Should we be making it harder to remain on the social welfare gravy train

mm_surf

Part of the solution would be to actually enforce the requirements for social welfare.

I've been unemployed the past year, made redundant. Been on JSB, now moving to JSA. Getting interviews aplenty, so only a matter of time until I am back in work.

Guess how many times I've been asked about my attempts to gain work over the past year?

0

No-one I know has (there were a few hundred of us made redundant together, bump into each other often)

Eh? It's one of the requirements for recieving either JSB or JSA! So why the hell isn't it being checked? Instead, once a month, a piece of paper is shoved through the slot at me to sign, and taken back again. Would it not make sense to spend those 30 seconds, once a month, actually checking things? Anything that seems that it warrants further investigation, send over to the investigative unit?

Should not the majority of social welfare have this requirement? Even disability/invalidity? Single parent allowance?

Obviously pensions would be the exception.

There seems to be a lot of resentment towards some people receiving social welfare for being workshy, lazy gits. So find them, Dept of Social Welfare!

dan_d

mm_surf wrote: »

Part of the solution would be to actually enforce the requirements for social welfare.

I've been unemployed the past year, made redundant. Been on JSB, now moving to JSA. Getting interviews aplenty, so only a matter of time until I am back in work.

Guess how many times I've been asked about my attempts to gain work over the past year?

0

No-one I know has (there were a few hundred of us made redundant together, bump into each other often)

Eh? It's one of the requirements for recieving either JSB or JSA! So why the hell isn't it being checked? Instead, once a month, a piece of paper is shoved through the slot at me to sign, and taken back again. Would it not make sense to spend those 30 seconds, once a month, actually checking things? Anything that seems that it warrants further investigation, send over to the investigative unit?

Should not the majority of social welfare have this requirement? Even disability/invalidity? Single parent allowance?

Obviously pensions would be the exception.

There seems to be a lot of resentment towards some people receiving social welfare for being workshy, lazy gits. So find them, Dept of Social Welfare!

An EXCELLENT point! (Capitals to emphasise how much I agree with it!:D)

Changes to the system need to include way more investigating people, to find out exactly what they're at. Like you, I'm unemployed (though wish I was getting the interviews!). Every month I've to put together a package of all the applications and responses I've had, to send to a mortgage insurance company, so they'll cover my mortgage payments, along with a form that's been stamped by the Dept of SW. They then spend about a week going through them, or 10 days, before I get the payment from them. I have to continue paying the premium to them during this time aswell. This is a company that I've paid a premium (a high one) to for the last 3 years, and who require more paperwork than the Social Welafare do, to prove I'm out of work.And they'll only pay out like this for a year.

Not once have I ever been asked for a single thing by the SW. Nothing at all.The most it extends to is handing over my SW card at the post office every week. I haven't signed on, haven't done anything. They've sent me 2 letters telling me I have to visit FAS at a set time to discuss my "options" and that's it. It's as though they think by sending me a letter they'll magically make a job appear for me - especially since FAS can do feck all for me, so I'm completely on my own and looking after myself. It astounds me. I'm never asked for ID, nothing. No wonder the Dept of SW is haemorrhaging money, if that's how they're operating.

AlekSmart

mm_surf wrote: »

Part of the solution would be to actually enforce the requirements for social welfare.


Should not the majority of social welfare have this requirement? Even disability/invalidity? Single parent allowance?


There seems to be a lot of resentment towards some people receiving social welfare for being workshy, lazy gits. So find them, Dept of Social Welfare!

This is a very pertinent and thorny problem but one that`s not easily solved in a politically correct manner.

I remember an RTE Prime Time programme some time back which touched on the nature of the DSP`s Investigations Branch and it`s work.

The picture portrayed was of a seriously understrength and poorly resourced unit operating under all manner of restraints.

Lies,evasion,threats and courting of interference by Politicians,Priests and Medical professionals are all part of the fraudsters defence programme.

It needs to be realized that many of the long term fraudsters will not just roll-over at the approach of a DSP Inspector.

Added to this is the relative guarantee that if the DSP manage to put together a viable case and take it to Court,the legal system will generally err on the side of the individual.

