Munster v Leinster, Saturday 2nd April, 19.30. **Mod Warning. Read OP**.

Tim Robbins

CouchSmart wrote: »

Just watched the game again and took some notes for the stats fans. I have to say, based on the second half, Leinster deserved the loss. They were so headless, can't make those type of mistakes against Munster.

Couch and Phog - get into reffing or coaching. You'd be brilliant!
This is what makes boards great and why I never bother with the print media when it comes to rugby.

CouchSmart

buck65 wrote: »

I always thought the player had to be in possession to be tackled, Mafi tried to catch it knocked it back and was then tackled without the ball IMO but it was a 50/50 call.

Mafi had touched the ball putting him in possession. Perfect tackle, the player does not have to be under control of the ball as a certain commentator insinuated.

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Couch and Phog - get into reffing or coaching. You'd be brilliant!
This is what makes boards great and why I never bother with the print media when it comes to rugby.

Thanks, appreciate it.

twinytwo

phog wrote: »

That's kind of why I looked at it again, there weren't many times either team got into the 22 with ball in hand, actually Munster probably were slightly ahead on that stat - BOD, ROG or Warwick and Earls all chipped when it might have been better to keep ball in hand.

I think all of Leinster's re-starts were aimed at the Munster 22 and the majority if not all were dealt with by Munster so they never won a restart, strange that they never altered their restarts once they realsied that Munster were winning back the ball, not sure how many ROG would have kicked for Isa to counter but I cant recall it happening too often, if that was their plan.

i wondered this as well. Coughlan seemed to catch most of the restarts and apart from the time luke nailed him there seemed to be liitle advantage gained from kicking it so far each time.

CouchSmart

RE: Leinster kick offs. I'd suggest they were using the same one over and over as it's a decent option and gives nothing away as to the various options they'll use this week in the HEC. As for the last one, Sexton should've done better but it's an extremely hard to (a)put the ball where it can realistically be competed for and (b)for the forwards to actually win it, even if the kick is perfect. I think Johnny saw a weakness straight down the middle but Munster did well and gathered - game over.

Yeah I was surprised we never tried the "Restart to Horgan while packing the forwards on the other side" once, perhaps we rated Earls' high ball defence enough to not see it as a viable option?

phog

CouchSmart wrote: »

RE: Leinster kick offs. I'd suggest they were using the same one over and over as it's a decent option and gives nothing away as to the various options they'll use this week in the HEC. As for the last one, Sexton should've done better but it's an extremely hard to (a)put the ball where it can realistically be competed for and (b)for the forwards to actually win it, even if the kick is perfect. I think Johnny saw a weakness straight down the middle but Munster did well and gathered - game over.

Could very well be true about the re-starts in general but the last re-start was their last throw of the dice for Leinster and Munster had dealt with all the previous ones so why might Sexton have seen a perceived weakness at that stage of the game. Surely they had one up their sleeve that wouldn't leave them exposed for next week. Doubt Leicester are that foolish to only study re-starts from only one game either.

CouchSmart

phog wrote: »

Could very well be true about the re-starts in general but the last re-start was their last throw of the dice for Leinster and Munster had dealt with all the previous ones so why might Sexton have seen a perceived weakness at that stage of the game. Surely they had one up their sleeve that wouldn't leave them exposed for next week. Doubt Leicester are that foolish to only study re-starts from only one game either.

He changed it to a straight down the middle kick for the last two. The last one nearly worked but Warwick did well to collect it with a jumper in his way. I'm hoping we have some totally new kick off patterns set for Saturday but who knows. The long kick-offs to Coughlan was obviously a plan but I couldn't tell you why, perhaps to test Murray's box kicks?

twinytwo

phog wrote: »

Could very well be true about the re-starts in general but the last re-start was their last throw of the dice for Leinster and Munster had dealt with all the previous ones so why might Sexton have seen a perceived weakness at that stage of the game. Surely they had one up their sleeve that wouldn't leave them exposed for next week. Doubt Leicester are that foolish to only study re-starts from only one game either.

might have been worth while "fluffing" the kick. Munster had horan and hayes on at that stage. Leinster could easily have turned it or got the peno off the resulting scrum.

Mr.Applepie

twinytwo wrote: »

might have been worth while "fluffing" the kick. Munster had horan and hayes on at that stage. Leinster could easily have turned it or got the peno off the resulting scrum.

They turned it twice without getting a peno... third time lucky?

twinytwo

twinytwo wrote: »

might have been worth while "fluffing" the kick. Munster had horan and hayes on at that stage. Leinster could easily have turned it or got the peno off the resulting scrum.

No chance imo. Just like everyone knew that O'Gara was going to kick that last penalty the second the whistle went, if there was one more scrum, I'd have utmost faith in the Munster Pack remaining solid. Shown time and time again that they have "the top 4 inches" that EOS used to always talk about, and the ability to find some strength out of nowhere.

