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What constitutes "abuse" of non-members in AH?

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    #92
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    Dudess... correct, we are talking about curbing the extremes here.


    TZ, AlmightyCushion put it very well there.


    The guidelines havent changed, we're just looking at trying to define things a little better so we are all on the same page. I'm working with AH mods because to be honest if the definition works for AH then it should work everywhere.

    It will be applied across the site and I will say this:

    1. "Dont be a dick" is still guideline #1. Sitewide.
    2. "Be Civil" is a requirement. Sitewide.
    3. The mods will always be the arbitrators of those guidelines with recourse to the DRF for appeal.


    All I'm trying to do is see if we cant all get on the same page and you know... more than 95% of AH is actually fine, great. I wish everyone would stop making a drama out of this.


    DeV.


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    #93
    TheZohanS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,582 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    Depends what your definition of attack the post is. Some people seem to think you can say anything about a post and it's still attacking the post and not the poster. e.g. quoting a post and saying "Only a spasticated retard would say some something as idiotic as that" while commenting on the post is still attacking the poster. Attacking the post means attacking what the person is saying and arguing the points they raise.

    I see what your saying, the reason I ask is because it has further implications for what counts as abuse towards non-users.

    I'll give this as an example it was an opening post, there were no edits made whatsoever.:
    standard ground-shipping
    can u get standard ground when ur buying stuff from us. im gettin a few things but unsure if i can select this option

    actuali i found out its fine smile.gif
    And I quoted it and added:
    That has to be one of the most retarded posts I've ever seen on boards...
    Which in fairness to me it was as the poster actually already had the answer when he/she posted the thread.

    Now I didn't attack the poster, I attacked the post,( txt spk included) granted I did it in a manner that was not verbose.

    I have often been called on my posts, have absolutely no problem with that. They have on occasion been called "ridiculous", "strange", "bs" yadda yadda. On no occasion have I taken an attack on my post as personal.

    Is the above abuse to a poster? I personally don't think it is.


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    #94
    Gunsfortoys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭Gunsfortoys


    Dudess wrote: »
    Bet ya couldn't.

    ?

    *sigh*

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055192287

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056081109
    The above threads are pretty similar, there is nothing wrong with them, it is just that if it where the opposite gender, it would be "degrading" or some such.

    I am NOT continuing this crap, all I said was that there are SIMILAR threads in other forums (Using TLL as an example) that are the same as the Irelands sexiest woman thread.

    You can continue being patronising though, I just won't respond, as it is like arguing with a wall.


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    #95
    liah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭liah


    Gunsfortoys wrote: »
    *sigh*

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055192287

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056081109
    The above threads are pretty similar, there is nothing wrong with them, it is just that if it where the opposite gender, it would be "degrading" or some such.

    I am NOT continuing this crap, all I said was that there are SIMILAR threads in other forums (Using TLL as an example) that are the same as the Irelands sexiest woman thread.

    You can continue being patronising though, I just won't respond, as it is like arguing with a wall.

    No it wouldn't. Loads of men (and women!) participate in "sexy women" threads all across boards, doesn't tGC have the equivalent? I know FlirTar does. What's the problem with that?

    And loads of men participate in the emotions thread, too - I've never seen anyone refer to either as degrading.


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    #96
    Gunsfortoys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭Gunsfortoys


    liah wrote: »
    No it wouldn't. Loads of men (and women!) participate in "sexy women" threads all across boards, doesn't tGC have the equivalent? I know FlirTar does. What's the problem with that?

    And loads of men participate in the emotions thread, too - I've never seen anyone refer to either as degrading.

    Then why was Irelands sexiest woman closed?

    Due to some disgruntled posters saying some things about some of the women?

    All I am saying is that some forums seem to get special preference on what they can say about people.

    I was using those threads as an example.

    Also, what in the blue hell is Flirtar?!


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    #97
    liah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭liah


    Gunsfortoys wrote: »
    Then why was Irelands sexiest woman closed?

    Due to some disgruntled posters saying some things about some of the women?

    All I am saying is that some forums seem to get special preference on what they can say about people.

    I was using those threads as an example.

    Also, what in the blue hell is Flirtar?!

