Ireland vs Uruguay: Tues: KO 7:45

elefant

noodler wrote: »

Easy now:

Keane's goals in the last two campaigns:

Vs Cyprus (H)
Vs Georgia (H) X2
Vs Cyprus (A)
Vs Italy (A)
Vs France (A)

Vs Andorra (H)
Vs Russia (H)
Vs Macedonia (H)

That ain't easily replaced

So we have penalties against Georgia and Russia (a dive) as well as goals from play against the powerhouses of Cyprus, Andorra, Macedonia and Georgia. Fair enough with the goals against France and Italy, but I don't doubt that Long could have scored against any of the other teams Keane scored against.

I realise he's our top ever scorer and all, but his finishing was awful against Slovakia, he's hardly played in the premiership this season and honestly I can't see how he's anywhere near as useful in general play as Long any more. Long is good in the air, really fast, great work ethic and he doesn't mouth off consistently for 90 minutes every game. I just can't see how Keane warrants starting ahead of Long apart from past reputation.

master-t

elefant wrote: »

So we have penalties against Georgia and Russia (a dive) as well as goals from play against the powerhouses of Cyprus, Andorra, Macedonia and Georgia. Fair enough with the goals against France and Italy, but I don't doubt that Long could have scored against any of the other teams Keane scored against.

I realise he's our top ever scorer and all, but his finishing was awful against Slovakia, he's hardly played in the premiership this season and honestly I can't see how he's anywhere near as useful in general play as Long any more. Long is good in the air, really fast, great work ethic and he doesn't mouth off consistently for 90 minutes every game. I just can't see how Keane warrants starting ahead of Long apart from past reputation.

Because Keane is a better finisher.

Are you telling me in the 90th minute........ 1 v 1.......you want Long there instead of Keane?

elefant

master-t wrote: »

Firstly, look at the goal Keane got on Sat. A poacher's goal. First Irish player near the thing and tucked it away.

Now, look at tonight. Keogh's missed header and missed sliding in shot thing - Keane would have defo tucked one of them away. As someone earlier said - with his arse!

Long, yes, a very good player and has been more than impressive for us. However, Keane is the goal scoring predator - we don't have a player like him in our team. We don't.

Long term successor? Yes. Perhaps even push Doyle and Keane. But to simply replace him? No.

With regards Clark (not Clarke). Granted he was out of position, but he didn't exactly show Trap was wrong with his selection on Sat now did he? I think short term we are ok, but the future looks very good.

Well I'm not contending Keogh would be a better choice than Keane Anyway, I think even I could have tucked that one away tonight.

And apologies on the -e.

elefant

master-t wrote: »

Because Keane is a better finisher.

Are you telling me in the 90th minute........ 1 v 1.......you want Long there instead of Keane?

No, but I think we would create more with Long. Keane would be a good substitute of course because of his finishing (if he's on his game), but we never would have won that penalty tonight if it was Keane playing... if fact we wouldn't have scored either goal.

stiffler123

I think this formation could counteract Russia nicely. The defence was horrible today in the first half but if we have Dunne, St Ledger and O Shea starting it shouldn't be as big an issue. I still believe in Traps system of 4-4-2 against weaker teams. We always start well and go a goal up with that formation, it's how we play after taking the lead that needs some work.
I was a bit disappointed with McCarthy, I know he got us the penalty but didn't do much else. My biggest headache would be Long/ Keane. I think Keane should always start as he is a goal machine for us whether he plays good or bad, but Long's work rate tonight was undeniable. Keane and Long's partnership hasn't been fantastic when they have played together so far so it is a tough one.

Revolution9

What a match to witness if only the FAI didn't charge and arm and a leg to watch

Raskolnikov

elefant wrote: »

So we have penalties against Georgia and Russia (a dive) as well as goals from play against the powerhouses of Cyprus, Andorra, Macedonia and Georgia. Fair enough with the goals against France and Italy, but I don't doubt that Long could have scored against any of the other teams Keane scored against.