In my opinion, having been beaten in most of the scrums throughout the game, a scrum on the half way line with 40 seconds left to go would not have been lost, no way.

TheRevolution

Not with that ref anyway..

Sin a bhfuil

According to the tv time, the game restart was after the 80 mins was up. It was surprising that there was a restart in the first place.

Podge_irl

Sin a bhfuil wrote: »

According to the tv time, the game restart was after the 80 mins was up. It was surprising that there was a restart in the first place.

Kick went over before the 80 minutes was up though. Not sure of the technicalities of the whole thing.

buck65

Munster's scrum was well on top until Hayes and Horan came on but then stuttered, a botch restart would have been game over without a scrum as the time was up as Sexton kicked.

Podge_irl

buck65 wrote: »

Munster's scrum was well on top until Hayes and Horan came on but then stuttered

It was hardly on top, scrums were about even til the subs.

That last restart was just poor, no idea what they were thinking.

phog

Podge_irl wrote: »

It was hardly on top, scrums were about even til the subs.

That last restart was just poor, no idea what they were thinking.

Poor from both teams, Leinster for kicking straight down the field and too deep for the chasers and Munster letting it throught the jumpers (MOD?) hands and down to Warwick, a knock-on there and it could have been curtains for us if the ref allowed time for the scrum or advantage.

Podge_irl

phog wrote: »

Poor from both teams, Leinster for kicking straight down the field and too deep for the chasers and Munster letting it throught the jumpers (MOD?) hands and down to Warwick, a knock-on there and it could have been curtains for us if the ref allowed time for the scrum or advantage.

Knock on would have been game over unless the ref adjudged it deliberate. Was all a bit scrappy.

tolosenc

Podge_irl wrote: »

Knock on would have been game over unless the ref adjudged it deliberate.

Not related to the game, I know, but there's an interesting one. A player may well intentionally "fumble" a pass to win the game. Hard to ref, that.

Risteard

tolosenc wrote: »

Not related to the game, I know, but there's an interesting one. A player may well intentionally "fumble" a pass to win the game. Hard to ref, that.

Could run the risk of the opposition picking it up and recovering possession though.

tolosenc

Risteard wrote: »

Could run the risk of the opposition picking it up and recovering possession though.

Well, obviously it's stupid, and no one should ever do it, but if there were 10m between them and the defender... I dunno.

GerM

tolosenc wrote: »

Not related to the game, I know, but there's an interesting one. A player may well intentionally "fumble" a pass to win the game. Hard to ref, that.

Could also run the risk of the referee saying there's time for the scrum; if he says there's time for the kick off then there's a small but significant chance he'll say the scrum should go ahead. That would give most teams clean ball with the outhalf in the pocket to go for the win. Would be surprised if any team would risk it.

phog

tolosenc wrote: »

Well, obviously it's stupid, and no one should ever do it, but if there were 10m between them and the defender... I dunno.

Bur surely if he had that much space and time he could kick the ball to touch - legally.

Tim Robbins

tolosenc wrote: »

Not related to the game, I know, but there's an interesting one. A player may well intentionally "fumble" a pass to win the game. Hard to ref, that.

Intentional fumble is a penalty. Very risky.

Podge_irl

I've always wondered whether a team would do it if they had a scrum that was definitely on top but were struggling to breach a team's defence. Highly unlikely, but the thought has crossed my mind before.

GerM

Podge_irl wrote: »

I've always wondered whether a team would do it if they had a scrum that was definitely on top but were struggling to breach a team's defence. Highly unlikely, but the thought has crossed my mind before.

It's a peculiar one. As Tim says above, an intentional fumble is a penalty but there have been regular examples where this is not the case. Many a time I've seen a 9 pick up the ball and just drop it forward when they have a penalty advantage. Perhaps it just wasn't enforced in the past as I haven't seen it in a while.

Law 12.1
(e) Intentional knock or throw forward. A player must not intentionally knock the ball forward with hand or arm, nor throw forward.
Sanction: Penalty kick. A penalty try must be awarded if the offence prevents a try that would probably otherwise have been scored

Slightly different but same ball park, I'm sure people recall when Italy (I think it was the 2008 6N) intentionally scuffed the kick off so we would have to pack down in the hope they'd win a penalty of the resulting scrum. There's a fine line between it all.

phog

Podge_irl wrote: »

I've always wondered whether a team would do it if they had a scrum that was definitely on top but were struggling to breach a team's defence. Highly unlikely, but the thought has crossed my mind before.

Didn't Italy kick out on the full or not go 10 to start one of the 6Ns games against Ireland in the last few years. Resulting in a scrum on the halfway line for us. Cant remember how that went.

durkadurka

Schmidt saying Jennings will be fit apparently