New Entrant to Dairy Farming

its baltic

Guys,

Just wondering would anyone know where is the best place find information on the feasibility of entering dairy farming in Ireland in the next few years.

Farm currently has sucklers(about 40) and producing weanlings to be sold.

I would be looking to take over farm in the next few years and would see maybe dairy farming as the only solution to provide a full time income from the acreage that we have. approx 70 acres in one lot. good grass land.

Any information/opinions appreciated

case 956

i Dont no myself but try the department of agriculture website or macra. I in the same situation farming sucklers and selling bull weanlings. Love ta get in2 milk wen i finish my apprenticeship in 2013

Finno59

You'l need to get all equipment needed , like milking machine , build parlour , dairy etc, 70 acres you could start with 40 and add a few as time goes on, there should be a lot of grants,
It is time consuming you must milk them every morning and every evening, - The novelty soon wears off
Fresians would be your safest bet to start.

case 956

Finno59 wrote: »

You'l need to get all equipment needed , like milking machine , build parlour , dairy etc, 70 acres you could start with 40 and add a few as time goes on, there should be a lot of grants,
It is time consuming you must milk them every morning and every evening, - The novelty soon wears off
Fresians would be your safest bet to start.

I no i do relief milking for lads and also worked on a dairy farm during my 3 month replacement when doing my green Cert and loved every minute of the milking. i have 90 grazing of which sum os heavy but in the process of fraining and reseeding the farm any idea at the number of cows i cud carry?? all help appreciated

stanflt

case 956 wrote: »

I no i do relief milking for lads and also worked on a dairy farm during my 3 month replacement when doing my green Cert and loved every minute of the milking. i have 90 grazing of which sum os heavy but in the process of fraining and reseeding the farm any idea at the number of cows i cud carry?? all help appreciated

ive 67acres on the grazing platform-can milk 120comfortly-herd avg is 1850gal

super land

Finno59

case 956 wrote: »

I no i do relief milking for lads and also worked on a dairy farm during my 3 month replacement when doing my green Cert and loved every minute of the milking. i have 90 grazing of which sum os heavy but in the process of fraining and reseeding the farm any idea at the number of cows i cud carry?? all help appreciated

Well if you think you could carry 100 , do with 80 depending on land and location , they'l give as much milk , how many acres?

case 956

Finno59 wrote: »

Well if you think you could carry 100 , do with 80 depending on land , they'l give as much milk , how many acres?

Have 90 grazing acres in the process of reseeding it and draining the Heavy land. the only downfall s the expense of starting up building parlour, Cubicles. I would prob carry 80 and c how i get on with dem and alll goes wel stock higher.

Finno59

case 956 wrote: »

Have 90 grazing acres in the process of reseeding it and draining the Heavy land. the only downfall s the expense of starting up building parlour, Cubicles. I would prob carry 80 and c how i get on with dem and alll goes wel stock higher.

That sounds ok , Make sure you check for grants tho , they should help you along for the parlour and things

case 956

Finno59 wrote: »

That sounds ok , Make sure you check for grants tho , they should help you along for the parlour and things

i only 21 and the parents all 4 me getting in2 milk do u no s der grants available for new entrants?????????

F.D

case 956 wrote: »

i only 21 and the parents all 4 me getting in2 milk do u no s der grants available for new entrants?????????

your lucky your parents are behind you, i'm sure there's other prople here that have felt like ther are/were beating a dead horse like myself to the point of leaving it to them and getting the hell away from it,
it will make a big difference no matter what you do

benjydagg

Lads, the days of grants for buildings are gone for ever. FACT..
:cool: You might be eligible for 40% of €40,000 for milking machine and 40% of €25,000 for bulk tank for NEW ENTRANTS ONLY. I would suggest going for good second hand equipment.

