Transfers for next season (including transfer rumours!)

Zzippy

Fireball07 wrote: »

Ideally, we'd have JJ-Keatley as the 10-12 going forward.

Obviously it's good for them to have competition, keep them on their toes.

I've seen no evidence that JJ is good enough, nor has the potential, to be better than Keatley at 10. I know a lot of people are big fans of his and won't agree, but Keatley has really grown into the role at Munster and, while JJ is younger, I think his development has stalled and he shows no sign of being as good as those fans claim he is.

Kirk Van Houten

Zzippy wrote: »

I've seen no evidence that JJ is good enough, nor has the potential, to be better than Keatley at 10. I know a lot of people are big fans of his and won't agree, but Keatley has really grown into the role at Munster and, while JJ is younger, I think his development has stalled and he shows no sign of being as good as those fans claim he is.

JJ seems to be further along in his development than Keatley was at the same age. Seems strange that you thing he has less potential than Keatley.

Kirk Van Houten

Fireball07 wrote: »

Ideally, we'd have JJ-Keatley as the 10-12 going forward.

Obviously it's good for them to have competition, keep them on their toes.

The simple fact is that there is no one behind JJ and Keatley. Holland is leaving and Scannell still has a lot to learn. Munster need at least 3 players who can play 10 and 12 if they want to play the style of rugby they want next season.

WinnyThePoo

Zzippy wrote: »

I've seen no evidence that JJ is good enough, nor has the potential, to be better than Keatley at 10. I know a lot of people are big fans of his and won't agree, but Keatley has really grown into the role at Munster and, while JJ is younger, I think his development has stalled and he shows no sign of being as good as those fans claim he is.

We will have to see how he progresses I suppose. I think we'd all like to see him become a top player.
I also think the media and us as fans put a lot of pressure for younger players to produce solid consistent performances from a young age. Some players are so talented they do, some take longer to develop and some sadly don't develop in the players we have high hope they will become. I think we need patience foremost for younger lads to come through the system.

Tox56

Zzippy wrote: »

I've seen no evidence that JJ is good enough, nor has the potential, to be better than Keatley at 10. I know a lot of people are big fans of his and won't agree, but Keatley has really grown into the role at Munster and, while JJ is younger, I think his development has stalled and he shows no sign of being as good as those fans claim he is.

This is the Keatley who was let go from Leinster without playing a game at the age JJ is now in fairness. You're talking about the development of a 21 year old outhalf "stalling", J Sexton didn't start a H Cup game till he was 23.

Fireball07

Zzippy wrote: »

I've seen no evidence that JJ is good enough, nor has the potential, to be better than Keatley at 10. I know a lot of people are big fans of his and won't agree, but Keatley has really grown into the role at Munster and, while JJ is younger, I think his development has stalled and he shows no sign of being as good as those fans claim he is.

I have to disagree with you there. First of all, I think Keatley is better at 12 than at 10. And JJ is a hugely gifted player... he's not the finished article yet, but I would definitely disagree with saying that his development has stalled.

Stuff like his tries against Perpignan and Glasgow, you can't really teach that kind of thing. His general distribution is excellent, he has a lovely, wristy pass; I think he's a better distributor from 10 than Keatley already. And then you've got his goalkicking which is mostly excellent.

His decision-making can be questionable, he has thrown some high-risk passes... kicking the ball away against Edinburgh cost us, and I remember him running into TOD towards the end of a crucial match giving away a penalty. Some of his tactical kicking is a bit off at times, but some of it is excellent.

He has a lot to learn, but he has the basics and I reckon he will be a super 10- ROG, Sexton, Jackson all made mistakes on their upward learning curve, everyone does. Plus the fact that we have looked better then this season when they've both been on the field together, generally with JJ at 10.

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

The simple fact is that there is no one behind JJ and Keatley. Holland is leaving and Scannell still has a lot to learn. Munster need at least 3 players who can play 10 and 12 if they want to play the style of rugby they want next season.

That is true.

