Kings Inns

Milk & Honey

You might qualify for a third level grant. There is a part time option available. If you cannot afford to do the course, how do you propose to set yourself up in practice?

FreudianSlippers

chops018 wrote: »

hey all,

it's good to see a debate on which is a better profession, but my question was not about this.

as i said i am interested in Kings Inns and want some info about the course, as regard finance, part time job, what the course demands and what the hours are like etc.

IMO you COULD do a part-time job and still pass the course - I just wouldn't recommend it.

Firstly, attendance is compulsory and if you pass below 90% you fail.
Secondly, there is a fair bit of work and preparation that go into each session; if you don't do it you're not only hurting yourself, but screwing up the session for the other 15 people in your group.
The hours aren't too bad in the course itself, you'll either be in an afternoon course of a morning course. IIRC afternoon is from like 11am to 1pm and then from 3pm to 5pm (or something like that).
Obviously this applies to full-time, modular course is totally different and of course with that you'd have no problem working almost full time from what I understand.

oh, and i understand is around €12,000 or thereabouts to attend if you pass the entrance exams, could someone who does not have this as i will be (hopefully) completed my masters be able to avail of financial aid of some sort?

Yes, somewhere around there. I think it was closer to €14,000 when I was there. You'll probably have to factor in another €1,000 for the parking at the Inns as well. As for finance, KI doesn't offer financial aid as far as I know. You'll either need to source a bank loan or the grant Milk & Honey mentioned. Also, you'll need to consider Milk & Honey's query regarding setting up in practice

Milk & Honey wrote: »

You might qualify for a third level grant. There is a part time option available. If you cannot afford to do the course, how do you propose to set yourself up in practice?

chops018

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

IMO you COULD do a part-time job and still pass the course - I just wouldn't recommend it.

Firstly, attendance is compulsory and if you pass below 90% you fail.
Secondly, there is a fair bit of work and preparation that go into each session; if you don't do it you're not only hurting yourself, but screwing up the session for the other 15 people in your group.
The hours aren't too bad in the course itself, you'll either be in an afternoon course of a morning course. IIRC afternoon is from like 11am to 1pm and then from 3pm to 5pm (or something like that).
Obviously this applies to full-time, modular course is totally different and of course with that you'd have no problem working almost full time from what I understand.

Yes, somewhere around there. I think it was closer to €14,000 when I was there. You'll probably have to factor in another €1,000 for the parking at the Inns as well. As for finance, KI doesn't offer financial aid as far as I know. You'll either need to source a bank loan or the grant Milk & Honey mentioned. Also, you'll need to consider Milk & Honey's query regarding setting up in practice

Thanks for the detailed reply and it's good to hear from someone with experience. Although I would really love to do this course and become a Barrister, financially it looks like it's not for me. At least at this point in time.

But hey I'm only 22, I've plenty of time, just concentrate on finishing my Masters (LL.M) first!

paky

NoQuarter wrote: »

Wow, just wow!

you dont have say much to show how thick and ignorant you are

NoQuarter

paky wrote: »

you dont have say much to show how thick and ignorant you are

I know it only took me your first post to realise!

crystalmice

I was looking into Kings myself and my understanding, which may not be correct so anyone who knows better please correct me, was that as a post 3rd level qualification you are able to get a 'masters grant' (thats not what its called but dont know the actual name) to the amount of 6k, or half the course fees, if you are eligible for a full maintenance grant from your local council and have not already done a masters.

also, just to clarify, that would be in lieu of the maintenance grant, not in addition to it.

Tom Young

crystalmice wrote: »

I was looking into Kings myself and my understanding, which may not be correct so anyone who knows better please correct me, was that as a post 3rd level qualification you are able to get a 'masters grant' (thats not what its called but dont know the actual name) to the amount of 6k, or half the course fees, if you are eligible for a full maintenance grant from your local council and have not already done a masters.

also, just to clarify, that would be in lieu of the maintenance grant, not in addition to it.

Be careful here. I am not 100% sure but I have heard instances where such grants are not allowed based on means. I think these were local authority. Do not rely on same being carte blanche available.

crystalmice

Tom Young wrote: »

Be careful here. I am not 100% sure but I have heard instances where such grants are not allowed based on means. I think these were local authority. Do not rely on same being carte blanche available.

Thanks for the correction, I didnt mean to mislead, I read what I posted on a website a while back but cant remember where exactly, It did sound a bit good to be true alright!

legaleagle10

From my research...its the complete opposite, new solicitors are sc*ewed, most of my friends cant get training or work as a solicitor, atleast with Barrister you know what your getting into for the first few years.

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

These days it is probably easier to become a solicitor, and then a barrister?

legaleagle10

Hi Chops, I went through the same dillema and chose Barrister route.

As I said in my last post, from my own experience and friends that are recently qualified as solicitors, alot of them (not all though) cannot get any work or training. My mate works in a company (not law) and she is qualified solicitor doing completely unrelated legal work as she cant get a job.

Atleast with the Barrister route you know you'll probably earn pittance for the first 3 years but, if you're a decent Barrister, the work will come eventually, with being a solicitor in today's market, IMO, i think its much harder and that opinion comes from speaking to experienced solicitors.

