Cloud in Education

Paddyo

HI

I posted last year asking about a network system for a new primary school building.

I am finding it difficult to get useable advice (or maybe I dont get what I am being told) regarding where cloud computing fits into the school.

I do understand the concept of 'the cloud' and various companies have various offerings. I know that Google Apps is free to schools.

I am just wondering what best practice is for a primary school. Should we use a mixture - i.e. use google for mail and some document sharing while still having our domain controlled network in the school. I have read that google mail can be linked to the AD. This will save us buying Exchange Server?

The biggest worry I have is the quality of broadband. Probably going to be from Imagine - Wireless line of sight. Does anyone know if this is good?

Has anyone used the http://www.aladdinschools.com/ service. Looks good.

Any advice on the setup of a primary school network system would be welcome.

Many thanks
Paddyo

Static M.e.

Paddyo,

Forget about "Cloud", its just another Fad word.

Focus on what you are trying to do, what you would like to do, what IS the best thing you could hope for the Schools IT and then work backwards.

Isn't their a Gov body\online resource for School and their IT?.. I cant remember the name

If your biggest worry is broadband then find someone who offers a fully Cabled service rather than Wireless line of sight. Wireless can be flaky and definetly a lot more unreliable than Wired BB in my opinion. We only use Wireless for backups to our main wired network

Paddyo

Hi Static.

www.ncte.ie is what I think you are referring to.

The latest Network guidlines are dated 2005. I think there may have been a few changes since then

They cannot organise a survey to be carried by imagine while the building work is being completed as it is not safe and there is only temporary power. We only want to get the cables required to be run internally rather than on an external wall. We are stuck with Imagine when/if they can get it to work. I was told that the imagine installers do not have SafePass.

Thanks for your comments

Paddyo

Static M.e.

Paddyo,

I'm not sure I follow, are you building a new school?

They cannot organise a survey to be carried by imagine while the building work is being completed as it is not safe and there is only temporary power. We only want to get the cables required to be run internally rather than on an external wall. We are stuck with Imagine when/if they can get it to work. I was told that the imagine installers do not have SafePass.

Im not sure how much or little you know SO (new build) are you getting in a telephone system? If so, then ask whoever is putting it in to install broadband as well (Eircom, BT etc). Internet runs on the telephone wires so i you have a phone system already in the building then you can (Most likely) get broadband one of those lines.

How many computers do you intend to have? Who is supporting those computers, do you have a IT company (no actual company names needed)?

rolion

Hi Paddyo,

I'm dealing with a number of primary schools around Dublin...references can be provided if required.

However,based on your post,is very hard to give you a proper advice,for anybody here,online !
Come back with more details and we can provide you with "virtual" best advise...

Regards...

Paddyo

Hi Static

Should have made it clearer. There is new school being built - nearly finished - moving in around Easter.

With the NCTE, we already have imagine in the old school. We have no choice as to the provider. Imagine must get first chance in the new school as they are the incumbent. If they cananot provide then a new provider will be selected for us.

Im in the IT business for a long time now, so no probelm with deciding on servers, PCs, networking etc.. However, I think I will be suggesting the need for a support contract when the install is complete. Havent looked at any options as of yet.

Just a bit unsure about all of the Cloud talk - a lot of seems like hype, particularly being pushed by the Cloud providers.

Im really wondering if any other primary school has used 'the Cloud'. I wish there was a better name for it

We are geting top of the range interactive white boards and projectors, have added a lot of additional network points, power points etc, as the original spec was far from sufficient. WIll be purhasing new PCs and installing a new decent Server. Will be a total of at least 90 PCs/Laptops in the school.

We want to make sure that we learn from everyone elses mistakes

All suggestions welcome.

Paddyo

Kinetic^

I think if you were to go with google apps you could utilise:

Gmail - for teachers/board of management. I don't think email at primary school would be appropriate. Uptime is great and means you don't have to worry about exchange.
Documents - Collaboration on documents, spreadsheets, presentations.
Calendar - Useful for internal (meetings, AGMs) or external (parent teacher meetings)
Google Sites: Great for getting pictures/videos posted and for weekly/monthly news on how things are going in the school - art, sports days etc


I'd look at using something like italc in classes where it's full with computers. It will allow for better interaction and instruction between teacher and student without having to leave the top of the classroom.


