Spare Key

Chris_5339762 · 25-03-2011 8:02pm #1

I'm renting at the moment, landlord is using a letting agency.

I got an email about a month ago -

Over the Christmas period, several of our tenants became locked out of their apartments/houses. And, since we didn’t have spare keys for several of these properties on hand, it was difficult and time-consuming trying to get the tenants in again.

As a result, we are requesting that all tenants make a copy of your keys (the key for the main door to your house/apartment) and send this copy to us here in the head office so that we can keep it on file, in the event that you may get locked out of your property.
The process of getting your key cut should cost no more than €3 – a small cost, I’m sure you’ll agree, and one that will be priceless in the future, if we ever need to use it.
The spare key should be posted to us at the following address:

I didnt send them a spare key. Why? Because I have one already. I was proactive and got one cut, which is hidden somewhere (not saying where, but its not in the house or anywhere reasonably nearby

) Also I have the following problems with it.

1) Why should I pay for something that the landlord should, in my book, provide? Its only €3, but still I dont feel I should have to pay for this. I'm happy with my key arrangements.

2) Does the landlord even know there will be spare keys floating around, one of which is at head office of the letting agency. One assumes they'll keep it well secured as it'll have name/address details on it.

3) How do I post it to them? Put it in an envelope and send it in? Great, how do they know its from my house? Put the ADDRESS IN THE ENVELOPE WITH THE KEY?

I ignored the email and today received a snotty second email.

As you are aware, I contacted you a month ago, requesting that you make a copy of the key to your apartment, and send it in to the office for us to keep on file. It is of the utmost importance that we have spare keys on file for all properties, for insurance purposes and in case of any emergencies that may arise during the tenancy.

I have yet to receive any correspondence from you on this matter. Please be advised that, if you get locked out of your apartment, it will be very difficult for us to assist you in regaining access to the property without a spare key.

We must insist that you get a key cut and send it in to us by April 30th.

The process of getting your key cut should cost no more than €3. The spare key should be posted to us at the following address:

I still dont think I'll be sending them the key. Do I have a legal requirement to listen to this? I just dont agree with the fact that I have to go out of my way to do it. Also, the tone of the second email has put my back up. Its gone from a request to a flat out demand.

Thoughts?

antoinolachtnai · 25-03-2011 8:16pm

I think you are safe enough.

I really wouldn't advise sending a key through the post. If you were to include the address of your property, this would clearly be a problem. Your insurance would be unlikely to cover you if you were robbed in these circumstances.

You should not give the key back to the agency without the specific consent of the landlord.

How do you even know the person sending the letter is in fact who they say they are?

There may be a clause in your lease forbidding you from cutting a copy of the key.

It seems likely that the agent has lost their only spare key. Either the agent or the landlord should hold a spare key.

ztoical · 25-03-2011 8:50pm

What cheek! Any LL or agent I've rented from has always had a spare set of keys themselves in case they need to access the property in an emergancy [like when our roof started leaking when both myself and flatmate were at work and couldn't get home] and normally it's written in the lease that your not to make copies [though must admit I always have as I'm a terror for locking myself out]

Tell them if they weren't bright enough to get a copy of the key before you moved in that you'll be happy to make them a copy and you'll be taking the cost of the key from the rent [it's only a couple euro but it's the princple of it TBH] and tell them to come collect [at a time that suits you] as it's really not bright to be posting keys like that.

Doop · 25-03-2011 9:59pm

Why not just tell them you have made arrangements should you get locked out... as you said above..........

loyatemu · 26-03-2011 1:03am

tell them to ask the owner and that you are not authorised to issue keys for a property you don't own to a 3rd party.

djmcr · 26-03-2011 9:44am

Reply, asking for €3 up front as well as the cost of postage and a hourly rate for your time as well as mileage rate for the car for the trip to the shop and insist that they reply to you asap as it is for insurance purposes and in case of any emergencies that may arise during the tenancy.

Chris_5339762 · 26-03-2011 4:38pm

Yeah I'm going to provarocate over this, its ridiculous. Just wanted to double check on here incase there was any general rule that you had to do it. Ireland has some pretty weird tenancy laws so a double check cant hurt! Will keep ye updated on how this plays out.

Ciara22 · 27-03-2011 10:34am

I actually cant believe how petty that is. The attitude towards landlords and agencies etc is so bad now that even supplying a €3 key is basis for an argument and a chance to get one up on your landlord?

Obviously they have only requested this in the event of an emergency, or, what happens if tenants leave the property at the end of their lease and dont return keys and dont leave contact details?

