Why are teachers not monitored/assessed regularly

Naikon

dillo2k10 wrote: »

So if we can just teach ourself everything then why bother having teachers. There is no way that I could pick up a math book and teach myself higher level math.

If a teacher is crap the student should try to learn as much as they can him/her self, but if they had a good teacher that made things interesting they would do better.

It isn't a good enough excuse to say I didn't get into University because I had a crappy Irish teacher, but it would certainly help if you didn't.

At leaving cert(17-20) Nope. At that level, I would expect somebody to have figured out not to rely solely on teachers for their own learning. Even if the teachers in question have good intentions, Who is to say studying on your own isn't a more viable means of learning?

dillo2k10

Naikon wrote: »

At leaving cert(17-20) Nope. At that level, I would expect somebody to have figured out not to rely solely on teachers for their own learning. Even if the teachers in question have good intentions. Who is to say studying on your own isn't a more viable means of learning?

I'm saying that! If I don't understand something I can try to figure it out with the math book or online for hours. But then if a teacher explains it to me I pick it up in minutes, studying on your own is definitely not a better way to learn.

Naikon

dillo2k10 wrote: »

I'm saying that! If I don't understand something I can try to figure it out with the math book or online for hours. But then if a teacher explains it to me I pick it up in minutes, studying on your own is definitely not a better way to learn.

Provided your teacher actually gives a toss. Even then, picking up the answer with a google search works fine for all but the most obscure of cases. From my own perspective, there is nothing better than checking out online documentation when a problem is encountered. Hell, most LC subjects are so narrow in depth, you could basically do all the questions from the book/exam papers and have a reasonable chance at doing well. Clarification is a break from the norm. You will study more than you will ask for help. Ask a teacher an out of the ordinary question and see how they react. The sylabus is clearly defined for all subjects.

Self learning is the only way I can truely master something, but I understand some people insist on the spoonfeeding. I bet you think I am trolling.

cherie1990

Naikon wrote: »

Provided your teacher actually gives a toss. Even then, picking up the answer with a google search works fine for all but the most obscure of cases. From my own perspective, there is nothing better than checking out online documentation when a problem is encountered. Hell, most LC subjects are so narrow in depth, you could basically do all the questions from the book/exam papers and have a reasonable chance at doing well. Clarification is a break from the norm. You will study more than you will ask for help.

You seem like a complete asshole from your posts on this an on other threads

dillo2k10

Naikon wrote: »

Provided your teacher actually gives a toss.

The whole point is that you need the teachers to actually care and to want to help the students and you obviously just agreed with that.

Naikon

dillo2k10 wrote: »

you obviously just agreed with that.

Where did I mention that?

randylonghorn

cherie1990 wrote: »

You seem like a complete asshole from your posts on this an on other threads

Disagreeing with someone is not an excuse for insulting the person. Please read the charter before posting here again. Infracted.



Ok, can we generally calm down a bit, please.

The fact that different people have different learning styles has been mentioned, and this is backed up by a lot of research. At a very simplistic level, this includes the idea that some people take more naturally to independent learning than others, and will survive better without constant teacher support and supervision. There is also a link with the stage of personal development of the individual; some teenagers are more mature at 16 / 17 than others, and these are usually the students who are able to take more responsibility for their own learning, and who may even prefer to do so.

In my own opinion, there is too much spoon-feeding at second-level, especially in senior cycle, and this has a very negative effect on students who progress to third level and have a panic attack at the thought of being expected to take some responsibility for their own learning, and for tackling independent research and learning. The grind school culture which has invaded the Irish educational system over the last decade or so has worsened this problem: teachers in normal schools are now expected to provide copious notes and even sample essays for the student to learn off! This isn't education, it's rote memorisation; and it's terrible preparation for third level!

I'm not making the argument though that teachers aren't important, or that it should be left to students to "paddle their own canoe". Teachers are employed to teach and to guide and support students, and students do have a right to expect them to do that. Rather I am saying that I would like to see the current drift towards the utilitarian grind school M'Choakumchild (pace Dickens) approach reversed, and schools and teachers being encouraged to once again teach and educate.

Strangely, the biggest barriers to that happening are probably (a) the attitude of parents and students and (b) the points race (and the two are inextricably connected).

rainbowtrout

randylonghorn wrote: »

Disagreeing with someone is not an excuse for insulting the person. Please read the charter before posting here again. Infracted.



Ok, can we generally calm down a bit, please.

The fact that different people have different learning styles has been mentioned, and this is backed up by a lot of research. At a very simplistic level, this includes the idea that some people take more naturally to independent learning than others, and will survive better without constant teacher support and supervision. There is also a link with the stage of personal development of the individual; some teenagers are more mature at 16 / 17 than others, and these are usually the students who are able to take more responsibility for their own learning, and who may even prefer to do so.

In my own opinion, there is too much spoon-feeding at second-level, especially in senior cycle, and this has a very negative effect on students who progress to third level and have a panic attack at the thought of being expected to take some responsibility for their own learning, and for tackling independent research and learning. The grind school culture which has invaded the Irish educational system over the last decade or so has worsened this problem: teachers in normal schools are now expected to provide copious notes and even sample essays for the student to learn off! This isn't education, it's rote memorisation; and it's terrible preparation for third level!

I'm not making the argument though that teachers aren't important, or that it should be left to students to "paddle their own canoe". Teachers are employed to teach and to guide and support students, and students do have a right to expect them to do that. Rather I am saying that I would like to see the current drift towards the utilitarian grind school M'Choakumchild (pace Dickens) approach reversed, and schools and teachers being encouraged to once again teach and educate.

Strangely, the biggest barriers to that happening are probably (a) the attitude of parents and students and (b) the points race (and the two are inextricably connected).

