Project Maths INFO please!!

DarkDusk

Hi,
I'm going to be starting 5th year next September and I want to find out more about Project Maths. I will be doing honours maths and keeping it up hopefully. Is PM definetly going ahead in all schools?? It looks bad for me because I'll have no past papers or specialised text book to work on. Out of all subjects, maths is basically all practice and practice again and again and again and if there is no papers to work on how am I supposed to get a good result?? Maybe I'm wrong with some of this but could ye fill me in on it a bit??

Thanks,
James.

magicianz

Yes, next year will be the first year of project maths being phased in
department will publish sample papers for it, and a year of students will already have done the paper by the time you will do it so there is no need to worry in that respect books will more than likely be published for next year, and definately for your sixth year. Until then, any other book is perfectly fine as project maths for you will still involve a fair deal of the old course

If you did well in junior cert maths then i would say that you would be perfectly capable of doing well in project maths

DarkDusk

Thanks for your reply. I also heard that there was different strands for the course with 1 coming out each year or something. Does that mean some of the exam will be project maths based and the rest normal??.. I really hope a textbook does come out for it!

rainbowtrout

Project Maths has already started all over the country. It's being taught to first years this year for Junior Cert and to fifth years for Leaving Cert. Leaving Cert 2012 will be the first year it will be examined nationally at LC Level. You have no need to worry. You will have the same access to books and exam papers as everyone else.

Also Project Maths has already been examined in the 2010 Leaving Cert and will be again in 2011 for the 24 schools who have been piloting the course for the past couple of years.

http://www.projectmaths.ie/overview/

The exam papers for Project Maths from 2010 are available on examinations.ie

Currently it's only paper two that is different, in another couple of years both paper 1 and paper 2 will have changed.

DarkDusk

Thanks, I understand it more now.

James.

Chuchoter

I still don't know what a strand is, but this years fifth years have most of paper 2 changed and next year I think you will have other stuff changed.

Its really annoying they have not provided any sample papers, but judging by the stuff in the book so far its actually not too bad, just wordy.

DarkDusk

crayolastereo wrote: »

but judging by the stuff in the book so far its actually not too bad, just wordy.

When you say "book", do you mean there is a book out already??

rainbowtrout

crayolastereo wrote: »

I still don't know what a strand is, but this years fifth years have most of paper 2 changed and next year I think you will have other stuff changed.

Its really annoying they have not provided any sample papers, but judging by the stuff in the book so far its actually not too bad, just wordy.

There are sample papers on the project maths website and paper two was examined in the 2010 Leaving Cert. It's under Maths on examinations.ie past papers.

Chuchoter

DarkDusk wrote: »

When you say "book", do you mean there is a book out already??

Concise maths published a project maths supplement which is all the new stuff.

jumpguy

2010 project maths papers are out, I think.

There's sample papers.
You'll get 2011 PM papers.
And 2012.

So, you've got 4 at the very least, which isn't too bad tbh.

DarkDusk

Still if you compare that to 13-14 years of previous papers for the original maths course.. You're still at a disadvantage.. But heck, if it's going to be easier I can't complain too much!

Slow Show

Every new syllabus change requires there to be the first few years, so it might as well be us, and I think they're generally quite easy for the first few years,(I swear, CSPE has gotten harder over the years) AND it's meant to be an easier course and there might be bonus points for it, just take it all in your stride tbh, it's what I'm doing and I'm gonna be doing the LC in 2013 too.

rainbowtrout

:cool:

DarkDusk wrote: »

Still if you compare that to 13-14 years of previous papers for the original maths course.. You're still at a disadvantage.. But heck, if it's going to be easier I can't complain too much!

I don't see how?? Everyone else is in the same boat. It's not like every other student in the country has access to a bunch of past papers for project maths and you don't.

DarkDusk

Yes, but if you compare to 2-3 years before, people have an advantage. If maths is mostly based on practice and if you lack the ways to do so, then you are at a disadvantage.

DarkDusk

Slow Show wrote: »

Every new syllabus change requires there to be the first few years, so it might as well be us, and I think they're generally quite easy for the first few years,(I swear, CSPE has gotten harder over the years) AND it's meant to be an easier course and there might be bonus points for it, just take it all in your stride tbh, it's what I'm doing and I'm gonna be doing the LC in 2013 too.