    I genuinely don't know why the thread was closed, you'd have to take it up with the mod who closed it. I don't know of anyone who's stated it needs to be closed, anyway, or any women who've complained about it. That said, I didn't really read the thread, so I may have missed something. Again, I'm positive there's another thread in like BGRH or tGC that features hot women.

    FlirTar is Tar.Aldarion's flirt forum, featuring the amazing 'pwetty girls' thread. You should check it out sometime. Even I've contributed.

    Anyway, for every topic you take offense to in tLL there's a topic a woman takes offense to in tGC. 100% guaranteed. It's just how this stuff works when people have an "us vs. them" mentality and a large userbase, regardless of gender. I wish people would stop thinking in terms of "us vs. them" and be civil with one another. I really don't think tLL is worse off than any other forum in this respect.


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    #98
    Gunsfortoys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭Gunsfortoys


    liah wrote: »
    I genuinely don't know why the thread was closed, you'd have to take it up with the mod who closed it. I don't know of anyone who's stated it needs to be closed, anyway, or any women who've complained about it. That said, I didn't really read the thread, so I may have missed something. Again, I'm positive there's another thread in like BGRH or tGC that features hot women.

    FlirTar is Tar.Aldarion's flirt forum, featuring the amazing 'pwetty girls' thread. You should check it out sometime. Even I've contributed.

    Anyway, for every topic you take offense to in tLL there's a topic a woman takes offense to in tGC. 100% guaranteed. It's just how this stuff works when people have an "us vs. them" mentality and a large userbase, regardless of gender. I wish people would stop thinking in terms of "us vs. them" and be civil with one another. I really don't think tLL is worse off than any other forum in this respect.

    Every time I have seen an offensive post in TGC, I have seen it closed and the user banned.

    Not so much in your LL.


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    #99
    liah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭liah


    Gunsfortoys wrote: »
    Every time I have seen an offensive post in TGC, I have seen it closed and the user banned.

    Not so much in your LL.

    Then please, show me some. I haven't seen that happen but I would like to be made aware of it so I can report the posts.


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    #100
    Gunsfortoys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭Gunsfortoys


    liah wrote: »
    Then please, show me some. I haven't seen that happen but I would like to be made aware of it so I can report the posts.

    No, this is pointless, I have explained everything above, but again, talking to a wall.


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    #101
    liah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭liah


    Gunsfortoys wrote: »
    No, this is pointless, I have explained everything above, but again, talking to a wall.

    Look, all I'm asking is for substantiation to your claims. That's literally it. I'm trying to be diplomatic here. I don't see why it's such a hassle - would you believe a rumour about a person based on hearsay? I'd just like to know what's actually going on, and am trying to make this conversation constructive by tackling the issue based on what's actually there instead of what's speculated to be there.

    It's not pointless, as if evidence is there we can work on finding a solution to the problem. But if there isn't, then what do you expect to change?


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    #102
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Gunsfortoys wrote: »
    No, this is pointless, I have explained everything above, but again, talking to a wall.
    Flirtar is a Cuckoo's Nest offshoot. You also haven't read this thread properly, or are being disingenuous - it was established nobody has a problem with the sexiest women thread. No need to pretend they do. AC has been asked as to why he closed it. DeVore also said something like that does not breach the civility rule.
    You're backing yourself up with "woulda" kinda stuff rather than actual facts - and then resorting to the "They're ganging up on me" tactic when asked to provide evidence. No, those threads would not be considered degrading if they featured the opposite sex - that is all in your head. There's such a thread in TGC ("Easy on the eye") and there have been in BGRH, as well as the aforementioned Flirtar.

    I don't see how pointing out the flaws in your claims is patronising either. Is disagreeing with a person/asking them for back-up patronising? Hell of a lot of patronising people on this website so.


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    #103
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    I don't think tGC is comparable, it's a different ethos there than tLL, the main similarity being they are aimed primarily for one sex.

    If anything it's an anti AH board that requires heavier moderation exactly because AH type responses aren't allowed. tLL don't allow AH type responses but for different reasons again.

    It has been pointed numerous times that they aren't comparable, some still choose to compare them. When it was set up I think a few males thought it was going to be that, they didn't get their wish.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #104
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Whether they're comparable or not isn't the point - the point is that threads featuring posters' most desired females exist on this website and there isn't a stink kicked up about them by women.