Finno59 wrote: »

That sounds ok , Make sure you check for grants tho , they should help you along for the parlour and things

case 956

benjydagg wrote: »

Lads, the days of grants for buildings are gone for ever. FACT..
:cool: You might be eligible for 40% of €40,000 for milking machine and 40% of €25,000 for bulk tank for NEW ENTRANTS ONLY. I would suggest going for good second hand equipment.

talking about s/h equipment what make of parlour is best to go for and how old of a parlour would you buy

keep going

first thing to do when you are going buying a parlour is find a someone who knows their stuff.if p-ossible some one with no ties to a company.some people buy second hand parlours and find you are only using clusters,pulsation and maybe jars and pumps. and thats a big maybe now adays with people going for bigger parlours .that said there is value out there you just got to know your stuff.as regards new parlours its abit like tractors people have their own preferences but like tractors the same parts turn up in different makes.my list would go parlour first, cows ,fence/tracks,water, reseed ,and lastly housing.reseeding programm can double as winter housing for a couple of years,be prepared to have NO MONEY for a few years because you will have serious pull on cash flow but on the plus side you could be putting good assets together

benjydagg

I can't help you with that. I was involved with grant aid in FWM and DHS schemes, and i only ever milked cows on my 'farm training' for 3 months way back in the eighties.I am considering my options for the next generation of farmers, my daughters..

case 956 wrote: »

talking about s/h equipment what make of parlour is best to go for and how old of a parlour would you buy

PMU

stanflt wrote: »

ive 67acres on the grazing platform-can milk 120comfortly-herd avg is 1850gal

super land

as well as grass,what do u feed the cows for that yield?
pat

cows123

ill give you one tip. Dont do it. Its time consuming and the money isnt fair for the amount of labour and work put in.

cjpm

cows123 wrote: »

ill give you one tip. Dont do it. Its time consuming and the money isnt fair for the amount of labour and work put in.

Couldn't agree more.

Other farmers think that the dairy lads are the only fellas making a few pound. Jeez it's a hard won few quid. Theres an old saying, "Better be idle than a busy fool"

If you've the right set-up and the best stock, theres good money to be made from beef. Especially when you consider the hours involved vs the lads milking. Take some of the management practices of the dairy farmers, ie paddocks etc and emply them in your own set up. You'll see that the top beef farmers are already at it.

I'd say any fella that gets into mountains of debt starting in dairying in order to hopefully make a profit milking cows in 5-10 years is crazy.

John_F

benjydagg wrote: »

Lads, the days of grants for buildings are gone for ever. FACT..
:cool: You might be eligible for 40% of €40,000 for milking machine and 40% of €25,000 for bulk tank for NEW ENTRANTS ONLY. I would suggest going for good second hand equipment.

really??

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/farmingschemesandpayments/farmbuildings/dairyequipmentscheme/DESSelectionCriteriaFinal040311.pdf

only 30 marks extra if your new entrant than if you bought quota, and how many will there be most new entrants i.e. those that get 40k gal is 70 as far as i know and any other new entrant must buy quota giving them 120 marks.




a v v v v v high amount of capital required to start up dairying and money is not as easy to make as it seems, but if you have cash, land and a drive inside you to look after cows and put cows number 1 or 2 (after the wife haha) then go for it

whelan1

milking cows is really demanding and extremely hard to do when you have young kids , you have no life... go to a football game , you have to be back to milk , bring the kids anywhere you have to be back ... go out of a night , you have to be up early . Make plans to go somewhere and all of a sudden you have asick cow or even worse plan to have christmas day with your family and there's bloody snow to deal with

F.D

cjpm wrote: »

Couldn't agree more.

Other farmers think that the dairy lads are the only fellas making a few pound. Jeez it's a hard won few quid. Theres an old saying, "Better be idle than a busy fool"

If you've the right set-up and the best stock, theres good money to be made from beef. Especially when you consider the hours involved vs the lads milking. Take some of the management practices of the dairy farmers, ie paddocks etc and emply them in your own set up. You'll see that the top beef farmers are already at it.

