Pedigree Cattle

yessam

Hi All,
I have been considering for years keeping a small number of pedigree cattle, mostly for a hobby and maybe make a bit of profit also.
I am wondering is there someplace to learn the basics of the trade, like training animals to show, grooming and presenting animals etc.
Does the societys or teagasc do training days on this.
I would like to hear how other people got on when they started with pedigrees.

Sundy

Theres a book called Bovine Showbiz which is worth a read. You can get it from christies direct.

reilig

Sundy wrote: »

Theres a book called Bovine Showbiz which is worth a read. You can get it from christies direct.

Unfortunately Christies aren't dealing in any bovine products anymore

They sold out to a Uk company. They only deal in small animal products now.

Sundy

reilig wrote: »

Unfortunately Christies aren't dealing in any bovine products anymore

They sold out to a Uk company. They only deal in small animal products now.

It seems to have moved here

http://www.showtime-supplies.co.uk/


The book is on there anyway!

snowman707

the country shows will be starting early May, go along early and see the exhibitors preparing on the day, most of the exhibitors and indeed the judges will be only too pleased to answer any queries you may have (within reason!!!!)

What breed/s are you interested in ?
some of the societies offer great advise, while I find one or two are in the dark ages

yessam

Thanks All. I will probably get that book. I notice they have dvd's also.

I am leaning very much going for Herford's. Hoping to buy about 3 heifers and take it from there.
Is there any society more helpful than the other

capslock88

All the societies would generally be as supportive as eachother just some like the charolais and limousin for example have alot more money because of large no. of registrations ...herefords would be nice cattle to have as a hobby...very easy mangaged and kept....shows are a great place to get to know people and learn from other breeders...you could then join the local branch or club of the society..even if you didn't have any cattle yet you could check out the local club and decide after that...they'd generally be delighted to give you all the info...

yessam

I am going to attend a few show and sales and find out as much as i can before buying any heifers.

has anyone any advice on pedigree lines to watch out for. i am not stuck on hereford, but i have a liking for them.

i will check out all recomeded lines.

Bizzum

Would you consider any of the non-mainstream breeds like Parthenais, Aubrac, Speckled Park, Blonde Etc?
Perhaps more of a growth area?

bogman_bass

I bought a parthenaise heifer for that reason. every man and his dog has limos or charolais

planet.melvin

yessam wrote: »

I am going to attend a few show and sales and find out as much as i can before buying any heifers.

has anyone any advice on pedigree lines to watch out for. i am not stuck on hereford, but i have a liking for them.

i will check out all recomeded lines.

Maybe you should consider Belgian Blue. Extremely docile cattle and easily kept if things are done right. you could buy embryos, its the fastest way 2 get into them

Bizzum

planet.melvin wrote: »

Maybe you should consider Belgian Blue. Extremely docile cattle and easily kept if things are done right

Without wanting to upset the BB breeders:
To my mind a cow that can't calve naturally and rear its own calf does not lend itself to be easily kept.

Juniorhurler

Bizzum wrote: »

Without wanting to upset the BB breeders:
To my mind a cow that can't calve naturally and rear its own calf does not lend itself to be easily kept.

I got into a couple of these as a hobby almost two years ago. All these boys getting into recipients and buying embryos now are in for some shock. the market is about to be flooded, the big money will go out of them and leave a lot of these entrants up the creek. The costs are huge, emryo @ about €400 with a conception rate of 66% equals €600 per pregnancy and we all know a pregnancy does not mean a calf plus a caesarian @€;200 plus a cost of about €70 per recipient to get ready for implanting (only 2 in 3 will hold so this means a cost of€105 per pregnancy). €100 to register an embryo born calf with the BB society. that all adds up to €1005 before feeding a heifer, vets bills (which are always more with embryo born calves as in my experience they are softer) feeding and keeping the calf to two years old. I have saw this breed in a neighbours place maggoting and getting the mange at the drop of a hat and boys if you think killing ringworm is hard try killing the mange in a farm. I got back out of them quicker than I got in. Commercials all the way for me now. Hybrid vigour is under valued imo.;)

To summarise, Bizzum is dead right, they will be near impossible to keep and make money from in a year or two.

yessam

Bizzum wrote: »

Would you consider any of the non-mainstream breeds like Parthenais, Aubrac, Speckled Park, Blonde Etc?
Perhaps more of a growth area?

