N40 - New route number for Cork South Ring Road?

spacetweek

MYOB wrote: »

It already has an A suffixed "junction" at Citywest (3A).

Not heard of a future junction at Tootenhill but there is going to be one for the Sallins bypass/Osberstown at some point also, 9A I'd assume.

You're right - I only just noticed that the pair of LILOs west of the main Citywest junction (J3) is labelled 3A and indeed appears on signs.
I forgot about Osberstown. I presume this is dead until the property market stages a comeback.

Jayuu

In fairness the numbers on the junctions between Naas and the M50 are fairly random because the original plan was for a new M7 to run from Naas to a new junction on the M50 (Junction 8) and not along the Naas Road. I would imagine that had that plan been carried out we would have properly numbered interesctions (1 to 8) along the way although I've never seen any plans for that proposed route. Are there any out there?

Once the plan was dropped following the widening of the Naas Road they just numbered certain junctions to fit. It does seem odd that they left out a possible number for NX but as they were short numbers already they probably just decided to go with what the obvious properly designed interesections.

I reckon the 3A designation was added purely to distinguish between the junction for the Citywest Hotel as opposed to the junction for the Citywest Business Campus. It was definitely a later addition.

Even at that there are some small junctions on this route that don't have any designations. Inbound there's a junction for Baldonnel just before the Citywest junction that isn't numbered. And there's a minor road join just before Newlands Cross that doesn't have one. I think there's another one further out but I'm not sure about it. Outbound there's the one you mention at Tootenhill.

With regard to future proofing that's kind of hard to predict. Yes I know the Leinster Orbital was talked about but had any form of real planning for it taken place. As far as I remember it was still a proposal even at the height of the boom. I can't see it being built now for at least another 20 years.

Its kind of hard to leave gaps because you think there might be a junction at some time in the future. And if time does overtake your plan then is putting in an "A" junction number such a big deal.

JeffK88

Osberstown Junction is built and open according to Googlemaps :rolleyes:

invinciblePRSTV

So anyway, back to the N40......

Amtmann

...of which we as yet have no news.

spacetweek

JeffK88 wrote: »

Osberstown Junction is built and open according to Googlemaps :rolleyes:

I submitted a change request to Teleatlas, but they're usually useless.

Amtmann

N25 being changed to N40 confirmed here.

From N22 at Ovens/EMC interchange to a point east of Carrigtwohill the tunnel.

Colm R

Amtmann wrote: »

N25 being changed to N40 confirmed here.

From N22 at Ovens/EMC interchange to a point east of Carrigtwohill.

I cannot imagine the N25 from the tunnel to east of Carrigtwohill will become the N40. Perhaps there will be signs on this road giving advance warning of the N40 coming up.

niloc1951

Amtmann wrote: »

N25 being changed to N40 confirmed here.

From N22 at Ovens/EMC interchange to a point east of Carrigtwohill.

Very interesting.
So we will have primary route numbers changing as we drive along the same primary route, the only other occasions I recall seeing this happening is crossing international boundaries.
Is Cork finally being granted its own Republic status :D

Amtmann

Colm R wrote: »

I cannot imagine the N25 from the tunnel to east of Carrigtwohill will become the N40. Perhaps there will be signs on this road giving advance warning of the N25 coming up.

After re-reading it, I think you're right.

niloc1951

Colm R wrote: »

I cannot imagine the N25 from the tunnel to east of Carrigtwohill will become the N40. Perhaps there will be signs on this road giving advance warning of the N25 coming up.

Would it not be a better priority to spend what limited cash there is on fixing (re-fixing the recent crap attempt) the surface disintegration of the westbound carriageway of this section than putting the money in the pocket of Mr Rennick for a project which will do nothing for the driving experience along the said stretch of roadway.

Amtmann

I wonder what the rationale for the change is.

I think this rules out the N40 becoming a motorway in the medium term.

munchkin_utd

we definitely had our eye off the ball on this one
Here IS the definition of what the N40 is

N40
Cork Ring Road
Between its junction with N22 at Curraheen in the county of Cork and its junction with N25 at Dunkettle in the county of Cork via Ballinaspig More, Ardarostig and South Ring Road in the county of Cork: South Ring Road in the city of Cork: South Ring Road and Monfieldstown in the county of Cork.

S.I. No. 53/2012 — Roads Act 1993 (Classification of National Roads) Order 2012.
"Notice of the making of this Statutory Instrument was published in “Iris Oifigiúil” of 28th February, 2012."
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2012/en/si/0053.html

So in total it'll only be 15km long
N40 - Cork South Ring Map

Typewriter

I would assume that the n25 will now go on to cork city via tivoli eliminating the n8.

It would make more sence for the n40 to go all the way to the model farm road roundabout via the current new bit of n22 dual carriageway. If/when the northern ring road is done the n40 would be a complete ring.

L1011

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2012/en/si/0054.html for the Regional ones also, this should resolve any potential legal issues for the state for charging someone on an R road that existed only in signage anyway.

compared to the UK where the HA can't provide a definitive list of road numbers, this is quite efficient!

However, its missing the "R999" in Wicklow and maybe others.

etchyed

munchkin_utd wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2012/en/si/0053.html

MYOB wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2012/en/si/0054.html for the Regional ones...

