Cheap Chinese Chinarello

Lumen

wevergo wrote: »

@Lumen: exactly the same seatstay. It looks different because of the paintjob.

Ah right, I misrecognised that bit of NDS seatstay as part of the driveside.

wevergo

Lemag wrote: »

How's about you pop on to some of the other , wevergo? My only interest in this now is seeing spyderski's Chin' built up and finding out what he thinks about it.

How's about you pop on to some of the other threads here. Lemag?
You have more rights than me ?

Btw: show me your Chinarello......

Lemag

wevergo wrote: »

How's about you pop on to some of the other threads here. Lemag?
You have more rights than me ?

I have done so. I've even taken it a step further on occasions and started a few threads. Here and here for example. You could follow suit with a 'carbon frame knock-off group buy' thread

Lemag

wevergo wrote: »

Btw: show me your Chinarello......

I have a Chinyon (sic).

kayaksurfbum

I got a frame+fork from an Chinese shop back in Feb. It was on the expensive side of the frames they sell, cost more then the chinarellos ye speak of.
The frame is identical to the cube litening with the integrated seat stay. Iv had to two of them side by side, the frame is the same in every way. Except price!

Hail 2 Da Thief

kayaksurfbum wrote: »

Iv had to two of them side by side, the frame is the same in every way. Except price, paint job & warranty!

FYP

Hail 2 Da Thief

wevergo wrote: »

You can buy the frame yourself: $200-$500 maximum from several providers.

Have you bought one of these frames? Where have you seen it on sale for $200?

wevergo

Hail 2 Da Thief wrote: »

Have you bought one of these frames? Where have you seen it on sale for $200?

http://topridecomp.en.alibaba.com/product/384144580-209686032/carbon_bike_frame_TP_R808.html

C3PO

kayaksurfbum wrote: »

The frame is identical to the cube litening with the integrated seat stay. Iv had to two of them side by side, the frame is the same in every way. Except price!

Surely you mean it looks the same ...... in exactly the same way as a knock off Gucci handbag looks the same?

wevergo

RPL1 wrote: »

Surely you mean it looks the same ...... in exactly the same way as a knock off Gucci handbag looks the same?

Do your research and find out they are the same OEM frames.
Ore judge without factual knowledge.
Google and find out.:)




One guy from a forum painted it like a Cube:

C3PO

wevergo wrote: »

Do your research and find out they are the same OEM frames.
Ore judge without factual knowledge.
Google and find out

One guy from a forum painted it like a Cube:

What does that prove .... other than someone has used a Cube frame as a template for a cheap replica?
I'd be very interested to see some "actual" evidence that these frames are Cube frames without the paint! Until then I'm afraid i justy don't believe it!

macken04

I have ordered a hongfu frame, not because I want to make it look like a brand name bike, or because I cant afford another (planetx would cost 200 more), but because I want something different. Yes I will save money over a similar spec branded frame, however, I would in no way attempt to make it look like something it is not. To do so is IMO is sad, the frame is bare, no design, untouched, why not make it your own instead of something its not. Like a cube or cervelo or whatever else you can get a template of.

How many others are going to pass by with a macken branded frame???

kayaksurfbum

macken04 wrote: »

I have ordered a hongfu frame, not because I want to make it look like a brand name bike, or because I cant afford another (planetx would cost 200 more), but because I want something different. Yes I will save money over a similar spec branded frame, however, I would in no way attempt to make it look like something it is not. To do so is IMO is sad, the frame is bare, no design, untouched, why not make it your own instead of something its not. Like a cube or cervelo or whatever else you can get a template of.

How many others are going to pass my with a macken branded frame???

Iv done the same, no stickers or branding.

Lumen

wevergo wrote: »

One guy from a forum painted it like a Cube

Cube Ritening?

dited

wevergo wrote: »

the picture of the replica bike is mine.
Somebody used it in this forum.


The second picture: my first Chinarello, external cable routing.

wevergo wrote: »

One guy from a forum painted it like a Cube:

Looks like you have remarkably similar tastes in interior decoration to the guy who owns the Chube, as well as both appreciating Chinese knock-offs

macken04

for the price that guy has spent on those 3 bikes he could have had his pick of one legit model.

Squidgy Black

Don't think I'd be confident riding an un-certified bike, I mean, what kind of comeback would you have if the frame was to snap and you get dragged under traffic etc?

kayaksurfbum

stetyrrell wrote: »

what kind of comeback would you have if the frame was to snap and you get dragged under traffic etc?

What would trek or giant do if you got dragged under traffic??? Pay your VHI? i think not.

Lemag

stetyrrell wrote: »

Don't think I'd be confident riding an un-certified bike, I mean, what kind of comeback would you have if the frame was to snap and you get dragged under traffic etc?