So you're saying we should drop Doyle, because he played in most of those games and didn't score.

noodler

paulcorr wrote: »

Kneejerk call a spade a spade he was terrible,and looked so far off the pace it was unreal his touch was so poor, he missed every header he went up for he was so poor it was embarassing.

Everytime someone has a shocker (and this was a friendly against one of the better teams in the world with half our squad) its "the worst performance by a plyer for years etc"

elefant wrote: »

So we have penalties against Georgia and Russia (a dive) as well as goals from play against the powerhouses of Cyprus, Andorra, Macedonia and Georgia. Fair enough with the goals against France and Italy, but I don't doubt that Long could have scored against any of the other teams Keane scored against.

I realise he's our top ever scorer and all, but his finishing was awful against Slovakia, he's hardly played in the premiership this season and honestly I can't see how he's anywhere near as useful in general play as Long any more. Long is good in the air, really fast, great work ethic and he doesn't mouth off consistently for 90 minutes every game. I just can't see how Keane warrants starting ahead of Long apart from past reputation.

I am not even going to bother addressing that.

master-t

elefant wrote: »

Well I'm not contending Keogh would be a better choice than Keane Anyway, I think even I could have tucked that one away tonight.

And apologies on the -e.

That was me being picky

I know you wern't with Keogh, but I was just highlighting were Keane is so lethal I guess.

Don't get me wrong, I rate Long highly, but I don't think it is fair to just drop Keane. I think he would push Doyle though as they have the same attributes and Long has a better chance of scoring potentially.

Perhaps 3 up top??? :P

Raskolnikov

noodler wrote: »

I am not even going to bother addressing that.

I love the way that he can emphasis that Keane was poor against Slovakia in one game, whereas Shane Long has been sh!te for a Championship level team for most of his career.

elefant

Well Doyle has got a few goals, he wins a mountain of headers and he sets goals up. Long has 20 goals this season so I don't think he's incapable of goalscoring either.

noodler

Raskolnikov wrote: »

I love the way that he can emphasis that Keane was poor against Slovakia in one game, whereas Shane Long has been sh!te for a Championship level team for most of his career.

Well thats not true either in fairness.

Pro. F

Long really was impressive tonight. He's going to be giving Trap a headache and causing endless arguments on here with performances like that. Man of the match.

Fahey showed what is possible when you have someone in the centre who can actually do something with the ball. We managed to control the ball for spells tonight and put together some nice passing movements. That never happens with Whelan, Andrews, Gibson etc. I hope Trap was paying attention.

Westwood again making some nice saves tonight. He's looking good.

Edit: McCarthy had a quiet game, but I wouldn't be worried about that. It can be hard for a number 10 to impose themselves on a game and especially for a young inexperienced one in a new team.

Raskolnikov

noodler wrote: »

Well thats not true either in fairness.

Up until this season, most Reading fans had given up on him. I'm delighted has proved me (and them) wrong.

elefant

master-t wrote: »

That was me being picky

I know you wern't with Keogh, but I was just highlighting were Keane is so lethal I guess.

Don't get me wrong, I rate Long highly, but I don't think it is fair to just drop Keane. I think he would push Doyle though as they have the same attributes and Long has a better chance of scoring potentially.

Perhaps 3 up top??? :P

Well that sounds more reasonable than "I'm not gonna even bother addressing that" anyway! Maybe it wouldn't be fair to just drop Keane, but I'm just looking at it in terms of form and what I think each player offers.

(And three up top does sound good.. at least we'd be good to watch!)

Warper

Keane has divided opinions for years now but he is still our best striker. He scores goals like no one else on the Irish team and will still be our No. 1 striker come Euro 2012 (if we make it). Yes, he has flaws but I would pick him above Doyle/Long without hesitation.

smallerthanyou

Best 35e i ever spent. Ridiculously entertaining! Much made up for the crap of saturdays second half.