Yes, I agree. No spoons are allowed in my class. It's also quite depressing taking students for grinds, which I've done every once in a while. While I would often get a student that just needs a few things clarified and a bit of extra help, I've noticed a huge shift in attitude where if I ask a student to write down an equation or chemical formula etc, they look at me as if I have two heads and wonder why I'm not writing it for them or not handing them a bundle of photocopied notes. I think they are also under the impression that if they turn up for the grind that just by being in my presence will be enough for the information to magically sink in to their heads and they won't have to do any work and I'll do it all for them.

Teachers are there to teach and to guide and to advise, but students who are there to learn should be able to do a bit of research themselves. Enquiring minds are becoming less prevalent in schools. Many students are too lazy to look anything up themselves.

Chuchoter

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Teachers are there to teach and to guide and to advise, but students who are there to learn should be able to do a bit of research themselves. Enquiring minds are becoming less prevalent in schools. Many students are too lazy to look anything up themselves.

I think that inquiring minds are becoming less prevalent in schools because doing anything outside the box is discouraged. I used to be really into thinking up new experiments and doing really, really complicated and in depth projects and you know what? I'm just not bothered anymore. The teachers can never answer my questions and give me funny looks when I try to take an interest in my subject

rainbowtrout

crayolastereo wrote: »

I think that inquiring minds are becoming less prevalent in schools because doing anything outside the box is discouraged. I used to be really into thinking up new experiments and doing really, really complicated and in depth projects and you know what? I'm just not bothered anymore. The teachers can never answer my questions and give me funny looks when I try to take an interest in my subject

I think from your other posts that it's quite clear you don't have much time for your chemistry teacher. That's fair enough, none of us know your chemistry teacher. However it wouldn't be fair to assume all teachers are like that. I gave my first years a week to do a mini project a couple of weeks ago, they did all the research themselves. Some were good, some were incredibly lazy. However at the end of the day I still have to get the course done so I'm restricted in the amount of time I can give to side projects.

There is quite a lot of debate and banter about various topics in agriculture in my ag science classes. And I encourage it.

Chuchoter

I'm talking about a large percentage of my teachers, though there are exceptions. I've given up on putting any thought into English or Irish either, because I know its say what the teacher says or get no marks. This however, could be put down to the nature of our education system anyway. (Also,project and experiment wise, this was all in TY)

rainbowtrout

crayolastereo wrote: »

I'm talking about a large percentage of my teachers, though there are exceptions. I've given up on putting any thought into English or Irish either, because I know its say what the teacher says or get no marks. This however, could be put down to the nature of our education system anyway. (Also,project and experiment wise, this was all in TY)

Some schools have better TY programs than others to be fair. Creativity in essay writing is very much encouraged by our English teachers, couldn't speak for the Irish teachers.

Teachers have a lot of work to get done for JC and LC exams. If they didn't do it they would have both parents and students lambasting them for not preparing students adequately for the exams. So sometimes going off on a tangent isn't possible but creativity I think can and should be encouraged where possible.

NnaYllek

In my opinion theres no perfect way to inspect a teacher.
Looking at grades isnt fair as its stated in a comment above students with a natural ability in a subject weather(Before anyone comments I know its the wrong use of weather but I dont know how to spell the other one )their teacher is bad or good will do well. I was looking for JC maths I got a great teacher for mixed level first year and another great teacher for ordinary (the lowest ordinary level class I may add, as in we were borderline foundation) even though my teachers were brilliant I didnt do amazing or great cos I`m not good at the subject and no one in my class was (but we would have got a Ds or C s instead of the fails we would have got)
Student complaints wont work. I know in my school anyone people can be unfair to teachers and dislike certain because they got in trouble for not doing homework or something else thats ridiculous. Getting parents to sign the complaints wont help. Your parents arent in school with you they dont know if your telling lies or the truth about teacher complaints
The only completely fair way to judge (I stress I know this could never happen due to money and whatever but it really is the only fair way to judge and it could be illegal! is to have hidden cameras in classrooms and show the footage to inspectors then they`ll know if its the teachers or class!
Sorry for really long post!!

NotExactly

NnaYllek wrote: »

hidden cameras in classrooms and show the footage to inspectors then they`ll know if its the teachers or class!

Can't see it happening TBH.

Student2

I wish my English teacher was monitored.. I gave her 3 Hamlet essays (only homework she gave us all year) back in October and she still hasn't corrected them (it's now April!!)
I tried to research some stuff in books because she wasn't doing much with us but then she told us never to use revision books because everyone else in the country will give a similar answer, which is fair enough until when I was looking up notes on the internet I discovered that my teacher's notes were all, word for word, from sparknotes . com.. I wouldn't mind too much apart from her complete hypocrisy in the situation!!
Anyway, teachers should be monitored, but I don't know how? Maybe if they have monthly meetings with the prinicipal and discuss class progress (grades, work covered (because it's nearly the end of 5th year and all we've done is Hamlet and watched Casablanca) etc.) Other ways would probably be too expensive..

NotExactly

Student2 wrote: »

I wish my English teacher was monitored.. I gave her 3 Hamlet essays (only homework she gave us all year) back in October and she still hasn't corrected them (it's now April!!)

Maybe she forgot? :rolleyes:

Student2

NotExactly wrote: »

Maybe she forgot? :rolleyes:

Well, we do remind her everyday, if not at least once a week..
She says she's too "busy" with her TYs and planning for her wedding..

LilMissCiara

Student2 wrote: »

Well, we do remind her everyday, if not at least once a week..
She says she's too "busy" with her TYs and planning for her wedding..

You should be telling your principal, not boards..!

That's not acceptable, her personal life should not affect her work life... And 5th years are more important than TYs so far as work goes.