I'd say any fella that gets into mountains of debt starting in dairying in order to hopefully make a profit milking cows in 5-10 years is crazy.

SO how many beef farmers like myself have off farm jobs because there's not even enough margin in it to make a living when prices are bad,
also how many beef farmers would survive if there was no sfp? milking cows is a full days work, granted, but at least it is a full days work with some chance of having a wage if the out goings in managed
i sometimes think i'm the busy fool the dairy farmers around me dont work on a sunday once the milking is done they actually have a few hours off i'm the clown doing all the work on a sunday because i'm working during the week, i do enjoy it but i wish it was viable enough to give up the day job

Tipp Man

Lads n ladies i have a question. We haven't really been paying much attention to this side of things so just wanted somebody to clarify

Can a young entrant lease a current dairy farm and get the free 40k gallons also??

So say lease a 100 acre place currently milking 50 cows - and then get the free milk??

Or does the new entrant have to start from a non dairy base??

John_F

Tipp Man wrote: »

Lads n ladies i have a question. We haven't really been paying much attention to this side of things so just wanted somebody to clarify

Can a young entrant lease a current dairy farm and get the free 40k gallons also??

So say lease a 100 acre place currently milking 50 cows - and then get the free milk??

Or does the new entrant have to start from a non dairy base??

im all links this morning http://www.greenfielddairy.ie/files/uploads/PDF/Detailed%20Rules%20-%20New%20Entrants%202010.pdf

In order to be eligible for consideration under either of the categories outlined in
Paragraph 3, each applicant must:
 satisfy the education and training qualifications as outlined in Annex I. A copy of
the relevant documentation must be submitted with the application.
 have/will have a holding comprised of lands owned and/or leased by him or
her.
 have/will have his/her own separate independent herd number in which the dairy
animals are/will be registered.
 have his/her own separate milking and milk storage facilities situated on his/her
holding.
 submit a 5 year business plan addressing the following issues:
(i) Audit of current resources
(ii) Capital expenditure
(iii) Income and expenditure
(iv) Stock flow
(v) Source and application of funds for each year of the plan.
The applicant is required to submit, with his/her Business Plan, a map of the holding
on which the quota is or will be produced, and the legal documentation regarding
ownership of lands, or in the case of leased lands, the documentation which
effected the land transfer of the holding to him/her. The map must clearly identify
the milking and milk storage facilities that are or will be used.
It should be noted that satisfying the eligibility criteria does not in itself qualify an
applicant for approval. A rigorous assessment will be carried out to establish the
extent to which each applicant can demonstrate a real and long-term commitment to
dairying.

cjpm

F.D wrote: »

SO how many beef farmers like myself have off farm jobs because there's not even enough margin in it to make a living when prices are bad,
also how many beef farmers would survive if there was no sfp? milking cows is a full days work, granted, but at least it is a full days work with some chance of having a wage if the out goings in managed
i sometimes think i'm the busy fool the dairy farmers around me dont work on a sunday once the milking is done they actually have a few hours off i'm the clown doing all the work on a sunday because i'm working during the week, i do enjoy it but i wish it was viable enough to give up the day job

Ok I understand fully about what your saying, but you're not seeing my point. Dairy farmers have had bad years too, and will again too in years to come. And I know too how tough beef farmers find it to make a living too.


My point that if a person has enough quality land to set up a viable dairy operation, maybe they should shouldn't get carried away about setting up a dairy operation before doing their sums in massive detail.

The set up costs are huge, buildings, stock, machinery, reseeding, water, roadways etc etc.
Who could finance this?? Not many without heading for a loan..
Who'll give them a loan?? None of the irish banks..
What kind of interest will they be paying?? Cheap credit is gone.
What will be the milk price in 5 years?? What if it's at 2009 prices...

:(Now imagine falling behind in repayments and having the bank auctioning off a family farm. Not nice. But it's a risk fellas will take.:(

Maybe in the long run, after considering the hours that they worked and the interest repayments that they'd paid to the bank, they'd have been better off concentrating on their beef business.

