Basic Gaming build - with learning curve

Jonny7

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Wouldnt you know it, everything is now delivered except the wireless usb and.... wait for it.... the CPU paste.

So my entire build experience is being held up by a little €3.99 bottle of MX-4.

Oh the injustice.

check the bottom of the cpu heatsink.. some stock coollers already have a layer of paste on them

nozzferrahhtoo

This is true but I also purchased what I was told was a very good one. Is there much difference between the stock stuff and the stuff I bought in terms of over clocking and the like. Is it best to hold off until the better grade material is in there before I mess with such things?

nozzferrahhtoo

Newbie questions below....

So far so good. The cooler master case is a joy to work with. Tool less bays for the HDDs and the SDD. So all drives are mounted, CPU is in, RAM in the correct slot population etc.

Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus CPU cooler was a difficult one to install for a newbie but I got there in the end. For anyone who gets it, it is designed specifically for 3 types of intel socket and 2 AMD types. Small moveable parts allow you to set which socket. 1155 support is stickered on to the box as an afterthought and the instructions do not tell you which is for 1155 so you work this out yourself in the end. It came with its own paste though, so it did not matter than the CPU did not have any. Some helpful videos on you tube demonstrating the install too.

XFX Black Edition 850W ATX 2.3 is indeed a beast, but looks great, fits great and the semi modular design means you have the mainboard connectors and some PCI-E connectors already set, then it is optional from there on.

Newbie questions...

Still a complete newbie though so have a couple of most likely horrifically obvious questions...

1) Never used SATA before. Ever. So new to this and to the difference between SATA and Sata II. my board has 8 SATA ports. 4 of them at speed 3/s and 4 at 6/s. I gather the HDDs I got are SATA so they go into the 3/s. The SSD is SATA 2 so that goes into one of the 6/s? The MOBO came with 4 Sata cables (E322903 Style 2725 80oC 30V 6G 26AWG Dingsheng) which I assume I can use on all 3 drives??? Same with SATA power connectors, there is no difference between I and II?

2) Power. The semi modular PSU has the 24 pin connection my Mobo needs already fixed. It also has 2 PCI-E already fixed. After this there are 2 more connectors... one terminating in an 8 pin head... the other in a 6 pin head with a 2 pin optional extra hanging off it too. I assume the 8 pin head is the one I need to put into the ATX 8pin CPU power port on the MOBO?

3) The Cooler Master Case comes with 2 fans installed, back top and front bottom. Not entirely clear how to install these. Do they need to go to the MOBO somehow or not? The wires coming off them look like normal power wires, but terminate in 1 4 pin male and 1 4 pin female style connectors. Do I need both? Is it optional?

game4it70

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Newbie questions...

Still a complete newbie though so have a couple of most likely horrifically obvious questions...

1) Never used SATA before. Ever. So new to this and to the difference between SATA and Sata II. my board has 8 SATA ports. 4 of them at speed 3/s and 4 at 6/s. I gather the HDDs I got are SATA so they go into the 3/s. The SSD is SATA 2 so that goes into one of the 6/s? The MOBO came with 4 Sata cables (E322903 Style 2725 80oC 30V 6G 26AWG Dingsheng) which I assume I can use on all 3 drives??? Same with SATA power connectors, there is no difference between I and II?

2) Power. The semi modular PSU has the 24 pin connection my Mobo needs already fixed. It also has 2 PCI-E already fixed. After this there are 2 more connectors... one terminating in an 8 pin head... the other in a 6 pin head with a 2 pin optional extra hanging off it too. I assume the 8 pin head is the one I need to put into the ATX 8pin CPU power port on the MOBO?

3) The Cooler Master Case comes with 2 fans installed, back top and front bottom. Not entirely clear how to install these. Do they need to go to the MOBO somehow or not? The wires coming off them look like normal power wires, but terminate in 1 4 pin male and 1 4 pin female style connectors. Do I need both? Is it optional?

1.
All the modern sata drives are backwards compatible so in theory you should just be able to connect to either port on board but see no gains if you use sata 6 (not 100% on this though)
As for the cable and power there fine to use.

2.
The 2xPCI-E are for gpus.These would normally be 8pin (6+2)
The 8Pin EPS-12v is right to use on mobo.

3.
If the fans have a small 3pin with an adapter for a bigger 4pin molex you can use either.
Your mobo will be have 3pin headers and should come with some sort of software or bios options to control speed.
If you use the bigger 4pin straight to psu they will run at full rpms.

nozzferrahhtoo

Thanks for that. Clears up 95% of my questions. I still have the one more though...