I think what it boils down to is the route of all evil- MONEY..but look, you can always get yourself a part time job, the two courses (KI & Blackhall) are both the guts of €13,000, so no difference in price there. Its the options afterwards you have to way up, are you willing to sit in an unrelated law job as a qualified solicitor or go down in the courts being a Barrister earning little or nothing at the start but atleast you are around law? On the up side you said you're 22 PLENTY of time to think about it, and who knows the economy maybe better in 5 years time and you'll still only be 27 and the solicitor route could be back on course

chops018 wrote: »

hey all,

it's good to see a debate on which is a better profession, but my question was not about this.

as i said i am interested in Kings Inns and want some info about the course, as regard finance, part time job, what the course demands and what the hours are like etc.

oh, and i understand is around €12,000 or thereabouts to attend if you pass the entrance exams, could someone who does not have this as i will be (hopefully) completed my masters be able to avail of financial aid of some sort?

Brother Psychosis

kings inns was 12,560 last year, think blackhalls is a bit more expensive. as for solicitor v barrister, a friend of mine is applying for training contracts at t moment and out of twenty odd letters he sent out, he got one response - a four page letter saying why he shouldn't bother becoming a solicitor because theres no work. its the same for a barrister, but the difference is, if you persevere as a barrister, work will eventually come, but solicitors either have to get in with a firm before they can work and absolutely noone is hiring

bedstuybosco

hello all

I was just wondering about when you are "called to the bar" what happens next?

Is there a thing called "deviling". Somebody mentioned to me that in order to practice you have to do it?


Does it have to be done straight away?

Are you still qualiied as a Barrister wihout doing it?

regards

The standard required to pass the bar in Ireland is "fit to practice". From the day you are called to the Bar you are qualified to take your own briefs and act in contentious matters.

In practice a first year devil will spend a year as the pupil (devil) of a more experienced barrister (master) who will help them learn the practicalities of the bar as well as educate them in practical advocacy, drafting and expose them to solicitors and colleagues.

Once "called" a barrister may choose to devil in any given legal year and there is no requirement for when this be done.

Hope that helps.

bedstuybosco

But is there some people who just qualify as barristers yet never practice?

It seems to me it would be quite difficult to "devil" as far as i know you have to do it for free?

This would be particulary difficult for those who do the barrister at law by way of they part time modular. The reason they are doing it part time is probably down to financial constraints and familly reasons. How then could they give up work ... and devil for free?

I suppose its how much you want it and what financial backing you have.

There are people, quite a few of them, who qualify but never practice for all sorts of reasons. I know quite a few people did it to enhance their qualifications for their own workplaces.

I can't speak as to whether or not deviling is "free". That's a matter between each Devil and their Master but, as a general rule, payment is not expected as the overall benefit you gain by doing the work is vastly disproportionate to any payment you may receive in general.

As barristers are all self-employed the alternative is to begin to practice immediately but you'll have no work to do unless you are very lucky and have solicitors willing to brief you straight away. The benefits of a good devil year are immeasurable and making the commitment to do it, though difficult, can be very rewarding.

bedstuybosco

Thanks kayroo

Ive no doubt the deviling is invaluable ...

If one does decide to devil does it have to be in dublin or can it be with another barrister on a circuit elsewhere?

Also does the deviling have to be done straight away or could you leave it a year or 2?

Thanks for the info

Brother Psychosis

i think you can start to devil up to five years after leaving KI.

you have to do a minimum of 100 court days in dublin during the year, which basically means you have to do it in dublin, but you can devil with someone who practices in dublin and somewhere on circuit. most people now do two years, one in dublin and one on the circuit of choice

johnnyskeleton

Brother Psychosis wrote: »

you have to do a minimum of 100 court days in dublin during the year,

Where did you hear that from? I thought the guideline for masters was that they had a minimum of 75 days in court (any court) in a year, but that was no more than a guideline.

Many specialised practitioners wouldn't spend 100 days in court in a year. Some would hardly set foot in court, but would be no less successful.

gene the cow

Hiya, instead of starting a new thread in re to Kings Inns I thought I'd put my query on this relating thread. I am planning to do the entrance exams in August but the cost of Kings Inns in general sometimes freaks me out. In order to focus entirely on the exams I'd like to get the cost of living clear in my head. I was thinking if I could just pay for four nights a weeks accommodation and then return to my home town on Friday evenings to work for the weekend it would be doable, financially. I don't see the point in paying up for an apartment for the nine months when you take away the breaks its more like seven months and I will be travelling home every weekend...am I mad to be looking up hostels and cheap hotels to avoid the lump sums involved in renting?Anyone else out there do/ing something similar?Anyone care to share there experience with renting whilst attending Kings Inns?

Brother Psychosis

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Where did you hear that from?

i know from friends experience that, although the bar council have nothing official, there is a "recommendation" that devils spend at least 100 court days in dublin, but it seems to be enforced in different measures.

as for accommadation, there are people who have made long term agreements with b+b's, worth looking into

Nando99

Hi I'm thinking of applying to Kings Inn but havent studied Jurisprudence or Administration Law in College.Does anyone how I can complete these two subjects or can they be taken while at Kings Inn?..Any help would be greatly appreciated..Thank You!

NoQuarter

You wont be able to apply for this year but it is possible to do those topics by next years application deadline!

Brother Psychosis

Nando99 wrote: »

Hi I'm thinking of applying to Kings Inn but havent studied Jurisprudence or Administration Law in College.Does anyone how I can complete these two subjects or can they be taken while at Kings Inn?..Any help would be greatly appreciated..Thank You!

if you've finished your degree, i know you can apply to take those exams with the kings inns diploma class in march/april and then sit the entrance exams in august, but you'll have to get in touch with them now in order to get it sorted for next year

eamoc

Paky, your real name wouldn't be Lionel Hutz by any chance?