Zzippy

I'll be very happy to be proved wrong about JJ, and maybe I am being a bit harsh on a young player, actually thought he was older than that. Maybe it's the hype from some fanboys, calling for him to start ahead of Keatley when he clearly wasn't playing well enough to merit it. Keatley was IMO the player of the year for Munster this year, and I honestly think JJ has a lot of improving to do to push him out of the starting 10 spot.

thomond2006

Josh Furno gone to Newcastle, that's a great signing for a club at their level. He wouldn't have been a bad lock signing for Leinster but he would miss parts of the season with the Azzurri.

errlloyd

thomond2006 wrote: »

Josh Furno gone to Newcastle, that's a great signing for a club at their level. He wouldn't have been a bad lock signing for Leinster but he would miss parts of the season with the Azzurri.

Yeah, but tbh leinster have a ridiculous record during international windows. And our Ireland representation is probably gonna dip anyway.

Shame we didn't pick him up.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Zzippy wrote: »

I'll be very happy to be proved wrong about JJ, and maybe I am being a bit harsh on a young player, actually thought he was older than that. Maybe it's the hype from some fanboys, calling for him to start ahead of Keatley when he clearly wasn't playing well enough to merit it. Keatley was IMO the player of the year for Munster this year, and I honestly think JJ has a lot of improving to do to push him out of the starting 10 spot.

I'm calling for JJ ahead of Keatley at 10 but Keatley starting at 12 because I think Keatley has shown up very well at 12 when he has played there.

I would imagine next season (if Munster do want to play a game with a second five eights) that we will see 10. Hanrahan 12 Keatley 22 Blydenhal as the way things work.

Swiwi.

Could have sworn this was the transfers thread....

That aside, is there a reason for assuming TB only makes the bench if IK & JJ are available?

umop.episdn

Swiwi. wrote: »

Could have sworn this was the transfers thread....

That aside, is there a reason for assuming TB only makes the bench if IK & JJ are available?

Well if hes 4th choice back home, the very best he can hope for here is 3rd choice

Swiwi.

umop.episdn wrote: »

Well if hes 4th choice back home, the very best he can hope for here is 3rd choice

Maybe so. I'm just playing devil's advocate. I might have downplayed TB a bit, but on the other hand he did play for the NZ U20 - as captain no less - so I don't think it's inevitable that he will end up playing 2nd fiddle to JJ & IK.

Tox56

Swiwi. wrote: »

Maybe so. I'm just playing devil's advocate. I might have downplayed TB a bit, but on the other hand he did play for the NZ U20 - as captain no less - so I don't think it's inevitable that he will end up playing 2nd fiddle to JJ & IK.

I wouldnt say thats impossible but Munster will be looking to develop JJ (who also wasn't bad as an u20) and he will get a lot of faith and patience, and I think thats right given his potential. While Keatley also has a fair bit of credit in the bag after the Toulon performance (although I dont think he was that great this season overall)

Fireball07

Swiwi. wrote: »

Could have sworn this was the transfers thread....

That aside, is there a reason for assuming TB only makes the bench if IK & JJ are available?

Spent about 5 mins looking at this post wondering when Mushy Buckley had re-signed for Munster, and for what possible reason he could be on the bench in that instance

sydthebeat

Swiwi. wrote: »

Maybe so. I'm just playing devil's advocate. I might have downplayed TB a bit, but on the other hand he did play for the NZ U20 - as captain no less - so I don't think it's inevitable that he will end up playing 2nd fiddle to JJ & IK.

I remember him having a shocker from the boot at the start of the season. That's one thing the Munster faithful will demand from their 10.
With IK and JJ there, I wonder if TB well See a lot more of the 12 short than 10. I didn't know much about him in centre though.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Swiwi. wrote: »

Maybe so. I'm just playing devil's advocate. I might have downplayed TB a bit, but on the other hand he did play for the NZ U20 - as captain no less - so I don't think it's inevitable that he will end up playing 2nd fiddle to JJ & IK.