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    #105
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    I don't understand why people are giving out about the Ladies Lounge, or rather why blokes are giving out about it. It's a place where mostly women post & reading it - as a bloke - it just shows some of the differences between the sexes. There's nothing more sinister to it than that.

    Sometimes I laugh when reading it, sometimes I laugh at it, sometimes I read stuff that could be considered "sexist", but only in a world where political correctness would strive to ignore that there are inherent differences between men & women. And that's a world I dislike immensely.

    Frankly, I wouldn't give a toss if there was a thread there full of reasons why all men are bastards. There isn't, but if there was, could that be considered sexist? Meh. Is it really that important is the real question.

    The one thing that baffles me about that place however, (besides the inner workings of the female brain!) is the blokes who post their photos in the Know Your Loungers thread. That's just weird.


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    #106
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    starbelgrade wrote: »

    The one thing that baffles me about that place however, (besides the inner workings of the female brain!) is the blokes who post their photos in the Know Your Loungers thread. That's just weird.

    You see when a Daddy Rabbit wants to make babies with a Mummy Rabbit sometimes he has to pretend that he really, really understands her innermost feelings and fears and really, really isn't like the other nasty Daddy Rabbits.....


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    #107
    Gunsfortoys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭Gunsfortoys


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    I don't understand why people are giving out about the Ladies Lounge, or rather why blokes are giving out about it. It's a place where mostly women post & reading it - as a bloke - it just shows some of the differences between the sexes. There's nothing more sinister to it than that.

    Sometimes I laugh when reading it, sometimes I laugh at it, sometimes I read stuff that could be considered "sexist", but only in a world where political correctness would strive to ignore that there are inherent differences between men & women. And that's a world I dislike immensely.

    Frankly, I wouldn't give a toss if there was a thread there full of reasons why all men are bastards. There isn't, but if there was, could that be considered sexist? Meh. Is it really that important is the real question.

    The one thing that baffles me about that place however, (besides the inner workings of the female brain!) is the blokes who post their photos in the Know Your Loungers thread. That's just weird.


    That is the thing though, I don't care what they say, but when the same people criticise a hottest woman in Ireland thread it stinks of hypocrisy.

    That is why I said "one rule for some, another for others".


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    #108
    Silverfish
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,696 Mod ✭✭✭✭Silverfish


    Gunsfortoys wrote: »
    That is the thing though, I don't care what they say, but when the same people criticise a hottest woman in Ireland thread it stinks of hypocrisy.

    That is why I said "one rule for some, another for others".

    I feel I have to interject at this point.

    What 'same people' are you talking about? Perhaps you can ask AlmightyCushion, who deleted the thread, to explain why he did so, and whether it was due to the 'same people' you refer to kicking up a stink.

    To the best of my knowledge, the 'tll' you are referring to did not kick up any stink, anywhere, about that thread.

    That point was already clarified to you in this thread.


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    #109
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Dudess wrote: »
    Flirtar is a Cuckoo's Nest offshoot. You also haven't read this thread properly, or are being disingenuous - it was established nobody has a problem with the sexiest women thread. No need to pretend they do. AC has been asked as to why he closed it. DeVore also said something like that does not breach the civility rule.
    .............


    ....yet it is still locked, for being in breach of the "civility" rule. Thus its only a matter of time till similar is closed elsewhere.


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    #110
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Gunsfortoys wrote: »
    That is the thing though, I don't care what they say, but when the same people criticise a hottest woman in Ireland thread it stinks of hypocrisy.

    That is why I said "one rule for some, another for others".

    Well it would be if it happened, I'm sure a few have.

    tGC "totti" thread was set up with strict rules and is highly moderated, for good reasons and after feedback, different to the tLL.

    I take tLL for what it is. If a thread of interest turns up in my RSS feed on Boards, I'll read it. I think what you are saying may have been an issue a year or so ago, it hasn't struck me as standing out lately, rather like AH has less of the sexist comments. Then again, I don't take a particular interest in it.

    I wouldn't take the "all men are b*stards" posts" seriously, often it's a one off venting posts. If a poster shows that bias on a regular basis, I'd challenge it.