I know myself that the connection in schools is locked down but there's always a chance a virus/malware will get through. If documents/pictures are going to be stored on google docs/network drive, I'd look at maybe having something like steady state (it's end of line now but something similar) in place to keep the computers/laptops running sweet everytime they turn on. There's an open source image distribution software available, when I remember the name I'll post it.

Paddyo

Thanks Kinetic

Would you use Google Docs for editing the documents or would you just use it as a file Store?

Paddyo

Kinetic^

Both for teachers. The collaboration on it makes it very useful as an administration tool as well as something you could use in a classroom full of computers. You could give each student an account but I'd disable everything except for document access, this would prevent and potential bullying or gossip while allowing data storage and collaboration.


If the teachers you're working with aren't very technically minded, I'd have a test team of 2-4 and get them up to speed. It will then mean that there isn't just 1 person being relied upon for any follow up Q&A.


I'm sure there are a few of the google app apps (:)) that would come in handy although for education I'd imagine they could be very US centric.

Paddyo

Hi Kinetic

had a look at that ITALIC program. It looks very interesting - and free.

Lets see what the teachers think

Paddyo

Static M.e.

With the NCTE, we already have imagine in the old school. We have no choice as to the provider. Imagine must get first chance in the new school as they are the incumbent. If they cananot provide then a new provider will be selected for us.

Really? wow, that's a strange policy. Not that Im against Imagine or anything but...If it works for you and you get the right support then your fine I suppose.

Just a bit unsure about all of the Cloud talk - a lot of seems like hype, particularly being pushed by the Cloud providers.

Im really wondering if any other primary school has used 'the Cloud'. I wish there was a better name for it

Oh there is a better name. I call it the...wait for it!...The INTERNET. Its just another name for Software as a service, Hardware as a Service, blah, blah. blah
Wait till you start hearing about Public Clouds, Private Clouds or Semi Public/Private Clouds...Zzzzzzz

Anyway, back on topic. 90 PC's..primary school..probably generic accounts for students? actual accounts for staff. I like what Kenetic mentioned, google mail/docs/calander is very useful, its good stuff. My only problem would be that I dont have full access to those accounts.

Lets play devils advocate here. Say, someone deletes thier account or loses their password, can you restore their information?
What if, your Board comes back to you with an I deleted an email last year, Its very important. Can you restore it for me?
What if, someone comes in with a freedom of information request and asks you to delete any emails to or from that student from your gmail system. Can you do that?
Do you have to keep information from Boards, Finance for 7 years plus like we do?

Honestly, Ive no idea if you can or not. But its things like that I would question with "Cloud" services. Again, Im not a reseller of anything and ive never worked with Schools so perhaps Im not the best person to be butting in, but thats random advice from strangers for ya!

If your an IT guy then I would stick with the basics. A physical Exchange Server or Hosted exchange server. A file Server and a good Online backup service which runs every night. Its pretty much fail proof at this stage.

Also depending on HOW important your broadband link is, I would have both a Wired and a Wireless solution to ensure service. Probably cost you 4K a year for both.

Static M.e.

Perhaps of interest to you.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/29/hosted_apps/

Kinetic^

Static M.e. wrote: »

Say, someone deletes thier account or loses their password, can you restore their information?

It's not exactly AD but you do have privileges over creating accounts & resetting passwords.

I'm fairly certain the other stuff is not covered.

rolion

myself ... at the cost of Microsoft software titles for Educational market compared to business AND the cost of CALs...recommend Exchange and/or Sharepoint on a dedicated hardware platform all the way !!

Firstly,full ownership of the system...Full Stop !

The remaining advantages...just a bonus !

Regards.

conkerrigan

Hi Kinetic

Ive seen you put a post on iTalc a while back, im quite interested in this kind of thing yet would only be passing average when it come to pc terminology. Ive looked at the italc website and have downloaded the software yet i dont get the option of client software, im using windows 7 would this be any reason why thing dont seem to load up correctly.

I have successfully installed the master version but cannot relay info to client machines could you assist me in the correct layout of installing this software succesfully.....

Any help would be appreciative..

Con