Even the Court process,if successful will more than likely be costly as Free Legal Aid will almost certainly be afforded to such an accused.

There is quite a history of convicted Social Welfare fraudsters being allowed to repay agreed sums over very long time-frames,whilst continuing to have access to the system they have just plundered.

Our national admiration for the "rebel" and the wide-boy,able to work-the-system has left us with a generation of the brightest and best spongers in Europe,augmented now by the fraudesters of several different continents who have come to experience our native charitable intent !

shoegirl

padma wrote: »

We need to be careful, talking about the unemployed in the way you are is lets face it stereotypical. I'm sure you know plenty of people out of work for a year or so who are so in debt they can't move outside their house. Some have committed suicide due to the financial burdens they've found themselves in. As for the two lads who refused 28k a year, the employer should have hired someone who has a mortgage, he did get 200 odd c.v's

Actually he admitted that 300 people applied for that one job.

So 298 people got turned down for the job. 2 people got an offer which means his criticism of rejection was about less than 1% of the actual total of people who applied for the job. Who knows if they told him the real reason for turnng it down - maybe they were offered a higher paid job!!

Also if you follow the details of that case it happened coincidentally that the lucky candidates both just happened to be migrant workers with families - they'd probably be paying the highest levels of rent (as they'd have less access to informal sources of information about local rentals) and more likely to have a spouse not working. A point that was made was that employers (rightly) cannot ask employees about their marital status or children, so single people more likely to be happy to get that level of income wouldn't be readily identifiable.

shoegirl

Offy wrote: »

What a silly post. I live in Tubbercurry, public transport is a joke in the sticks. If I used it I would have to stay overnight somewhere. Are you going to suggest I buy a tent and camp out too? Try hitching to Dublin from Tubbercurry and see if you can get there and back in one day.
Home laundry with a suit? Or should I turn up in t-shirt and jeans? Suits need dry cleaning.
Bring a sandwich, ok thats not silly
The point been that it cost money to go to interviews, even public transport for one interview can cost up to as much as 12% of a weeks dole. That really means a night without fuel for the fire or one day of going very hungry.

I have to say I agree here. I lived in Cork for 8 years and my whole life was based there, but when I got notice of redundancy (not even very upfront - we were told we were "at risk" and they setup this pretence of trying to "mitigate" the situation, i.e. pretend they were looking at all the options) I applied for about 40-50 jobs in 3 months and by the end of a week after the layoff I think I had 4 interviews, none of which I was impressed much with. So I packed my bags and went to Dublin and got myself enough contract work to last me til June.

Ok so it meant losing half my life and I hardly see friends, but at least its work and I've learnt a lot. I'd rather this than being miserable in some slum flat in Cork and not knowing how long it was going to go on for. Maybe some day I might get back down south, but for now, I'm happier to be working anywhere than in the limbo of social welfare.

Hannibal

The real gravy train is the rent allowance grazy train. All you seem to have to do is have a baby then you get at least €800 per month towards a house. My neighbour does this and both of them are only 20 with a kid, house paid for plus they both get their full €190 labour per week..

mm_surf

AlekSmart wrote: »

This is a very pertinent and thorny problem but one that`s not easily solved in a politically correct manner.

I remember an RTE Prime Time programme some time back which touched on the nature of the DSP`s Investigations Branch and it`s work.

The picture portrayed was of a seriously understrength and poorly resourced unit operating under all manner of restraints.

Lies,evasion,threats and courting of interference by Politicians,Priests and Medical professionals are all part of the fraudsters defence programme.

It needs to be realized that many of the long term fraudsters will not just roll-over at the approach of a DSP Inspector.

Added to this is the relative guarantee that if the DSP manage to put together a viable case and take it to Court,the legal system will generally err on the side of the individual.

Even the Court process,if successful will more than likely be costly as Free Legal Aid will almost certainly be afforded to such an accused.

There is quite a history of convicted Social Welfare fraudsters being allowed to repay agreed sums over very long time-frames,whilst continuing to have access to the system they have just plundered.