I agree that they should have a kept a spare key at the start of the tenancy but everyones human, what if they just forgot!!?? I know there are a lot of agencies out there that dont have great business practice but thank god this one sounds like it is copping on to that and updating their practices. Just ask for the €3 to be reimbursed, Im sure they will oblige.

djmcr · 27-03-2011 4:52pm

I think the issue has a lot to do with the tone of the request

3DataModem · 27-03-2011 7:46pm

Ask for a written request from LL. Do NOT give an agency a key in response to an email request like this.

Baralis1 · 27-03-2011 8:50pm

I would refuse this request. I'm open to correction but as far as I know you don't have to give a key of your home to anyone and are entitled to change the locks if you wish to. No-one should have access to your home while you are living there unless you wish them to have access, and this includes letting agents and landlords. Of course you should surrender all copies of the keys if you move out.

Faolchu · 28-03-2011 9:09am

should teh landlord himself not have a copy of the front door key? let teh bloody agent get it from him

robd · 28-03-2011 11:48am

Baralis1 wrote: »

I would refuse this request. I'm open to correction but as far as I know you don't have to give a key of your home to anyone and are entitled to change the locks if you wish to. No-one should have access to your home while you are living there unless you wish them to have access, and this includes letting agents and landlords. Of course you should surrender all copies of the keys if you move out.

Absolutely 100% untrue. It is completely illegal to change the locks.

The landlord is entitled to a key to the property. He may delegate to the agent to manage this. No one is entitled to enter your home (in the case of a rented property) without giving reasonable notice and agreeing it with you. They are entitled to inspect with permission, which you must give provided notice is given. You can choose to be there or not.

Max Power1 · 28-03-2011 11:54am

robd wrote: »

Absolutely 100% untrue. It is completely illegal to change the locks.

The landlord is entitled to a key to the property. He may delegate to the agent to manage this. No one is entitled to enter your home (in the case of a rented property) without giving reasonable notice and agreeing it with you. They are entitled to inspect with permission, which you must give provided notice is given. You can choose to be there or not.

No - you may refuse. hence why its "permission" thats needed and not just "adequate notice"

robd · 28-03-2011 1:41pm

Max Power1 wrote: »

No - you may refuse. hence why its "permission" thats needed and not just "adequate notice"

You may refuse a particular time but you have to consent to an inspection at a mutually agreeable time.

Carawaystick · 29-03-2011 12:34am

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Yeah I'm going to provarocate over this, its ridiculous. Just wanted to double check on here incase there was any general rule that you had to do it. Ireland has some pretty weird tenancy laws so a double check cant hurt! Will keep ye updated on how this plays out.

Invoice the Agency for a months rent - to cover your time to do their feicin job for them...

Chris_5339762 · 16-04-2011 12:11pm

Been lax on this as I've been busy. Here was my response -

Firstly, my apologies for taking time to reply to this matter, I have given it a lot of thought and have decided that I feel my spare key situation is suitable as-is. This is for a number of reasons, which I will outline below.

1) Is the landlord aware that you will be holding a spare copy of his key at all times and that should he no longer use yourselves as an agency that this key will be returned?

2) I would not be entirely comfortable with a copy of the key to my apartment being stored at your offices, presumably with an address attached to it as this, to me, is a security risk. Would my landlord be happy with this arrangement?

3) Given that you have sent this to all your tenants, it would presumably be unhelpful to send nothing but a key in an envelope. This means that some form of address must be provided in the envelope. Sending a key and the address that it opens in an envelope is something I would not be happy doing, at all. My contents insurance would not cover me in the event that I did such a thing.

4) Are your offices manned on a Saturday and Sunday and in the event of a key being lost on those days could you guarantee that a key that a spare could be provided? Were this to be a Monday – Friday service it does not help tenants at weekends.

5) I am not even sure if I would be authorised to issue keys for a property that I do not own to a third party.

However, if you do, as you say, insist on me getting a key cut I would be quite happy to oblige. Given of course, that you would pay me the cost of key-cutting (more than €3 in my experience), a flat rate for my time that I have to spend travelling to the shop, mileage/parking expenses for my car and that you would pick up the key from my apartment at a time convenient to me with proof that you are in-fact a member of DNG lettings. I can of course, deduct this money directly off my rent if it is more convenient.

Also, when I had an apartment inspection with one of your employees a couple of months ago, I specifically requested copies of the pictures that were taken of my possessions during the visit. Although I was assured I would receive these, I never did and would like them by April 30th.

Many thanks,