I never expect sh imports who have played super rugby and itm/currie cup to impress in year one. Its a long season and they have settle in with a new system. So for year one I expect him to be wearing 22 a lot with Keatley and Hanrahan starting 10/12. Things may well change in his second season.

cp

I see John Andress has been released by Worcester.

Also released Euan Murray. Deffo budget related with Murray - he was their highest paid player.

Releasing Andress though seems strange, unless they really don't rate him. Any space for him in the provinces?

Buer

Andress was way out of favour there and, from reading their fan forum before Murray was signed, he was very hit and miss.

hype101

cp wrote: »

I see John Andress has been released by Worcester.

Also released Euan Murray. Deffo budget related with Murray - he was their highest paid player.

Releasing Andress though seems strange, unless they really don't rate him. Any space for him in the provinces?

Murray might be a tidy bit of business for Ulster

Morf

hype101 wrote: »

Murray might be a tidy bit of business for Ulster

How does he feel about Friday nights in close proximity to a church?

errlloyd

hype101 wrote: »

Murray might be a tidy bit of business for Ulster

Especially because Ulster already hardly ever play Sundays, and Ulster is a squad I believe which does have a strong Christian (but non sectarian) religious Ethos.

rockbeast

errlloyd wrote: »

Especially because Ulster already hardly ever play Sundays, and Ulster is a squad I believe which does have a strong Christian (but non sectarian) religious Ethos.

Dear Errlloyd,

If ever there could be a winner of the "this sounds so wrong it is probably right award" post it `would be yours!:eek:

Unfortunately you phrased it incorrectly, hopefully intoxicated, and it just reads as an assault upon Ulster and the majority of people on the planet that do believe in something...

PS. RB ain't from Ulster and doesn't believe in much....except phrasing things better;)

postitnote

I think he phrased it pretty spot on actually, but for fear of dragging this thread off topic i'll leave it at that.

jacothelad

errlloyd wrote: »

Especially because Ulster already hardly ever play Sundays, and Ulster is a squad I believe which does have a strong Christian (but non sectarian) religious Ethos.

Well said. To qualify, Christians, by definition, are non sectarian. You can't be a Christian and be a bigot......... Sadly misunderstood by many 'religious' people....:D:D
Darwin has it for me...

thomond2006

Originally written off as an April Fools by the club, Oyonnax have signed Soane Tonga'uiha from Racing. One of the flops of the season, Tonga'uiha hasn't been seen in a 23 for weeks.

DGRulz

Douglas to Leinster confirmed. http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/news/11979.php#.U3shzMs1jqB

Winters

thomond2006 wrote: »

Originally written off as an April Fools by the club, Oyonnax have signed Soane Tonga'uiha from Racing. One of the flops of the season, Tonga'uiha hasn't been seen in a 23 for weeks.

What a fall from grace. Scrum law changes really don't suit him as well.

thomond2006

Winters wrote: »

What a fall from grace. Scrum law changes really don't suit him as well.

Apparently he was on between €400k and €500k. Some waste of money.

thomond2006

Hook apparently in talks with Ospreys. It would be great for the Pro12 to see him return. It would be the best move for his World Cup prospects.

CatFromHue

What position would he play for them though?

Buer

James Hook for Leinster! Out of international contention and can player both centre positions.

.ak

I'd rather have somebody who isn't going to be called up to Welsh squads though, and whilst he might not always be in the 23 he's generally in the squads.

FellasFellas

Shane Cahill, former Blackrock Senior Cup winner and Cornish Pirates, Rotherham Titans and Doncaster Knights signed for London Welsh this week.

thomond2006

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_9320618,00.html

Leicester raid of Treviso confirmed. Sigh.

razorblunt

John Andress has signed for Edinburgh on a 2 year contract. Confirmed by the club themselves.

errlloyd

I'm a huge fan of James Hook, Madigan could learn about not to have a career from him.

Getting named in a Wales "possibles" squad is patronising for him.

Buer

There has long been a feel of unfulfilled potential about Hook. It's a funny one. There aren't too many 28 year olds who have 75 caps, a couple of 6N titles (including starting outhalf for a GS), and a Lions tour under his belt that are considered to have never really delivered.