Our national admiration for the "rebel" and the wide-boy,able to work-the-system has left us with a generation of the brightest and best spongers in Europe,augmented now by the fraudesters of several different continents who have come to experience our native charitable intent !

Wasn't talking about checking credentials and job applications with a view to taking a court case, reimbursing money, etc.

Was talking about stopping payments to people who are not actively seeking work, one of the few conditions of many social welfare schemes!

Of course, this poses the question - what do we (as a society) do to/for people unwilling to look for work? Have we got the stomach to stop payments?

We stop payments for some people due to circumstances, obviously (i.e. not meeting means tests, etc). Do we extend this for people who have no other incomes?

DoesNotCompute

OP, although I agree with your suggestion of a credit-card style payment system that can only be used on the bare essentials, I have to pull you up on this:

fliball123 wrote: »

We need people to get back to work and when I read of two foreign nationals who were overed a salary of about 28k and they were told by their wifes that they are entitled to more on the dole it got me thinking how crazy this little country is.

What has nationality got to do with it? There are plenty of Irish citizens who've never worked a day in their lives living off the scratch. Whether or not someone is a "bloody foreigner" or not is irrelevant.

I really can't stand it when Irish people cast all foreigners in the same light. Sure our very own Michael Lowry (allegedly?) and co. are/have been ripping off the state something bad.

HellFireClub

mm_surf wrote: »

Wasn't talking about checking credentials and job applications with a view to taking a court case, reimbursing money, etc.

Was talking about stopping payments to people who are not actively seeking work, one of the few conditions of many social welfare schemes!

Of course, this poses the question - what do we (as a society) do to/for people unwilling to look for work? Have we got the stomach to stop payments?

We stop payments for some people due to circumstances, obviously (i.e. not meeting means tests, etc). Do we extend this for people who have no other incomes?

What should be happening at this stage, given that we are in a national crisis here, is that emergency legislation should be introduced to do the following:

(1) Every person who is receiving unemployment assistance or benefit, needs to register with the Dept. of Social Protection, (this could be done through a website to reduce/eliminate admin costs), their particular set of skills or their trade or area of specialisation.

(2) Every business that has a new job offering/vacancy, should have to first of all notify the Dept. of Social Protection of the position.

If you could accomplish this, which could be implemented in a month, you could immediately start connecting up job opportunities with those who are qualified...

I can tell you from recent experiences that recruitment agencies and employers themselves are not being fair to folks who are unemployed, and as for the stoogies that are employed in the Dept. of Social Protection, especially at local office level, you haven't a hope of getting them to cooperate with any initiative like this, they are from my experience the laziest most intransigent and obstructionist group of employees within the entire public sector...

mm_surf

HellFireClub wrote: »

What should be happening at this stage, given that we are in a national crisis here, is that emergency legislation should be introduced to do the following:

(1) Every person who is receiving unemployment assistance or benefit, needs to register with the Dept. of Social Protection, (this could be done through a website to reduce/eliminate admin costs), their particular set of skills or their trade or area of specialisation.

(2) Every business that has a new job offering/vacancy, should have to first of all notify the Dept. of Social Protection of the position.

Complicated, but possible. The germans run a sort of system where they actually get you a job. Take it, or your dole is cut. Could be the other end of the country, but still - its a job.

Our current situation with a LOT of people in negative equity, need both partners in work to meet the mortgage and both can't move, etc. would give a few problems.

I propose a system that's a little simpler.

Once a month, when signing on, a simple question is asked:

"What have you done to seek employment?"

But again, as well as doing the above, we need to know what to do when the response is:

"Nothing, why?"

Vanhalla

Have said this before around here, but am on a CE scheme at the moment.
Do ppl relise that these schemes are full of ppl who were getting disibility but are allowed to keep that payment along with getting the additional 200 that a normal person would be getting. so thats over 400 in wages everyweek for 19.5 hrs a week for guys who are sposed to be 'disabled'. there is **** all wrong with these ppl except they are the laziest bunch of arseholes i have every came across in my life. there was one of them going on about how he was getting an extra cost of heating allownace in the summertime of all times, getting 6 euro a week for mobile phone credit, not to mention a whole load of other things! and none of the money he gets actually goes towards the things he is suppose to be getting it for!
its an absolute ****ing disgrace. :mad::mad:
as the boss said, the worst word that was ever invented, entitelment! or however the hell its spelt!