Youre right 3pin with an adapter for a bigger 4pin molex is what the two fans have. The thing is that there is an adaptor to TWO bigger 4pins on each. It goes from the small 3pin to 2 4 pins. One 4 is male. One is female. Does it matter at all which I use? I assume Im not expected to use both or the case will become a helicopter?

game4it70

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Thanks for that. Clears up 95% of my questions. I still have the one more though...

Youre right 3pin with an adapter for a bigger 4pin molex is what the two fans have. The thing is that there is an adaptor to TWO bigger 4pins on each. It goes from the small 3pin to 2 4 pins. One 4 is male. One is female. Does it matter at all which I use? I assume Im not expected to use both or the case will become a helicopter?

Your welcome.One part of it is what you use to power the fan and the other part is for letting the power pass through if you where daisy-chaining cables together.If you wanted to run a few thing off one cable from psu these fan connections would let you.
So you can use just one (female) that fits to the power cable (male) from psu.

nozzferrahhtoo

Success so far. Computer all linked up, from the hard disks up to the power buttons and led's. Turned on fine. Played with the BIOS. Ran all the memory tests and the like that the Bios offers and everything passed.

So just have to wait for my copy of Win 7 to install now and I am done.

The only 2 things giving me trouble are:

1) There is a front panel sound on the case which I have connected to the mobo. The connection into the mobo has another connection coming off it which I THINK has something to do with microphones. The connection is AC'97. There is nowhere to put this in my MOBO. Is this an issue?

2) The mobo comes with 2 usb3 ports on a pseudo expansion slot card. I have fitted this but the connection into the USB3 support port on the mobo... simply wont fit. I have forced it as hard as I dare, but it simply does not appear to go. Is this unusual or have people have this issue before?

game4it70

You just use one of the front panel audio connections.The HD audio one i would use as i think the ac97 one is for older tech.

As for the usb3 i ant got a clue as not used them before

seyeM

Did you put in the IO shield before the motherboard?

The rear IO panel should already have USB3 connections, so unless you're planning on using loads of them, the expansion card isn't necessary.

nozzferrahhtoo

seyeM wrote: »

The rear IO panel should already have USB3 connections, so unless you're planning on using loads of them, the expansion card isn't necessary.

Yea I just noticed that USB3 about 10 minutes before you posted this and it is probably more than enough. So I will probably just stick the expansion card in a drawer or on ebay or some such.

nozzferrahhtoo

Yay, installed Win 7 64 bit prof last night and it worked a dream. Copied it onto a USB stick to install it from there (since I have a build without optical drives) and from the moment I hit the power button until the moment win7 was installed with all drivers updates from Windows Update... was less than 15 minutes. Including setups, and drive formatting.

Its a lovely beat of a machine, and despite the 2 built in case fans, the large CPU fan, and the fan on the PCS+ video card... it hardly makes a noise at all. I have a new respect for all things "coolermaster" now.

Thanks for the help all, I look forward to putting the machine through its paces with gaming and more.

nozzferrahhtoo

Unusually the rig just wont turn on today.

No warning lights, no beeps, nothing, it just wont turn on suddenly.

what does happen is for half a second when you put the power on the first time the fan in the PSU power moves, so it is like it is just about to start up everything else. Then it stops. At least this proves its not a problem with the power button.

How to diagnose from there however is unclear.

Kirby

Sounds like a power issue to me.

First thing I would try is plugging out the case fans from the psu and try turning on again.

Failing that try booting up with with just the mobo, cpu and one stick of ram. Everything else should be plugged out from the psu. What happens then?

Also, when you plug the PC in, is there any blue or yellow lights lighting up on your motherboard itself or is it completely blank?

If it is, I would wager your psu is fried.

nozzferrahhtoo

Upon closer inspection it does indeed appear the problem is with the Graphics Card.

When the problem happened I had poor light, but on opening the case today in the light I can see that the card has burnt out or something. At the point on the circuit board, just behind where the Monitor connects from the outside, has formed a white partially dust smudge that I imagine was from melting.

The question now, as I repackage it and send it back and thank my luck that I live in a country like Germany with a... very strongly in favour of the customer.... returns policy.... what happened and how can I prevent the replacement from ending in the same fate. I was not even doing anything in ANY way intensive on the computer the day it happened. Emails, boards.ie.... no gaming or anything of this sort.

nozzferrahhtoo

Some pictures of the affected area.

nozzferrahhtoo

Since the last post this rig has been operating wonderfully. No more issues since they replaced (for free including all postage in both directions) the damaged Graphics Card. In the end I realized it was my fault the graphics card had been damaged. I left it where rain water of all things got to it! But thankfully they asked no questions and made a straight swap.

I have a second PC running for 8 years or so now. A Dell dimension 9100 which I specced quite high at the time. When I built the PC above however I donated this PC to my better half. She uses little more than You Tube, Office, Windows XP 64 bit, the latest Adobe readers and players, and some translation software. No heavy requirements for graphics of sound.