Paully D

Anywhere I can watch the highlights lads? Or is the full game on RTE Player yet?

donfers

gibson and keogh, simply not good enough

when fahey came off and gibson on we couldn't hold onto the ball

long was excellent and is developing into a really good player, similar to doyle in some ways in that he'll fight all day for you and is surprisingly good in the air for a guy who isn't that tall (people forget that spring and timing are as important, if not more so than height in terms of heading ability)

as others have said it was a moronic decision to play kelly atc entre-half and clark at left-back when kelly is much better at full back and clark in the centre, a decision that simply defies logic

McCarthy did ok but is better a bit deeper, he's not ready to play that support striker/attacking midfielder role

all in all some strange positional decisions from trap

Conclusions:

top marks to fahey and long, they have made themselves strong contenders for starting spots

but trap being trap, nothing will change......has the guy even heard of wesley hoolahan? surely a better bet than treacy or keogh and please it's time to tell killer kilbane thanks but no thanks, his record of 65 consecutive competitive appearances is an embarrassment - coleman can play there or o'shea or ward or kelly or cunningham when fit or shane ferguson when he declares or me

thumbs down to keogh and gibson, they have shown that they maybe should be dropped from the squad until they display better quality

TheRedDevil10

when did delaney and stokes get called into the squad ?

elefant

After the FYROM game I think...

TheRedDevil10

Paully D wrote: »

Anywhere I can watch the highlights lads? Or is the full game on RTE Player yet?

not until 11:50 i'm afraid http://www.rte.ie/sport/livestreaming/soccer.html

Paully D

TheRedDevil10 wrote: »

not until 11:50 i'm afraid http://www.rte.ie/sport/livestreaming/soccer.html

No bother, cheers for the link. I'll take an extra long lunch tomorrow and watch it :P

Anything interesting said between the lads in the studio after the game like last Saturday :pac:

K-9

You can't judge much on Clark and especially compare him to Kilbane on that. It was a makeshift defence and he played out of position.

partyndbs

4-3-3 should our formation.

doyle or long up front. keane on bench, mcgeady and duff on wings. fahey mccarthy and a strong dm whelan prob

Jordonvito

Just back from the match, Shane Long was excellent, his best performance in an Ireland jersey yet

-he won nearly every ball that Westwood hoofed up to him, only 5'11 too.

-he held the ball up and brought other players into the game

-showed fantastic pace for the penalty

-and scored a goal

I'd be very surprised if he isn't playing in the Premiership next year.

cantgetright

Feared the worst when i knew they were 3-1 down. Not a bad score considering 9 players of the uruguayan team that started, played in the semi final of the world cup.

Nalz

Warper wrote: »

Keane has divided opinions for years now but he is still our best striker. He scores goals like no one else on the Irish team and will still be our No. 1 striker come Euro 2012 (if we make it). Yes, he has flaws but I would pick him above Doyle/Long without hesitation.

He's like that average kid you went to school with or played ball with underage that always nicked a goal or put in a decent shift. You just cant put your finger on it but he's so vital yet you know he's only average

CiaranC

Trilla wrote: »

He's like that average kid you went to school with or played ball with underage that always nicked a goal or put in a decent shift. You just cant put your finger on it but he's so vital yet you know he's only average

Played 105, scored 46. Not that hard to put your finger on it.

Watched the highlights there, looked an entertaining game. Fahey and Long looked very good. Very small crowd, how much were tickets?

LuckyLloyd

CiaranC wrote: »

Played 105, scored 46. Not that hard to put your finger on it.

It's really that simple. First name on the teamsheet.

Very small crowd, how much were tickets?

30 bills for the cheap seats.

Nalz

CiaranC wrote: »

Played 105, scored 46. Not that hard to put your finger on it

Yep true sorry my post didnt come out like I intended... and I'm struggling to rephrase its too late I'm tired!

Defo first choice forward by miles.

cantgetright

Trilla wrote: »

He's like that average kid you went to school with or played ball with underage that always nicked a goal or put in a decent shift. You just cant put your finger on it but he's so vital yet you know he's only average

You must of played with some average quality players

Michael Collins

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

30 bills for the cheap seats.

Yep, which is the entire upper tier. What was it for the lower tier?

If the premium section wasn't quite so big, it may not have looked as bad - the east upper and lower tiers weren't all that empty looking. The premium section in the Aviva seems nearly as big as the lower tier, money grabbing b...