HellFireClub

mm_surf wrote: »

Complicated, but possible. The germans run a sort of system where they actually get you a job. Take it, or your dole is cut. Could be the other end of the country, but still - its a job.

Our current situation with a LOT of people in negative equity, need both partners in work to meet the mortgage and both can't move, etc. would give a few problems.

I propose a system that's a little simpler.

Once a month, when signing on, a simple question is asked:

"What have you done to seek employment?"

But again, as well as doing the above, we need to know what to do when the response is:

"Nothing, why?"

There is actually nothing complicated about it at all, what you are proposing could not work, and it is about as defective and smug an idea as I have ever heard, because you are assuming that the folks behind hatch 45 in the dole office, actually give a sh*t about anything other than getting paid for the minimum amount of work that they can turn out every day. What you are suggesting is nothing more than another layer of beaurocracy that will achieve nothing, if you asked me what I had done to get a job recently before I started up my own business, I'd send you dozens and dozens of e-mails and CV's with covering letters applying for jobs, what are you going to say back to me??? "Here, me arse, you didn't apply for any of those?!?" This "for the file" attitude that exists in the welfare offices and in the wider civil service will never achieve anything, other than have more vested interest civil servants doing what they love to do best, which is push more and more paperwork around an office all day...

These are the same people who have decided with their union, that they will not take phone calls from the public in their office because of a recruitment freeze. Where would we be if the emergency services, nurses, teachers, and other public sector workers who are also working within a recruitment freeze, just decided that they were going to snub Joe public who had a query and not take phone calls???

The people working in the public office of the Dept. of Social Welfare are the laziest and most obtuse people I have ever encountered on the face of the earth. They have an unmasked distain for every person on the dole, if they had their own way, they would have you spending your lifetime filling out forms and handing them more paperwork.

The unemployment problem will never be resolved in this country because there is neither the political will, nor the public sector HR capability or basic interest to deal with what is in all reality, an easy enough problem to resolve. In this country, when applying for a job, it isn't what you know, it's who you know. The amount of people I know who have been applying for jobs that they are well qualified for and not even getting an automated e-mail back, why are people not asking what on earth is going on there???

It is corrosive to your health and your confidence to be trying to get a job in this country, you are banging your head off a brick wall, endless applications and not as much as a, "thank you for applying", and then people have the neck to slag off those who are trying to find work.

The only way we will get people engaging with those out of work and get them connected up with real employment opportunities is to change the way jobs are filled in this country, and that means emergency legislation to force employers to deal with those on the dole where they are suitably qualified, and also to force those on the dole to engage with an employer where a suitable position comes up, and lastly, what is needed is this entire function needs to privatised and taken out of the hands of the obstructionist "for the file" gobsh*tes that staff the local welfare offices in this country...

not yet

How about this for a kick in the bollocks to all taxpayers....

A lady with two kids got a council house 5 years ago and never moved in, instead had a sub tennent lined up to pay 125euro per week minus her 40 in rent left her a nett profit of 85 just like magic.

And the real sickener....she was living with the boyfriend in an apartment and he was claiming rent allowance class...

Welease

not yet wrote: »

How about this for a kick in the bollocks to all taxpayers....

A lady with two kids got a council house 5 years ago and never moved in, instead had a sub tennent lined up to pay 125euro per week minus her 40 in rent left her a nett profit of 85 just like magic.

And the real sickener....she was living with the boyfriend in an apartment and he was claiming rent allowance class...

and you reported them?

zeds alive

The Rent allowance problem could be addressed by providing/building more social housing , just like in the rest of Europe. It makes no sense giving someone rent allowance indefinitely while failing to provide a council house in a country with 200,000(correct me if I'm wrong) empty house owned by nama.
In my case I receive rent allowance for my rented house while there is 5 empty houses(empty for 3 years) owned by nama on my row.

fliball123

HellFireClub wrote: »

The OP conveniently chooses to forget that the majority of people who are on social welfare, have actually worked, they have paid PRSI, the social protection payments that they receive, they have paid for that protection through PRSI payments before they lost their job!