I say that will happen. They're hardly going to put up weird, abstract questions that people haven't seen before and mark them harshly!

jumpguy

DarkDusk wrote: »

Yes, but if you compare to 2-3 years before, people have an advantage. If maths is mostly based on practice and if you lack the ways to do so, then you are at a disadvantage.

How do people have an advantage? If there's only 4 project maths papers available, everyone will only have those 4 papers to practice with, it's a level playing field either way.

rainbowtrout

DarkDusk wrote: »

Yes, but if you compare to 2-3 years before, people have an advantage. If maths is mostly based on practice and if you lack the ways to do so, then you are at a disadvantage.

And if you lack the practice on papers because there are only a few available so will everybody else doing the same course and paper as you.

You are not competing against a group of students who have been doing PM for a number of years and you are only new to the game. Everyone is in the same boat.

The Junior Cert as an exam came in to being in 1992. The last year the Inter Cert was examined was 1991. I did my Junior Cert in 1994. Going by your argument I was at a disadvantage in all my subjects because I only had two past papers to go on. So did everyone else sitting the Junior Cert in 1994. We were all equal.

DarkDusk

I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm comparing people doing PM to people that did the original course. I'm arguing whether or not Project Maths is a good thing or not to bring into the education system.

rainbowtrout

DarkDusk wrote: »

I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm comparing people doing PM to people that did the original course. I'm arguing whether or not Project Maths is a good thing or not to bring into the education system.

Well it depends on what you want to use it for. I'm studying part time at the moment for a Maths and Stats degree and an awful lot of the new stuff that is in the PM course is the foundation for what I'm studying, so in that sense I think it's a good thing. I do have my reservations about the way some of the new stuff is being taught, but only time will tell there.

On the other hand you could argue that courses (and not just maths) are changing all the time. When I did my LC, I did the old Biology course where there were entire chapters in my book on the cockroach, the liverfluke, the structure and life cycle of seaweed(!), the earthworm, the amoeba and a few other things that I've managed to block from memory.

When the new course came in I'm sure there were teachers who would have argued that the new course was rubbish and that the old course was better. However the old course didn't contain most of the information on genetics that is on the current syllabus.

I don't think students are any worse off for having to learn in detail about genetics and genetic engineering etc rather than the life cycle of Fucus vesiculosis.

Perhaps it will be the same for maths. So many students already complain 'Why do we have to do _______ (insert random maths topic here) ? It's pointless and I'll never need to use it. Maybe now they will learn some maths that they will use.

Count yourself lucky that the syllabus is being updated. I teach agricultural science and the syllabus is 42 years old.

Ciara_maire_

I failed my maths mock for LC. I'm worried about this whole project maths stuff. If I fail it for the real thing I'm ****ed!
Is there anything I could study that will definitely come up? does anyone know? Any help would be appreciated.

LilMissCiara

Ciara_maire_ wrote: »

I failed my maths mock for LC. I'm worried about this whole project maths stuff. If I fail it for the real thing I'm ****ed!
Is there anything I could study that will definitely come up? does anyone know? Any help would be appreciated.

You're in leaving cert yeah...? We don't do Project Maths then!

ciara95

Dont mean to go off topic, but since this is a maths thread:
What grade in HL JC maths do you think you need to do well/be able for HL Maths for LC?

magicianz

The marks for every leaving cert paper are just ranking systems. You aren't judged on the marks recieved by previous years, its by your performance relative to the people doing it in the same year as you. They can change where the marks are allocated on every part on the paper, so if theres a question very few people are getting right, the marks for that will be lowered and the marks for the basic starting of it will be raised. Thats why you always write down something in an exam

Basically, if theres been between 7 and 10 percent of people getting a's in maths for the last decade, the marks will be adjusted so that the same percentage of people get a's. That is how the leaving cert is marked for the most part, though not as much in languages, only comprehensions and aurals are changed in languages

Ciara_maire_

Actually, There are 24 schools that do Project Maths at Leaving cert level. I'm one of them. Just wanted to know if anyone had any more info on it.

nommm

ciara95 wrote: »

Dont mean to go off topic, but since this is a maths thread:
What grade in HL JC maths do you think you need to do well/be able for HL Maths for LC?

I got an A in the JC and I'm struggling at the moment. It could be different with PM though.

nommm

Ciara_maire_ wrote: »

I failed my maths mock for LC. I'm worried about this whole project maths stuff. If I fail it for the real thing I'm ****ed!
Is there anything I could study that will definitely come up? does anyone know? Any help would be appreciated.