I don't know much abaut these breed's

What would you consider there strong traits

Bizzum

yessam wrote: »

I don't know much abaut these breed's

What would you consider there strong traits

The market aint saturated with them!

yessam

Bizzum wrote: »

The market aint saturated with them!

What's your opinion on "Hereford"

Bizzum

yessam wrote: »

What's your opinion on "Hereford"

The easiest thing in the world is for me to pick a breed and say they are great white hope.
There are so many breeds and they all have similarities and differences. What I like, you may dislike. Pick a couple you like most' that suit your set-up, check out the societies and sales, talk to a few breeders and make your decision!
It's a matter of personal taste and what type of cattle you are interested in producing.

yessam

what surprises did any of yea get when yea first got into pedigrees..

Muckit

How much work it is!!

Also you've extra hassle and things to think about if you still have a commercial herd and running a bull with them. You've to keep ped and comm cows separate until you've ped's in calf with AI.

Calves can be much weaker and more susceptible to diseases.

Diet and stock husbandry becomes ever more critical.

Halter training can be an experience in itself:rolleyes:

tismesoitis

d pedigrees always seem to b the first to die:( especially if they are a real good one or if u paid alot of money for them this was our experience anyway

yessam

this seems to be the case with all annimals - cattle, sheep, horses, and dogs. yet when you are talking to anyone that is at them, seem to never loose one.
i think some of them can spin tales

whelan1

yessam wrote: »

what surprises did any of yea get when yea first got into pedigrees..

lots of them ... one of our heifer went in calf in quarantine:rolleyes::rolleyes:

UPCS

Parthenaise are quiet and easy to work with, we keep a couple ourselves and they are lovely cattle.

Bodacious

tismesoitis wrote: »

d pedigrees always seem to b the first to die:( especially if they are a real good one or if u paid alot of money for them this was our experience anyway[/QUOTe

They definitely harder fed than hybrids, have a PBNR lim on trial at the minute but i have seen lots of lads in my area get them and expect them to live on the same as a CH xAA cow or whatever .. result ...cant get them back in calf or even so too late in the year then flog them! :mad:

reilig

Bodacious wrote: »

tismesoitis wrote: »

d pedigrees always seem to b the first to die:( especially if they are a real good one or if u paid alot of money for them this was our experience anyway[/QUOTe

They definitely harder fed than hybrids, have a PBNR lim on trial at the minute but i have seen lots of lads in my area get them and expect them to live on the same as a CH xAA cow or whatever .. result ...cant get them back in calf or even so too late in the year then flog them! :mad:

We have a small herd of limousins that we keep on an outfarm. We started with 2 heifers. Now we have 5 that will calve over the next 4 months. We keep 5 other cows in the same herd (limousinX and ChaorlaisX). The limousins eat no more than the Cross breds as far as I can see. Nor are they any harder for us to keep, nor do they demand extra time. They eat more than an AAX cow because they are usually bigger - but I will most often get more for their calves than from an AA cow.

If I was feeding a pedigree bull for sale or preparing pedigrees for show or sale, then that would take extra time - but I would hope to be compensated for that at sale time. It is my intention to have the whole herd as pedigrees in years to come (10 cows in total). I have never had any difficult calvings with pedigree limousins and the calves are usually pretty hardy. A pedigree weinling bull will usually fetch a premium price at a commercial weinling sale and he will not have cost anything extra to keep than a commercial weinling.

If I do have an exceptional calf every now and again, I can decide to feed him for a pedigree sale - but sometimes that's more hassle than its worth.

Bodacious

reilig wrote: »

Bodacious wrote: »

We have a small herd of limousins that we keep on an outfarm. We started with 2 heifers. Now we have 5 that will calve over the next 4 months. We keep 5 other cows in the same herd (limousinX and ChaorlaisX). The limousins eat no more than the Cross breds as far as I can see. Nor are they any harder for us to keep, nor do they demand extra time. They eat more than an AAX cow because they are usually bigger - but I will most often get more for their calves than from an AA cow.