The PC is finally giving trouble however. Lots of Blue Screens happening. Most often while using anything Adobe related like You tube or Reader. My best theory is that some recent update is incompatible with some hardware. Nothing goes in the event logs.

So I am thinking of a new PC for her. As low budget and Power consuming as possible but at the same time something that will go a few years without slowing down under various Windows 7, Adobe, and MS office updates!

My three options are:

1) Ditch the PC and buy a decent enough Netbook and cradle. Allow her to use that on the move but dock it when she wants monitor and I/O devices. We already have an older EEEPC netbook and are happy enough with it so something along those lines but a newer model would be tempting. What are good competitors in terms of price and power for the EEEPC?

2) Build a new PC from scratch. Here I would want to keep power consumption and costs low. I would also like to reduce noise levels and case space as much as possible without wasting money. I am happy to spend when spend is justified but will scrimp where useful. What is better these days in terms of options, costs and upgradability and size? Cubes or Mini Towers? Most likely a MoBo with built in graphics and sound is enough.

3) As for 2 but actually upgrade my now 2 year old Game rig for the fun of it and use salvaged parts in building the new Office Rig. SSD and so forth. Trying hard to justify this option to myself except that it would be more fun. All good arguments to do so welcome

Monotype

If you to build a new PC from scratch, you could go for a small Intel build - i.e., get a mini-ITX motherboard. It might be a little more expensive going down this route.
The alternative getting a regular AMD AM3+ motherboard - you could pick a smallish ATX to go with it. This would be the best option if you want the most power in a system on the cheap. However, you'd need a graphics card as well, which is probably not what you're aiming for.
The last option is to get an AMD FM2+ system. There's some good FM2+ boards there to choose from and the graphics provide a little more oomph than Intel's offerings, depending on what you get. It wouldn't be as small as some of the boards from Intel, but you can get some great features for cheap in the motherboards.

I think a good motherboard and an SSD would be handy. What kind of space do you reckon that she'd need?

nozzferrahhtoo

Space requirement would be low as most of her documents are PDF and docx, small files, and a lot of other things she has stored already on google drive. So I would likely go for a small fast SSD for the OS and a small but nippy HDD, favoring speed over disk space, for anything else.

I was looking at the FM2+ boards yesterday alright. First time I have looked at AMD. I did not consider AMD when building my own system as quite simply the 2500K two years ago was the best bang for your buck and nothing else made sense.

In the last two years... correct me if I am wrong here... the price of the 2500k has gone UP 20 or 30 euro. Now, although it is slightly "better" than the Intel i5-3470, the 3470 is currently the best priced offer in terms of Bang-For-Buck. Coming in around €140. While other CPUs are "better", none of them are better enough to justify the higher costs to anyone but the most intense users.

Similarly what I learned yesterday in my research is that the AMD FX-6300 is the best Bang-For-Buck in the AMD.... is good enough to compete with the 2500K a bit... and is also at €95 not justifiable to get anything "better".

Monotype

The 3470 is a fairly powerful quad core - but the question is - do you really need even that much power?

I think that a 5400K or a 6400K would be enough.
http://www.hardwareversand.de/Socket+FM2/66806/AMD+A6+5400K+Black+Edition+mit+AMD+Radeon+HD+7540D+Grafikeinheit%2C+Box%2C+FM2.article
http://www.hardwareversand.de/Socket+FM2/80782/AMD+A6-6400K+APU+mit+AMD+Radeon++HD+8470D+Grafik%2C+Box+mit+Lüfter%2C+FM2.article

If you got a board like this
http://www.hardwareversand.de/DDR3/101595/ASRock+FM2A75M-DGS+R2.0%2C+FM2%2C+mATX.article
or this
http://www.hardwareversand.de/DDR3/66940/MSI+FM2-A75MA-E35%2C+FM2%2C+mATX.article

and paired with a 128GB or 120GB SSD, I think you'd have a very fast office PC.

I forgot that you can get some good ITX FM2 boards as well.
http://www.hardwareversand.de/DDR3/70162/MSI+FM2-A75IA-E53%2C+FM2%2C+ITX.article

If you want more processing power, you could go with Haswell as well. They have some nice, feature-filled ITX motherboards.
http://www.hardwareversand.de/Socket+1150/78034/Intel+Core+i5-4430+Box%2C+LGA1150.article

BloodBath

Might as well get the quad core A8 5600k. It's the best value from those AMD apu's.

http://www.hardwareversand.de/Socket+FM2/66804/AMD+A8-5600K+Accelerated+Processor+mit+AMD+Radeon++HD+7560D+Grafik+Box.article

nozzferrahhtoo

Ah right I guess I was only looking at more current CPUs in the new line rather than anything else. I have also seen the AMD 6300 recommended in quite a few builds around here so when I checked it out it seemed to be the best bang for buck in its line.