I can't get over the neck of someone who comes on here saying, "WE shouldn't be paying for this and WE shouldn't be paying for that, give them all free cheese and butter vouchers"... I'm also one of those in the WE group, I paid my PAYE and PRSI for years and years...

I was recently on the dole, because I had no luck with getting a job I started up my own business. Every state department and agency that was mandated to support someone like myself, opposed every effort I made.

If you want to start looking at where the waste is, start looking at the politically appointed goons and stoogies in state agencies like the County Enterrprise Boards, FAS, the Dept. of Social Protection, etc, getting paid a grand a week to push and shunt endless reams of paper around an office while actually opposing the people that they are meant to be supporting.

The person who started this thread reckons we should push more goons and stoogies into the dole office and create more paperwork and formfilling "for the file", more beaurocracy for having a suit dry cleaned or a bus ticket refunded, the goons down in the dole office would love the likes of you with your, "for the file" attitude. I can only assume that you are a public sector worker yourself and you have the standard obsession with filling out forms and all forms of beaurocracy. How does such an action cut the cost of running the country???

The vast majority of people on the dole want to work, but they can't because there are no jobs in this country. There's a heavy culture of "having to know someone" in order to get through 3 interviews in this country, you're lucky if you get a reply to your application...

where did I forget this...I am just saying that a credit system should be brought in??? whats the problem...and what your forgetting is the fact that we have one of the highest unemployment rate entitements in Europe as well as you leave out those who are illegally on the dole and those who are on there for 3 / 4 / 5 years now...

The face is WE the tax payer are paying for this as stated how is it fair that my next door neighbour who is now out of work 2 years has more money at the end of the week than I do..its like I am working for myself and him

fliball123

HellFireClub wrote: »

I can tell you, as someone who was on the dole until recently and knows what the f*ck they are talking about, that when you're income is 188 Euro a week, you can't afford any luxuries, you can barely survive. You are talking out of your arse on this subject. Your whole contribution is deeply deeply offensive to someone from my own backround who has been there and done that.

I am talking about getting a credit system in your money will just be a differeent form..Whats the problem with that?

fliball123

dan_d wrote: »

Sweet mother of god, what sort of an OP is that?
I'm not posting again on this topic, nearly everyone here knows my opinion on statemtns about 'EVERYBODY on the dole'
.Good for you OP, a few weeks in the 90'!?You haven't the first clue what it's like. Not a notion. As for money for interview suits....well, that's assuming that just one of the endless CVs you send out in a day actually yields a reply, let alone an interview.

I'm actually speechless that there are still people out therr that are totally ignorant of social welfare and the current massive unemployment problem. I am ALL for reforming socila welfare and have frequently posted my thoughts on that.But I see red when I read posts like yours OP, because there's a level of complete ignorance with regard to what it's like and how it works, that is breathtaking.

Its not my fault that I have gainful and steady employment in the meantime (or is it..is it the fact that I put myself through 7 years for a masters in trinity college at night whilst I was working) . I do not understand anyones tolerance to the sheer amount of people screwing the dole over and people just pumping the money into the pubs or saving it for a foreign holiday...Now I do understand people have lost their job through no fault of their own and I do have sympathy for them, but as I have stated whilst my neighbour and others who are on the dole have more disposable income than I do then I have the right to call a spade a spade when 2/3s of our outgoings are being paid to this? I never said it would be easy to get a job but with the new revelations of people turning down jobs for 28k a year as they get more on the dole...but no I have not got a clue...

fliball123

mickeyk wrote: »

here is a report that is worth a read if you are interested in this topic, data is up to 2009 and our rates haven't changed much since then. It is very easy to make generalisations about people on the dole without knowing all the facts. No doubt some will dismiss it's findings as left wing propaganda, but to summarise:



To be fair our unemployment rates were among the lowest in Europe until recently, people generally want to work! Yes there are layabouts and wasters who know every trick in the book to milk the system but the vast majority of people on welfare are not there by choice. For those of you looking to further grind these people into the dirt by enforcing some sort of food stamp or voucher system, well I hope ye never have to queue for them.