If I was feeding a pedigree bull for sale or preparing pedigrees for show or sale, then that would take extra time - but I would hope to be compensated for that at sale time. It is my intention to have the whole herd as pedigrees in years to come (10 cows in total). I have never had any difficult calvings with pedigree limousins and the calves are usually pretty hardy. A pedigree weinling bull will usually fetch a premium price at a commercial weinling sale and he will not have cost anything extra to keep than a commercial weinling.

If I do have an exceptional calf every now and again, I can decide to feed him for a pedigree sale - but sometimes that's more hassle than its worth.

Would you announce him as PBNR in that case? Some lad looking keep him on as a bull usually?!

reilig

Bodacious wrote: »

reilig wrote: »

Would you announce him as PBNR in that case? Some lad looking keep him on as a bull usually?!

I'd announce him as registered.

I register them all - if they are slaughtered under 24 months, I will get a refund of the full registration fee from the Limousin Soc.

I only sold ped. bull calf at the commercial sale last year. He was 440kg at 8 months and made 1150 euro - bought for export and probably living it up in Italy now

Muckit

reilig wrote: »

Bodacious wrote: »

A pedigree weinling bull will usually fetch a premium price at a commercial weinling sale and he will not have cost anything extra to keep than a commercial weinling.

If I do have an exceptional calf every now and again, I can decide to feed him for a pedigree sale - but sometimes that's more hassle than its worth.

That's something I never thought about REILIG. Would you have the Cert hanging on the gate? (I'm assuming their registered?)

Have a bull calf myself again this year. Will be next year before I'I have to be doignanything with him, but selling him in a commercial mart never enterd my head Could do just as well if they'd run him through the cow/heifer ring, and no hassle with walking him

reilig

Muckit wrote: »

reilig wrote: »

That's something I never thought about REILIG. Would you have the Cert hanging on the gate? (I'm assuming their registered?)

Have a bull calf myself again this year. Will be next year before I'I have to be doignanything with him, but selling him in a commercial mart never enterd my head Could do just as well if they'd run him through the cow/heifer ring, and no hassle with walking him

To be honest with you I wouldn't hang his cert on the gate. I'd staple it to his blue card and send it with him - that's all. If I thought he was going to make a suitable bull I'd keep him for feeding and selling as a proper bull.

All of your pedigree bull calves will never be suitable as a bull - 1 in 5 might. That's where the problem lies - too many pedigree breeders think that all of their calves will make good bulls. They are fed to the last and brought out to sales where the highest bidder on them may only be €1200 or €1500 - You lose money at that craic. its better to sell a pedigree weinling bull that has ate €80 worth of meal for €1000 than an 18 month old pedigree bull that has ate €700 worth of meal for €1400

yessam

reilig wrote: »

Muckit wrote: »

To be honest with you I wouldn't hang his cert on the gate. I'd staple it to his blue card and send it with him - that's all. If I thought he was going to make a suitable bull I'd keep him for feeding and selling as a proper bull.

All of your pedigree bull calves will never be suitable as a bull - 1 in 5 might. That's where the problem lies - too many pedigree breeders think that all of their calves will make good bulls. They are fed to the last and brought out to sales where the highest bidder on them may only be €1200 or €1500 - You lose money at that craic. its better to sell a pedigree weinling bull that has ate €80 worth of meal for €1000 than an 18 month old pedigree bull that has ate €700 worth of meal for €1400

Just curious - What happens the heifers.

reilig

yessam wrote: »

reilig wrote: »

Just curious - What happens the heifers.

I kept the 3 of them for replacements. Planning to swap 1 with a cousin in exchange for a share in a machine

Pulham herefords

Hi Yessam
I started a herd of pedigree herefords about 4 years ago, and I find the people in the breed to be very friendly and helpful. The cattle are great as well docile, easy calving and just great to look at, and wonderful eating quality. If you look at my website www.pulhamherefords.co.uk you can see how we first started.