CiaranC

If they knocked another tenner off Id nearly think about starting to go along again

revz

Was my first time in the new landsdowne; was a great match!
Really had a go in the 2nd half and I felt we were quite unlucky to not get an equaliser (was that goal offside?). Although our defending was a bit of a shambles so I guess we could easily have conceded a couple more....
Annoyed the FAI priced so many people out of it, the atmosphere did suffer a bit as a result. The lads who stand all match behind the goal fahey scored the peno in are really good at trying to get the atmosphere going but it was hard to get it to carry!
Uruguayan fans seemed like good craic as well

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Never EVER want to see Andy Keogh in an Ireland shirt again. And irritated as hell that Trap subbed Fahey for Gibson, just ripped the passing brain out of the midfield.

As for McCarthy, should have been playing deeper. Simple as.

Pauleta

Entertaining game for a friendly. Uruguay didnt look too bothered though.

Renn

What was the attendance?

joe316

Renn wrote: »

What was the attendance?

22000, which it wasnt, more like 15.

Renn

Wow, that's pathetic.

celtictiger32

Michael Collins wrote: »

Yep, which is the entire upper tier. What was it for the lower tier?

If the premium section wasn't quite so big, it may not have looked as bad - the east upper and lower tiers weren't all that empty looking. The premium section in the Aviva seems nearly as big as the lower tier, money grabbing b...

think the lower tier was 60 if im not mistaken..

time to review the prices again boys, it wasnt too many years ago ireland had a rep for filling out landsdowne for even the mediocre of friendlies

Coillte_Bhoy

celtictiger32 wrote: »

think the lower tier was 60 if im not mistaken..

time to review the prices again boys, it wasnt too many years ago ireland had a rep for filling out landsdowne for even the mediocre of friendlies

I certainly don't remember filling Landsdowne for any friendlies apart form England in '95. What games are you thinking of?

Het-Field

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

I certainly don't remember filling Landsdowne for any friendlies apart form England in '95. What games are you thinking of?

We can split hairs on the definition of "filling". However, I recall a plethora of packed houses prior to Trappatoni's arrival on the scene.

Friendlies against Argentina and Mexico in 1998 were full houses. Mick McCarthy's first game as manager in 1996 (a friendly against Russia) was sold out. All friendlies prior to USA 94 were packed out. At least two of the pre-World Cup '02 friendlies (at very least the Nigeria game) was sold out. The two friendlies against Brazil in 2004 & 2008 were virtual sell-outs. Further, even if the games didnt sell-out, most friendly international between 1990-2006 were robustly attended, and financially lucrative for the FAI.

It is only in recent years that friendly matches have become very poorly attended.

Coillte_Bhoy

Het-Field wrote: »

We can split hairs on the definition of "filling". However, I recall a plethora of packed houses prior to Trappatoni's arrival on the scene.

Friendlies against Argentina and Mexico in 1998 were full houses. Mick McCarthy's first game as manager in 1996 (a friendly against Russia) was sold out. All friendlies prior to USA 94 were packed out. At least two of the pre-World Cup '02 friendlies (at very least the Nigeria game) was sold out. The two friendlies against Brazil in 2004 & 2008 were virtual sell-outs. Further, even if the games didnt sell-out, most friendly international between 1990-2006 were robustly attended, and financially lucrative for the FAI.

It is only in recent years that friendly matches have become very poorly attended.

1994 friendlies:
V Russia 36,000
V Bolivia 32,000
V Czech republic 43,000

'98
V Argenantina 38,000
V Mexico 28,000

'02 friendlies
V USA 39,000
V Nigeria 42,000

Good attendances i agree but far from sell outs considering the capacity for friendlies would have been circa 50,000

Surprised at the attendaces in 04 and 05 for friendlies. 35k v China 42k Romania and 48k v Protugal so yes you have a point

Renn

I think it's a combination of price and just a poor style of football being played in the last few years. If Mick McCarthy was still about then I'd guess it wouldn't be as bad as it is now.