Come back from the dead?

Squidgy Black

kayaksurfbum wrote: »

What would trek or giant do if you got dragged under traffic??? Pay your VHI? i think not.

Like it'd be easier to file a lawsuit against a large company for faults of their products that were the main cause of the death compared to some asian website who probably don't have an easily traceable address and they products would've put you at risk more.

Anyways you all know what I meant :P

Hail 2 Da Thief

kayaksurfbum wrote: »

What would trek or giant do if you got dragged under traffic??? Pay your VHI? i think not.

Maybe not, but you would have a company you could file a lawsuit against.

wevergo

macken04 wrote: »

for the price that guy has spent on those 3 bikes he could have had his pick of one legit model.

The fact is I 'v sold my brandname bikes because I experience no differece with the Chinarellos.
My first Chinarello I bought years ago (frame FM001) and I was amazed at the quality and price.
My first fake Pinarello is the lightest bike ever ridden:7,2 kg (15.8 lbs), and very stiff and solid.
As I told I sold my brandnamebikes Trek Madone 5.2 weak bracket, Wilier Izoard nothing special, Cube Agree GTS Pro very similar to driving a Chinarello, because they have no value.
It is not poverty but these are mine experiences.
The frames don't brake, are good quality and excellent driving, 18 months garantee, traceable address for over four years, good/correct communication with the seller.
These are my experiences over several years.:)

You can believe it ore not, slash me, I don't mind.
But do not judge ore reply if you do not have experience with it because that convinces nobody.

DirkVoodoo

wevergo wrote: »

The fact is I 'v sold my brandname bikes because I experience no differece with the Chinarellos.
My first Chinarello I bought years ago (frame FM001) and I was amazed at the quality and price.
My first fake Pinarello is the lightest bike ever ridden:7,2 kg (15.8 lbs), and very stiff and solid.
As I told I sold my brandnamebikes Trek Madone 5.2 weak bracket, Wilier Izoard nothing special, Cube Agree GTS Pro very similar to driving a Chinarello, because they have no value.
It is not poverty but these are mine experiences.
The frames don't brake, are good quality and excellent driving.
These are my experiences over several years.:)

You can believe it ore not, slash me, I don't mind.
But do not judge ore reply if you do not have experience with it because that convinces nobody.

Wait a sec, are you saying that it's not just a case of these bikes being equal to the no name bikes, they are in fact superior? Wow, I'm sold, sign me up!

I always knew something was slowing me down, now I know it's my "brand name" bike, I feel like such a fool.

Have you ever thought about marketing these frames? Maybe create a brand name? I mean, you seem great at convincing people that these bikes are superior, all you need is a catch, maybe "the same bike ridden by wevergo" or something.

Lemag

wevergo wrote: »

You can believe it ore not, slash me, I don't mind.
But do not judge ore reply if you do not have experience with it because that convinces nobody.

I aint doubting you wevergo but when it comes to the big bucks one isn't always only paying for a brand name but also for very subtle aspects regarding design/materials/engineering. These might not be noticable to the naked eye and may not even be very noticeable when in the saddle. Your cycling of them hardly qualifies as a rigorous scientific analysis.

Having said that, that you are very happy with them is reassuring should one decide to follow you down the Chinarello route, I guess.

Btw, how much did the paint jobs cost?

wevergo

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Wait a sec, are you saying that it's not just a case of these bikes being equal to the no name bikes, they are in fact superior? Wow, I'm sold, sign me up!

I always knew something was slowing me down, now I know it's my "brand name" bike, I feel like such a fool.

Have you ever thought about marketing these frames? Maybe create a brand name? I mean, you seem great at convincing people that these bikes are superior, all you need is a catch, maybe "the same bike ridden by wevergo" or something.

pffffff, that happens for years by many providers.............READ PAGE 4.
You walk behind the reality.

Lumen

These knock-off frames represent a sort of freeloading. Without the investment by the big name companies there wouldn't be the designs to copy. However, the people in the market for a €500 knock-off are not potential Pinarello customers anyway, so this activity probably does more damage to Planet-X and Ribble than it does to Pinarello.

I'm all for it - it goes a small way to keeping an exceptionally bull****ty industry honest. This is the industry that attempts to sell us ceramic bearings because they're rounder than steel ones, and justifies "Made in Italy" stickers based solely on amount of profit margin taken by the European brand owner.

If people want to take the "risk" of an unwarrantied frame killing them, good luck to them. I think it probably makes shag all difference as crashes cause frame breakage rather than the other way round.

DirkVoodoo

Lumen wrote: »

If people want to take the "risk" of an unwarrantied frame killing them, good luck to them. I think it probably makes shag all difference as crashes cause frame breakage rather than the other way round.