BTW I am not in any way ignoring the fiscal crisis, it is clear we are living way beyond our means as a state and drastic action will no doubt be taken if and when we fail to meet the budgetary targets laid out by our new financial overlords, but ranting and raving about people on welfare as if they spend every penny of their dole buying alcohol and going on holidays doesn't help, most people on welfare can only dream of a foreign holiday.

Actually just looking at this..that would be an ideal solution. Allow people to get paid from the dole until their stamps which is paid from their taxes are finished then put them onto a voucher system. How can that not be fair you get back what you have paid in

fliball123

jacksie66 wrote: »

This is a very patronising thread you've started here. I'm on the dole. I'm 23 and a qualified plumber. I don't feck my money I get from the dole away like you are pointing out. I use it to live each week and run my car. I have applied for so many jobs that I've lost count. So you'd replace the dole with food stamps nearly. That's just bull****. Sure there are people out there who abuse the system but that's a minority. If you had your way you'd take away my money.... plus my car, my small social life and my sanity. I wouldn't be able to save up and get out of this hell-hole and find a better life in another place. Id be sitting here getting depressed even more than i am now. Pull your head outta your arse and see the real world we live in. Come down off your high horse and don't be so pretentious. Its not like me or anybody I know wants to be on the dole. Believe me if I was offered a job in the morning I'd snap the hand off the man giving it to me... What you necessarily want to do is push people into a life of depression and despair, even further into it...

Steady on there kid...firstly my taxes should not be funding your social life regardless of how fcuking small ...secondly and in the bigger scheme of things..the majority of people working are getting cuts, increased taxes, now increased interest rates for mortgages aswell as an increase at the pump..We are no better off than you are...Yet its like I am working for my own bills and a couple of strangers aswell..I have not been out since xmas..So as for me being on my high horse its more like a fcuking half dead donkey ...but dont let the fact that tax payers are now leaving the country in droves as it is impossible to live here...I never said food stamps I said a credit card system that stops people from buying luxuries and likes that we can no longer afford

fliball123

Offy wrote: »

The problem with what you are proposing is that you can not take away peoples liberty. They just wont stand for it. If you tell people what they can live on when they are out of work you are making them a second class citizen. Thats not the culture we live in here in Ireland. By doing that your asking for another 1916.

How is implementing a system that firstly stops money going out of Ireland and secondly not being wasted on luxuries taking away people liberties...By all means if you dont want the credit card then good it saves the tax payer money or you can leave..The only thing taken away is it stops money going out of the country, it would put an end to a lot of fraud thats going on

RichardAnd

fliball123 wrote: »

The face is WE the tax payer are paying for this as stated how is it fair that my next door neighbour who is now out of work 2 years has more money at the end of the week than I do..its like I am working for myself and him

How can you know what your neighbour has at the end of the week? I don't know what my closest friend gets paid so how can you know your neighbour's buisness

fliball123

murphaph wrote: »

I think the overhead involved in the OPs suggestion would make it impracticable. We must move BACK to unemployment benefit being a real insurance based system (as it was until 25 years ago). Your levels of PRSI contributions should reflect your unemployment benefit payments for a set time, then you should see phased reduction in benefits to a minimum subsistence level. That level would be lower than the current €188 and MUST eventually (sooner rather than later if we are not to sink Ireland in an ocean of debt) head to levels comparable to the United Kingdom. We can't afford to pay ourselves more "because we're worth it".

People who work and lose their jobs should have a cushion. This should gradually be removed to ensure people don't get to comfortable on benefits. Anyone denying that there is a hardcore of benefit professionals is not living in the real world. I don't believe they make up the majority of benefit claimants BUT we must avoid the newly unemployed letting unemployment become their way of life.

If people can't find jobs in Ireland, then they should look elsewhere I'm afraid.