But its true, an "older" line with build in Graphics is likely all I need for an office PC. I always have to resist the urge to go totally current when I am building a PC. Not easy for me

nozzferrahhtoo

I think I will go with the cheapest. Replacing a Dimension 9150 does not need much The 5600 is better but not 30 euro better for a cheap low power build?

I am liking the MSI FM2-A75IA-E53 recommended above with it's onboard LAN, WLAN and Bluetooth and Sata 6GB. The only others I am seeing on Geizhals with those features (but running Sata II) are the Zotac A55-ITX and gigabyte Gigabyte GA-F2A85XN. But neither of those appear to have any features worth their higher price tags.

As both the MoBo and CPU come from Hardwareversand AND MeinPaket.de I can probably get them both from one supplier, likely with Delivery Cost free.

So unless there are any other arguments I have missed I think I will go with this combo?

nozzferrahhtoo

Looking for 2x4GB of 1600 DDR3 throws out 126 results with very little price difference between them. If I limit this to CL9 then I still get 82 results ranging from about €45 to €70.

Anything to choose between them for the above Mobo and CPU?

Is low profile worth paying for such as the Crucial Ballistix Sport VLP DIMM Kit 8GB?

Is low voltage better for a lower power low heat build? The cheapest there seems to be G.Skill RipJawsX DIMM Kit 8GB?

Or just save 15 euro with the "normal" versions of each of the above options?

BloodBath

These are the best value atm.

nozzferrahhtoo

Great, thats one of the ones I had picked out above myself.

So thats the CPU, MoBo and Ram picked out. Off to look at SSDs now

I could get addicted to this.

nozzferrahhtoo

Ok SSD in the 120-128 range start at €66 and I get 210 results so lets play with some filters

153 use the Sata 6 that my MoBo should support.

106 of them have speeds great than 500wr/350re.

Price and speed wise the best of these appear to be:

Intenso Top III SSD 128GB - €81
ADATA Premier Pro SP900 - €83
Super Talent SuperNova 128GB - €84

The last one appears to be much the fastest. The first one has a Cache: 256MB.

What do we think?

nozzferrahhtoo

Right so. An office system, but nippy, with four priorities in order of importance:

1) Power Consumption should be as low as possible.
2) Noise Levels should be as low as possible. (So passive or semi passive PSU would be nice)
3) Space taken up should be as low as possible but allowing external access to everything offered by my board. The current 9150 I have is 7.4 x 17.5 x 17.5 so it MUST be smaller than that.
4) Plain case, no flashy lights or the like.

Fixed now: Mobo, CPU, Memory, Driveless solution.
Changeable: Everything else.

Budget: €500

I threw the following together as a template (Drawing slightly on the Toms Hardware "silent but deadly" article) but let me know what can change, what is incompatible, what I have forgotten, and so forth.

Item Type|Item|Price
CPU|AMD 5400K|45
MOBO|MSI FM2-A75IA-E53|75
Memory|G.Skill RipJawsX DIMM Kit 8GB|55
|||
SDD|Super Talent SuperNova 128GB|85
PSU|Sharkoon SHA350M Bronze 350W ATX 2.3 (semi-passiv)|35
Cooling|Cooler Master Hyper 412S|25
Cooling|Noiseblocker NB-Multiframe M12-S1|15
CASE|SilverStone Temjin Evolution TJ08-E schwarz|80
OS|Windows 7 download pay later option|45
CPU Paste|?????|10
||470

Monotype

What about the samsung evo as an ssd?
http://www.hardwareversand.de/Solid-State-Disk/85975/Samsung+SSD+840+EVO+Basic+120GB+SATA+6Gb+s.article
That's a pretty good all rounder.

If you wanted to save money, the Sandisk ultra plus is ok value.

I don't really like the look of that PSU. The reviews seem do think that it's just ok, so you could probably do better. You could go with a smaller case too, if you wanted.

nozzferrahhtoo

Yeah the case I picked out from an article of a similar build on toms hardware. Looks like I can save 50 euro by going for the AeroCool QS-200 Lite. Around the same size but much cheaper and seems to be a good all rounder of a case.

Whats a good silent PSU then? Fully passive ones come in a lot more expensive. I chose that one as it was the only cheap semi passive I saw. Are there good quiet options? Maybe with better efficiency and hence better power consumption? Power consumption is more of a priority for my than noise levels, but noise is higher for me than saving space

Monotype

What about the 450W golden green?
http://www.hardwareversand.de/400+-+500+Watts/41092/Super-Flower+SF450P14XE+Golden+Green+Pro+80plus+gold.article

With a lowish load on it, it should be fairly quiet.