What level of quality control exists with these frames though? Hey, I'm not against it all (aside from the painting of the frame to make it look like a brand name one), I just have a suspicion that if Pinarello reject a batch of frames, even if it is just for cosmetic damage, rather than something more serious, they probably find their way onto ebay. That would worry me. Perhaps it's blatant paranoia, but I can't see a lot of these frames being put through the same rigorous testing and quality control by these smaller resellers.

I'm happy to buy a Ralph Lauren shirt from an outlet store because it's missing a few threads, or buy a refurbished laptop from the dell outlet store...not so happy when it comes to something that I'd be riding around wicklow.

DirkVoodoo

wevergo wrote: »

You walk behind the reality.

Yeah, I hear that a lot. Story of my life...

Lumen

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Perhaps it's blatant paranoia, but I can't see a lot of these frames being put through the same rigorous testing and quality control by these smaller resellers.

What rigorous testing and quality control? There are plenty of stories of cracked high end frames, though none of those caused a crash.

If people cared about mechanical failures causing crashes, they wouldn't run weight weenie seatposts.

I know two people who have crashed seriously as a consequence of seatpost failure, and one of those was standard issue on a top-end Cervelo. I bet Cervelo didn't pay his medical costs.

morana

I suppose bottom line is I am an A3 I need a new bike will I spend a few grand ( thats a few thousand euros the price of a family holiday or liposuction!) for a new frame or go with one of these. a new pinarello wont make me faster. I will take the chance. as I have said and will always say the price of most bike stuff is far too expensive so these cheaper frames are a way forward for some of us poorer members of the forum.

I got a shogun alu frame years ago for IR£150 and it was a great bike. after 3 years it broke but that was 3 times cheaper than alu frames back then so I thought it was value for money.

Its your choice.

macken04

Firstly, IMO claims that these frame will break are somewhat unfounded and no evidence exists suggesting they are, in any way, prone to failing. Regarding certification, hong-fu frames are certified by a Swiss company, to what degree this is stringent I cannot answer.

Secondly these frames in a sense represent an issue with currency valuation. If the Chinese government allowed their currency to gain a realistic market value versus the USD these frames would not be so cheap. Add a 100usd on to the cost and now your better off with a canyon or planet-x money wise.

Thirdly even though I have purchased one, I do not believe it is possible they are better than high-end frames. Primely because if they were, in any measure of performance,better than high-end frames the majority of well informed members on this form would ride them as opposed to their high-end frames.

Most importantly for my was the fact that I get a product, which my research gives me the impression is excellent value for money. To top this off through my own creativity I will hopefully have a bike unique to me only, not one that looks somewhat like a cube, but the colors are slightly off and writing not exactly the correct font.

Honestly if one wanted the cube why not buy it? Will cost about 350 euro more

Just my 2cents

Plastik

What would be an all-in cost of one of these frames purchased and built up with SRAM Rival/105/Ultegra plus wheels, as a matter of interest? What is the price difference to the branded frame?

Lemag

Plastik wrote: »

What would be an all-in cost of one of these frames purchased and built up with SRAM Rival/105/Ultegra plus wheels, as a matter of interest? What is the price difference to the branded frame?

Here you go

macken04

mine is 1050 with rival and akisum wheels

Lemag

macken04 wrote: »

mine is 1050 with rival and akisum wheels

Have you bought/calculated for the bars, seatpost, stem, saddle etc.?

DirkVoodoo

Lumen wrote: »

What rigorous testing and quality control? There are plenty of stories of cracked high end frames, though none of those caused a crash.

This kind of stuff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrjId0-K-Ts

Lumen

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

This kind of stuff

Awesome. Maybe that explains why Pinarellos are so heavy. They certainly know their customers:



I still prefer small, slightly oriental chap with hammer.

macken04

Lemag wrote: »

Have you bought/calculated for the bars, seatpost, stem, saddle etc.?

yup all in it, I tell a small lie the saddle was bought for €35 on here.

DirkVoodoo

AstraMonti

Lumen wrote: »

I still prefer small, slightly oriental chap with hammer.

Laughed very much with the first comment there:

This video was very informative, as I recently crashed my bike into a pile of hammers and was not quite sure if it was safe to continue riding it.

Chips Lovell

After reviewing this thread I've decided to lock it.

Boards rules forbid the discussion/advocacy of illegal activities. Unfortunately, a lot of this thread went down the path of promoting counterfeit frames. Hence the decision to lock the thread.

I should clarify a few points:

• The issue is not unbranded frames from China or elsewhere in Asia,
• Nor is it unbranded frames that are bought and branded by some bike companies,
• It is about counterfeit frames, i.e. frames manufactured and painted to look like another company's products.

Thanks. My apologies to anyone who wished to continue the discussion.