    Sometimes if you read something enough or want something to be there, you'll find it! Used to it myself!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #111
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    Gunsfortoys wrote: »
    Every time I have seen an offensive post in TGC, I have seen it closed and the user banned.

    Not so much in your LL.

    If you have a problem with posts in tLL, please report them.


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    #112
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Gunsfortoys wrote: »
    That is the thing though, I don't care what they say, but when the same people criticise a hottest woman in Ireland thread it stinks of hypocrisy.
    Who?

    You're making stuff up - and there's a whiff of troll there tbh (the way you're just plucking stuff from the sky to rile). Not once have you backed yourself up - and you think it's objectionable for people to find fault with that? :confused:


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    #113
    Gunsfortoys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭Gunsfortoys


    Dudess wrote: »
    Who?

    You're making stuff up - and there's a whiff of troll there tbh (the way you're just plucking stuff from the sky to rile). Not once have you backed yourself up - and you think it's objectionable for people to find fault with that? :confused:

    Stop calling me a troll.

    I backed myself up when I posted examples a few posts back.

    As usual you ignore them and continue on your little tirade.


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    #114
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    But I didn't ignore them, I even stated what I reckoned they'd be before you posted them. It's been pointed out to you there are similar threads featuring women on other forums - and you're the one who has been doing the ignoring of that.

    Stop calling you a troll? Well, if the cap fits...


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    #115
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Gentlefolk, most of us are on the same side here, I believe......


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    #116
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    Nodin wrote: »
    Gentlefolk, most of us are on the same side here, I believe......

    It's just that pernicious female conspiracy against us. I'm about to burst into tears here.


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    #117
    Gunsfortoys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭Gunsfortoys


    Dudess wrote: »
    But I didn't ignore them, I even stated what I reckoned they'd be before you posted them. It's been pointed out to you there are similar threads featuring women on other forums - and you're the one who has been doing the ignoring of that.

    Stop calling you a troll? Well, if the cap fits...

    Are you ****ing kidding me?

    Look at the threads.

    You have to be one of the most cantankerous, condescending posters on here, always have to be right no matter what, if the facts are staring you in the face and anyone that disagrees with you, they are troll.

    I said there are similar threads to the Irelands sexiest woman thread in TLL and other forums that have been left open even if they would come across as "degrading". I have posted some of the threads in question above to verify that.

    I am out of here as it is pointless.


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    #118
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Gunsfortoys wrote: »
    Are you ****ing kidding me?

    Look at the threads.
    Same ones on TGC etc as has been said to you repeatedly - are you ****ing kidding me?
    You have to be one of the most cantankerous, condescending posters on here, always have to be right no matter what
    Because of me disagreeing with you. I've a feeling you wouldn't say the above if I always agreed with you. This is a discussion forum where people make counter-arguments and back them up. If you think that constitutes always having to be right, why are you here?
    if the facts are staring you in the face and anyone that disagrees with you, they are troll.
    "Anyone"? More making stuff up. You seem like a troll because you are throwing accusations out there that you won't (can't) back up and ignoring the counterpoints. What facts are staring me in the face?
    I said there are similar threads to the Irelands sexiest woman thread in TLL and other forums that have been left open even if they would come across as "degrading".
    That's not totally what you said. Initially you claimed such threads were only left open on TLL but not other forums where the subjects are women, but that's not true. And why are you ignoring that nobody knows why the hell AC closed the sexiest women thread? It wasn't closed because of complaints, he closed it for some reason unbeknownst to anyone, it would seem.
    I am out of here as it is pointless.
    I'd be out of here if I couldn't back myself up too...


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    #119
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    Ok we're getting off topic and to be honest, unless someone has something revolutionary to say I would like some time to go and discuss it with the mods/cmods/etc and get their take on it.

    DeV.


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    #120
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    stovelid wrote: »
    It's just that pernicious female conspiracy against us. I'm about to burst into tears here.

    ?


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    #121
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    Dudess wrote: »
    And why are you ignoring that nobody knows why the hell AC closed the sexiest women thread? It wasn't closed because of complaints, he closed it for some reason unbeknownst to anyone, it would seem.

    I explained it back in post 14. It was closed because some of the posts are considered degrading and hence in breach of the site civility rule.


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