Looks like the N32 is dead. Seems to have been reclassified as R139.

csd

It looks like the portion of the N4 inside the M50 has been reclassified a regional road too:

Dublin — Sligo
Between its junction with M50 at Palmerstown Upper in the county of South Dublin and its junction with N15 at Cartron in the borough of Sligo

/csd

L1011

Its not just the N4. The only N roads inside the M50 now are the N11 and N31!

N1/2/3/4/81 all start at the M50 according to that document; N7 was detrunked years ago.

edit: pity they didn't de-duplicate some of the N secondaries that are mostly useless since the motorways were built while they were doing this.

Storm2

munchkin_utd wrote: »

we definitely had our eye off the ball on this one
Here IS the definition of what the N40 is


S.I. No. 53/2012 — Roads Act 1993 (Classification of National Roads) Order 2012.
"Notice of the making of this Statutory Instrument was published in “Iris Oifigiúil” of 28th February, 2012."
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2012/en/si/0053.html

So in total it'll only be 15km long
N40 - Cork South Ring Map

Technically it's still a primary as the M50 (or the N50 if you're living in 1994 ) was primary, just without the important sounding N25 number.

AugustusMinimus

I'm guessing part of the reason for changing the SRR to the N40 is that they want to classify it eventually as a motorway.

spacetweek

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I'm guessing part of the reason for changing the SRR to the N40 is that they want to classify it eventually as a motorway.

But this isn't a good way of doing it! They're replacing all the green N25 signage with green N40. A motorway upgrade would require replacing it all again, with blue M40.

Amtmann wrote: »

From N22 at Ovens/EMC interchange to a point east of Carrigtwohill the tunnel.

It starts at the Curraheen interchange, not Ovens. Makes more sense. If the Ballincollig bypass was made part of the N40, then the N22 would once again run through Ballincollig.

spacetweek

I notice the N82 is gone too. Never saw the need for that, or at least, if they're gonna have one, make the Outer Ring Road the N82.

spacetweek

Openstreetmap has already been updated with all these changes. Good old Openstreetmap!

charlemont

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I'm guessing part of the reason for changing the SRR to the N40 is that they want to classify it eventually as a motorway.

It will never be motorway nor should it be. Its a city ring road not a long distance route.

The North Ring will be build to motorway standard though as it will have only a few junctions.

charlemont

spacetweek wrote: »

I notice the N82 is gone too. Never saw the need for that, or at least, if they're gonna have one, make the Outer Ring Road the N82.

Is the road by City West to Tallaght not N82 ?

spacetweek

charlemont wrote: »

It will never be motorway nor should it be. Its a city ring road not a long distance route.

Not sure I follow? The M50 is also a city ring.
They should have held off on the N40 redesignation until Dunkettle was done, then called it M40.

charlemont wrote: »

Is the road by City West to Tallaght not N82 ?

Yep, that's the one. Downgraded to R838/Local.

charlemont

spacetweek wrote: »

Not sure I follow? The M50 is also a city ring.
They should have held off on the N40 redesignation until Dunkettle was done, then called it M40.



Yep, that's the one. Downgraded to R838/Local.

Cool.

The M50 was build as a motorway and Dublin is a large city whereas Cork is really only a regional city, The SRR as it is has too many junctions and also has the Douglas viaduct with no hard shoulders, I travel that road a lot and no I wouldn't trust a lot of the drivers there if it was a motorway, I'v no problem with the speed limit being increased but I just couldn't see it as a motorway, Too much local traffic and lets face facts all the vehicles barred from a motorway would still use it anyway.

Typewriter

If/when the North Ring is built I've a feeling they might designate the eastern section (N20 to current M8) the M40 motorway. The Glanmire Bypass (current M8) will be designated M40 or downgraded to N40. The rest will all be N40.

The junction with the western end of the North Ring and the current road network will be at the Poulavone roundabout.

This is clearly stated in this document...

http://www.corkrdo.ie/files/CNRR%20Brochure-Preferred%20Route%20Part%201.pdf

This does not state any upgrade of the existing N22 (possible future N40) road between the Poulavone roundabout and the current South ring road.

AugustusMinimus

Typewriter wrote: »

If/when the North Ring is built I've a feeling they might designate the eastern section (N20 to current M8) the M40 motorway. The Glanmire Bypass (current M8) will be designated M40 or downgraded to N40. The rest will all be N40.

The junction with the western end of the North Ring and the current road network will be at the Poulavone roundabout.

This is clearly stated in this document...

http://www.corkrdo.ie/files/CNRR%20Brochure-Preferred%20Route%20Part%201.pdf

This does not state any upgrade of the existing N22 (possible future N40) road between the Poulavone roundabout and the current South ring road.

I can still see the whole thing being reclassified as motorway. Obviously tunnel to Ballincollig bypass would remain with a 100kph speed limit.

I don't see any point in removing the motorway tag from the Glanmire bypass if it is reclassified as part of the N40.

SeanW

charlemont wrote: »

It will never be motorway nor should it be. Its a city ring road not a long distance route.

*Cough* *cough* M50 ...