the NTSC games. The only difference is that the NTSC console supports Component while the PAL console doesn't however the difference between 480p and PAL RGB's 546i (well about that) is so small it's not really noticeable.

For the N64 unless you have a sizeable PAL collection definitely get an NTSC machine. PAL N64 cannot be modified to be region free or RGB which means you can only play PAL games and they will look terrible through composite. Some NTSC machines can be modified to RGB but all support s-video out of the box which is more or less the same quality, so you get superior visuals. Another reason to go NTSC is that most PAL games aren't optimised at all. Games will run slower in PAL and have dirty great black borders and considering the low framerate of most N64 games PAL games can end up a hell of a lot less playable than the NTSC versions.

CiDeRmAn

Sure might as well get NTSC everything really, N64, Snes and GC are cheap as chips still, if you really want to play PAL games just pick up the required PAL machine as well, they are seriously inexpensive, you'll probably pick up an N64 for a fiver at a Sunday market, perhaps a Snes or GC as well.
The other thing about an NTSC GC is that you get the GC functionality in full in a Wii, so you can mod one of those and play NTSC GC titles to beat the band and have 480p output as well, via common component cables.

o1s1n

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The SNES can be modified so you can play your PAL games in NTSC and also play your imports on it.

You do have that glitchy problem I mentioned. It seems to be limited to the backgrounds though.

For example, I'm playing Secret of Mana at the moment. Sometimes when you use certain magic the background will do a glitchy flash. It's rare enough that I don't have a problem with it..but it might annoy some people. It also happens when you beat a boss and you get all those little red particles flying out.

I tried playing through Super Mario All Stars PAL recently in NTSC and had the same flashing background glitch issue too. There was a lot more of it in this game. To the point of making it unplayable.

It also happened in Super Mario World while the black shroud circle thing zooms in on Mario. You also get it on the main menu.

Starwing also has an annoying glitch where there's a strip of picture missing from the middle of the screen. It's a right pain as the rest of the image (and framerate) looks amazing full screen full speed.

I'd imagine it's PAL optimization getting messed up while running in 60hz.

Still, it doesn't make most of the games unplayable or anything...it's just not a 100% solution if you're an absolute perfectionist.

Retr0gamer

It probably is to do with PAL optimisation. I know that Nintendo were pretty good at changing the timing on the PAL games so they ran a little closer to the NTSC versions and I'm pretty sure Mana was published in europe by nintendo who did some reprogramming to get rid of a few glitches and also optimised it a bit.

Still you could always just get the NTSC version since they are cheaper or the same price... Well I imagine mana is in demand.

o1s1n

I'm considering picking up NTSC versions of the games that are badly affected...so far there aren't too many thankfully. Starwing/Starfox is a must though. In 60hz the previously crappy framerate no longer seems crappy.

Myrddin

o1s1n wrote: »

I'd imagine it's PAL optimization getting messed up while running in 60hz.

That's exactly what it is, have you tried running the games in NTSC @ 50Hz just to rule it out?

Retr0, I thought the PAL GC has native RGB?

Retr0gamer

EnterNow wrote: »

Retr0, I thought the PAL GC has native RGB?

Yes it has. It doesn't support Component though. RGB does 480i and 576i. unless you are thinking they are composite resolutions. Composite does those resolutions as well but the image you get isn't anything close to that! RGB doesn't support progressive scan modes.

Myrddin

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Yes it has. It doesn't support Component though. RGB does 480i and 576i. unless you are thinking they are composite resolutions. Composite does those resolutions as well but the image you get isn't anything close to that! RGB doesn't support progressive scan modes.

Ah thats it I always get Composite & Component mixed up...Component is the psuedo hi-def one isn't it, as used on the Wii?

Retr0gamer

EnterNow wrote: »

Ah thats it I always get Composite & Component mixed up...Component is the psuedo hi-def one isn't it, as used on the Wii?

Not really pseudo hi-def, it can do 720p and 1080i but not 1080p although Sony made up 'full-HD' to mean 1080p instead of 720p. On the Gamecube it only supports 480p just like the Wii.

o1s1n

EnterNow wrote: »

That's exactly what it is, have you tried running the games in NTSC @ 50Hz just to rule it out?

PAL games won't boot in NTSC mode at all. You also can't switch between the PAL and NTSC switch while the game is running or it'll crash the console.

The only way to get a PAL game to run on it is to have the region set to PAL - you can then set the refresh rate to either 50 or 60hz once it boots up. Some PAL games will allow you to boot in 60hz..but many of them have a security feature that'll only allow 50hz.

To get around that, you boot in 50hz and switch over to 60hz once the game gets passed it's initial startup.

They'll run in PAL 50hz perfect without any glitching issues. The console itself is absolutely perfect. It's just in 60hz some games have this happen.

As it's the games themselves, there's absolutely no way around it other than buying NTSC versions of the ones which are glitching.

It's only happened to about 4 or 5 carts that I've tried out of many..and only two of them were totally unplayable as a result. So for me it's a non issue.

For the GameCube it shouldn't really matter, most PAL games support 525/60 anyway. I'd agree about the N64. I have a launch day PAL N64 and the lack of RGB is a pain.

It hasn't been mentioned but I'd also recommend a NTSC NES over a PAL NES, most of the PAL games aren't optimised at all. After playing PAL games for nearly 20 years I'm used to them being "wrong" but I suppose it's not the way they're meant to be played.

o1s1n

Karsini wrote: »

After playing PAL games for nearly 20 years I'm used to them being "wrong" but I suppose it's not the way they're meant to be played.

I've heard a few people say that. The problem is, once you have that bubble burst you shouldn't be able to go back!

17.5% is a hell of a lot of slowdown. You wouldn't watch a movie it was that much slower - therefore you shouldn't be happy playing games like that either

Retr0gamer

I remember listening to the sound test on rocket knight adventures and gunstar heroes when I was younger and thinking to myself 'this soundtrack would be awesome if only the composer sped up the tempo a bit'. Turns out it was the PAL conversion all along ruining the music