Just my opinion. And I well aware how tough it is for beef farmers, and guys on marginal land to make money .

keep going

have to agree about the the startup costs. they are huge. i give the advice that was given to me"expand away but spend nothing". to turn the thing around how do drystock lads see the future of their bizz

tismesoitis

we sold out the dairy herd 4 years ago this month. have now built up a herd of 70 suckler cows selling export type weanlings. we are absolutly delighted to b out of milking cows. i'm now 35 with a wife and a 6 month old baby and its only now i really apreciate not having to milk a herd of cows twice every sunday and doing all related jobs. 1 and a half hours now and everything is sorted. i see lots of young lads posting here saying they'd love to milk and when i was 21 thats all i wanted to do too. i had a serious interest in good cows and breeding but when i looked at the ammount of work that had to b put in for the modest return i was'nt long changing my view.tbh i'd even go as far as saying the pay per hour is prob everybit as good with the sucklers as it was with cows and i have loads of time for the part-time job and my nixers. best of luck lads

keep going

the most important rule here is"what ever you are happy at".i personally could make no money out of cattle on rented land .gave up dry stock 10 years ago and went into reps ,best move i ever made.

kevthegaff

i started 3 yrs ago, bought 12 unit parlour second hand 6k, bulk tank 1k, 80 cows- 100k, quota 39,000 gls- 30k, machinery- 10k, basically still owe around 130 grand. Tough work but starting to reep the benefits. The first few years are the toughest but once you start breeding your own replacements it gets easier.

stanflt

kevthegaff wrote: »

i started 3 yrs ago, bought 12 unit parlour second hand 6k, bulk tank 1k, 80 cows- 100k, quota 39,000 gls- 30k, machinery- 10k, basically still owe around 130 grand. Tough work but starting to reep the benefits. The first few years are the toughest but once you start breeding your own replacements it gets easier.

best of luck in the future-the hard work will pay off

stanflt

PMU wrote: »

as well as grass,what do u feed the cows for that yield?
pat

sorry bout the late reply

last winter they were getting 35kg maize-25kg silage-and 4kg of 28% protein course ration-3kg in the parlour

now only grass and 3kg in parlour

PMU

stanflt wrote: »

sorry bout the late reply

last winter they were getting 35kg maize-25kg silage-and 4kg of 28% protein course ration-3kg in the parlour

now only grass and 3kg in parlour

good stocking rate there,5cows/ha.what are they yielding?

stanflt

PMU wrote: »

good stocking rate there,5cows/ha.what are they yielding?

current stocking rate of 5.25/ha on my grass wedge-(agrinet great job)
cows are averaging 31litres @3.81fat and 3.41prot on the milk lorry-milk recording says 4.24fat and 3.56 prot:eek:.....

half the herd are autumn calvers

browned

stanflt wrote: »

current stocking rate of 5.25/ha on my grass wedge-(agrinet great job)
cows are averaging 31litres @3.81fat and 3.41prot on the milk lorry-milk recording says 4.24fat and 3.56 prot:eek:.....

half the herd are autumn calvers

wow thats impressive. just wondering how are u able to maintain such a high stocking rate and still keep such high yields, ur demand/ha must be over 100kgs/day. do they need to be highly supplemented, or is the farm growing that much grass?

zoostorm

lorry needs a new sampler!!!

Split the samples, and tell the creamery your intentions, results might just change.

i.e. get the lorry driver to give you half his sample, so it can be sent to the milk recording lab.

sandy9

stanflt wrote: »

current stocking rate of 5.25/ha on my grass wedge-(agrinet great job)
cows are averaging 31litres @3.81fat and 3.41prot on the milk lorry-milk recording says 4.24fat and 3.56 prot:eek:.....

half the herd are autumn calvers

Hi stanflt with a stocking rate as high as this how do your heifers perform? as in how much milk do they give, how hard are they to get back incalf and do you have a high replacement rate?