Tox56

Buer wrote: »

There has long been a feel of unfulfilled potential about Hook. It's a funny one. There aren't too many 28 year olds who have 75 caps, a couple of 6N titles (including starting outhalf for a GS), and a Lions tour under his belt that are considered to have never really delivered.

Yeah that Hook-Fitzgerald-Earls 10-12-13 for the Lions in 09 was ludicrously naturally talented, don't think any of them have quite hit the heights they are capable of, for a variety of reasons

Buer

Well, Hook may as well have shagged Gatland's missus when he moved to France given how it panned out for him.

Given how last season's Lions tour went in terms of personnel, I'd have had him in the initial touring party. Experienced and proven player who has toured before and has played 10, 12, 13 and 15 at test level. It was sad to see him playing for the Barbarians against them and then guys like Barritt and Twelvetrees called out with Hogg playing 10.

former legend

Buer wrote: »

Well, Hook may as well have shagged Gatland's missus when he moved to France given how it panned out for him.

Given how last season's Lions tour went in terms of personnel, I'd have had him in the initial touring party. Experienced and proven player who has toured before and has played 10, 12, 13 and 15 at test level. It was sad to see him playing for the Barbarians against them and then guys like Barritt and Twelvetrees called out with Hogg playing 10.

Which makes you wonder why he'd bother coming back to Wales at all. As Darren Cave would say, his face is never going to fit with Gatland. The fact that Gatland would consider him third-choice behind Biggar and Priestland says a lot.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

former legend wrote: »

Which makes you wonder why he'd bother coming back to Wales at all. As Darren Cave would say, his face is never going to fit with Gatland. The fact that Gatland would consider him third-choice behind Biggar and Priestland says a lot.

What's more when he took to the field at 12 in the last six nations game Wales looked a different beast in attack.

Must be horrible to see the vastly overrated pairing of Roberts and Davirs preferred to him considering henhasnthe ability to bring north and cuthbert into a game like they can't .

How many welsh games have gone by where North is just a passenger in attack because of a lack of creativity in midfield?

Gatland narrowly beat a disorganised injury ravaged Australian side and people were calling him the worlds best coach .

Sorry that turned into a bit of a rant

Swiwi.

Good luck to Clermont, could see this move turn sour pretty fast

Buer

I think Clermont are going to fall a tad in the next year or two. They're going to lose guys that have been the heartbeat of the side in the last 5 years. Sivivatu, Vosloo, Hines and Byrne. Then we have guys who will finish up surely in the next year or so such as Bonnaire (has he announced retirement alread?), Cudmore, Rougerie and even Brock James will be considering it.

The guys they've brought in are either not at the same level (Abendanon) or problem players (Guildford). Interesting times ahead for Clermont.

thomond2006

Bonnaire is playing on next year.

ssaye2

thomond2006 wrote: »

Bonnaire is playing on next year.

Bon

matthew8

He's a legend of the game but surely it's about time that he retired. The age of this year's Clermont team was ridiculous. Not sure about the Abendanon signing either. Will he even start ahead of Buttin?

thomond2006

matthew8 wrote: »

He's a legend of the game but surely it's about time that he retired. The age of this year's Clermont team was ridiculous. Not sure about the Abendanon signing either. Will he even start ahead of Buttin?

I think it's good to keep him on, they are losing a lot of experience as it is.

sydthebeat

Couldnt understand the abendon signing when it was first announced... hes no more than a consistent journeyman in my eyes.

as Buer say above, i can see then falling off for the next few years, with the likes of racing, toulouse on the rise again... and with castres and toulon at the level their currently at.

razorblunt

sydthebeat wrote: »

Couldnt understand the abendon signing when it was first announced... hes no more than a consistent journeyman in my eyes.

as Buer say above, i can see then falling off for the next few years, with the likes of racing, toulouse on the rise again... and with castres and toulon at the level their currently at.

That signing is up there with Richard Haughton at USAP, types of players that get referred to as "mecurial talents" by Stuart Barnes and give Morris the horn but never amount to much.