Last year they were practically giving away marks to the PM students to make the course look good so you'll probably get more marks in the real thing.

Will the whole course not come up?

Ciara_maire_

nommm wrote: »

Last year they were practically giving away marks to the PM students to make the course look good so you'll probably get more marks in the real thing.

Will the whole course not come up?

Oh okay that sounds good! The mocks were really difficult apparently it's not going to be like that for the real thing though. fingers crossed!
The thing is we have no past papers or even a syllabus to go by. So I don't know if everything will come up or if they'll leave out parts.

MathsManiac

Ciara_maire_ wrote: »

Oh okay that sounds good! The mocks were really difficult apparently it's not going to be like that for the real thing though. fingers crossed!
The thing is we have no past papers or even a syllabus to go by. So I don't know if everything will come up or if they'll leave out parts.

You DO have a syllabus to go by. You can find it here:
http://www.ncca.ie/en/Curriculum_and_Assessment/Post-Primary_Education/Project_Maths/Syllabuses_and_Assessment/PM_SA_24_Schools.html

And you have the sample papers issued by the SEC, here:
http://www.examinations.ie/index.php?l=en&mc=sc&sc=ma

Good luck!

Ciara_maire_

MathsManiac wrote: »

You DO have a syllabus to go by. You can find it here:
http://www.ncca.ie/en/Curriculum_and_Assessment/Post-Primary_Education/Project_Maths/Syllabuses_and_Assessment/PM_SA_24_Schools.html

And you have the sample papers issued by the SEC, here:
http://www.examinations.ie/index.php?l=en&mc=sc&sc=ma

Good luck!

Thank you!

evolving_doors

DarkDusk wrote: »

Yes, but if you compare to 2-3 years before, people have an advantage. If maths is mostly based on practice and if you lack the ways to do so, then you are at a disadvantage.

Herein lies the reason why the maths course is changing,, namely rote learning and doing the practice with the papers to predict the usual questions that have come up over the last few years

All teachers doing training on the new project maths course are advised time and time again to consult the "syllabus" and not have the sample papers as the principal point of reference.

It is up to the teacher to train students in how to critically think about problems AND justify their answers.

However I will say that teachers correcting a lot of these PM "ambiguous" questions for the JC and LC will be looking very pale after a summer's worth of arguing with their peers and seniors.

MegGustaa

DarkDusk wrote: »

Hi,
I'm going to be starting 5th year next September and I want to find out more about Project Maths. I will be doing honours maths and keeping it up hopefully. Is PM definetly going ahead in all schools?? It looks bad for me because I'll have no past papers or specialised text book to work on. Out of all subjects, maths is basically all practice and practice again and again and again and if there is no papers to work on how am I supposed to get a good result?? Maybe I'm wrong with some of this but could ye fill me in on it a bit??

Thanks,
James.

Hate dragging old topics back but I can fill you in on the situation for the 2013 LC.

I just did TY. It's compulsory in my school so we all started LC Maths this year. We've covered Strand 1 (Stats and Probability) nearly completely, along with Complex Numbers (it was sh** doing it in TY because before PM you wouldn't do it til Mid 5th in my school!). We had to follow a different course to years before us because normally in TY we'd do a lot of the things that are being changed for the 13 LC but not the 12, so the resources weren't available when we started!

Anyway, we have a completely new Paper Two and partially changed Paper One. The HL books for Strands 1&2 (We use Concise Maths 4&5 PM Supplement) have been out since January, even though we were told they'd be out in the Autumn. One can assume the same will be the case with the next batch of Supplements (we need another for strands 3&4, not sure if 1-4 will be available as one book however). Ugh it's just a mess I'll have 4 books by the time June 2013 comes!

In terms of the content, it's not terrible. Strand 1 is quite wordy and there's way more on Stats and Prob than there ever was before! The stats chapter is 115 pages long - it's like a book in itself! But it's no harder or easier than the old course, just different.

I wouldn't worry too much. We'll all be in the same boat because we'll all have the same resources like sample papers etc available to us. It's an unfortunate place to be in, the "guinea pigs" but someone has to do it!

Wish we'd at least done PM for the JC though...huge advantage! They're doing half the probability and statistics we had to learn from scratch on the JC now >.<