How would it be an overhead..seriously we control the banks..the banks have existing credit and debit card instrasture..Surely as we own them we could use some extrapulation of whats there and implement. I worked in teh bank of Ireland 8/9 years ago on the Banking365 infrastructure and as stated its there would be very little needed a project of about 6-8months...a couple of million would do it.

fliball123

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

OP, although I agree with your suggestion of a credit-card style payment system that can only be used on the bare essentials, I have to pull you up on this:




What has nationality got to do with it? There are plenty of Irish citizens who've never worked a day in their lives living off the scratch. Whether or not someone is a "bloody foreigner" or not is irrelevant.

I really can't stand it when Irish people cast all foreigners in the same light. Sure our very own Michael Lowry (allegedly?) and co. are/have been ripping off the state something bad.

Nah it just happened that the 2 guys who got the job and then turned it down happened to be foreign nationals...No discrimination meant at all...Loads of lazy irish as well

fliball123

RichardAnd wrote: »

How can you know what your neighbour has at the end of the week? I don't know what my closest friend gets paid so how can you know your neighbour's buisness

We are friends and is not shy about stating this and slating me for working my hole off. I have never said what I have or dont have to him I keep my cards close to my chest.

RichardAnd

fliball123 wrote: »

Nah it just happened that the 2 guys who got the job and then turned it down happened to be foreign nationals...No discrimination meant at all...Loads of lazy irish as well

You have a tendency to the asinine my friend. I know the story you're referencing there and the whole thing reeked of embelishment. The two guys that turned down that job could have done so for better jobs or indeed, for other reasons which we do not know of thus we can not lable them as lazy.

Further, I highly doubt the two persons in question told the prospective employer that they were turning down the jobs to remain on welfare. Whenever I have turned down job offers, I never have given a reason nor been asked for one. To me, that story was one buisness man looking for a little publicity.

fliball123

RichardAnd wrote: »

You have a tendency to the asinine my friend. I know the story you're referencing there and the whole thing reeked of embelishment. The two guys that turned down that job could have done so for better jobs or indeed, for other reasons which we do not know of thus we can not lable them as lazy.

Further, I highly doubt the two persons in question told the prospective employer that they were turning down the jobs to remain on welfare. Whenever I have turned down job offers, I never have given a reason nor been asked for one. To me, that story was one buisness man looking for a little publicity.

No the story reported that both persons in question turned it down as thier wifes told them ther were entitled to more on the dole....I listened to the radio interview....Know as you I am not sure if the guy is telling the truth but sure what reason would there be to lie. His business is fixing coffee machines if memory serves...

RichardAnd

fliball123 wrote: »

No the story reported that both persons in question turned it down as thier wifes told them ther were entitled to more on the dole....I listened to the radio interview....Know as you I am not sure if the guy is telling the truth but sure what reason would there be to lie. His business is fixing coffee machines if memory serves...

Yep, coffee and I believe the wage he cited for the jobs was 28k a year. I find it hard to believe that the two men would be entitled to more from welfare even after tax was deducted and that's why I think the story is not trust-worthy.

Besides, it's not like those are two jobs unfilled. If indeed any of the story is true then the employer in question would have filled the jobs without much trouble.

fliball123

RichardAnd wrote: »

Yep, coffee and I believe the wage he cited for the jobs was 28k a year. I find it hard to believe that the two men would be entitled to more from welfare even after tax was deducted and that's why I think the story is not trust-worthy.

Besides, it's not like those are two jobs unfilled. If indeed any of the story is true then the employer in question would have filled the jobs without much trouble.

Well its about 10k in the pocket for weekly payments, then add to the cost of getting in and out of work. Then rent allowence, medical card, esb, heat..What else are people entitled to on the dole when they have kids?

No the guy said he did finally fill the vacancy he was just saying the first two candates for the job turned it down due to and I Quote "their wifes told them they were entitled to more on the dole"

dan_d

I heard the story. Left me speechless too.

Doesn't take away from the fact that many of those on the dole are up sh*t creek without a paddle, and are equally and better qualified than you. So you shouldn't point fingers and make sweeping generalisations, based on one looking at one person you know (out of 450,000) and a story in a newspaper.