What constitutes "abuse" of non-members in AH?

Gunsfortoys

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I explained it back in post 14. It was closed because some of the posts are considered degrading and hence in breach of the site civility rule.

Don't let facts get in the way. She is still right.:rolleyes:

Nodin

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I explained it back in post 14. It was closed because some of the posts are considered degrading and hence in breach of the site civility rule.

Who considered them "degrading"?

If it was the moderator who closed it who consided them thus, was there consultation with other moderators of AH to see if they agreed with that judgement? Bearing in mind this is a "new" interpretation, I would think a joint approach would be required.

AlmightyCushion

Nodin wrote: »

Who considered them "degrading"?

If it was the moderator who closed it who consided them thus, was there consultation with other moderators of AH to see if they agreed with that judgement? Bearing in mind this is a "new" interpretation, I would think a joint approach would be required.

I asked in the mod forum what should we do if this thread was to get bumped seeing as it would now be in breach of the rules. The response was to lock it.

Dudess

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

Don't let facts get in the way. She is still right.:rolleyes:

No I actually DO use facts - you however... don't.

Insect Overlord

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

Don't let facts get in the way. She is still right.:rolleyes:

You're coming across really badly in this thread. It's weakening whatever point you were trying to make.

Dudess

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I explained it back in post 14. It was closed because some of the posts are considered degrading and hence in breach of the site civility rule.

Well that's totally heavyhanded - which I presume is the point you're making. DeVore, do you agree the "Ireland's sexiest women" thread should be closed on the grounds of having "degrading" content?

starbelgrade

Dudess wrote: »

Well that's totally heavyhanded - which I presume is the point you're making. DeVore, do you agree the "Ireland's sexiest women" thread should be closed on the grounds of having "degrading" content?

From what I read of it, it was degrading.

If by degrading, you mean a kind of Father Ted, "they all have lovely bottoms" type of degrading.

AlmightyCushion

Dudess wrote: »

Well that's totally heavyhanded - which I presume is the point you're making. DeVore, do you agree the "Ireland's sexiest women" thread should be closed on the grounds of having "degrading" content?

starbelgrade wrote: »

From what I read of it, it was degrading.

If by degrading, you mean a kind of Father Ted, "they all have lovely bottoms" type of degrading.

So you don't think posts like the following aren't abusive and degrading?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70710398&postcount=1698
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70733595&postcount=1707
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=71275995&postcount=1953
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70971239&postcount=1802
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70971340&postcount=1803

There were threads with tamer stuff than that closed as well.

Dudess

Some of them, some too mild to constitute the above though... so delete them instead of locking the entire thread?

5starpool

DeVore wrote: »

Ok we're getting off topic and to be honest, unless someone has something revolutionary to say I would like some time to go and discuss it with the mods/cmods/etc and get their take on it.

DeV.

Out of curiousity, why can't they post here? I realise there is a higher noise to signal ratio in here, and I also realise that for good reason, you (and by you I mean all admins) hold greater store in what the mods/cmods say than the general populace due to the generally clearer heads and track records of the grouping, but if there is something to discuss in site terms that a thread like this is meant to contribute to, then having the real discussion take pace behind closed doors is rendering the existence of this thread and others like it pointless apart from having raised the issue in the first place.

Could this not be an issue for feed forward (public) perhaps? Having it there does not mean the discussion has to take months, or that it is ultimately any more democratic, but having a properly moderated to ensure that it doesn't go off topic like this one did, that can be contributed to by ALL interested parties, is one where the greater understanding can be reached? I was going to use the word consensus there, but it didn't fit, as ultimately, and rightly so, the decision about the tone of what is and isn't broadly acceptable any more is an admin decision.

Obviously there are plenty of things that are and should be discussed by mods only, I know that from my time having access there, but I think that something like this, that will have an impact largely on one forum, should be discussed a bit more openly. Any interested mods/cmods can post anyhow as they would on the mod forum as this is not something that generally, imo, falls under the privileged information category. If they are not willing to publicly express that which is semi privately expressed, then that is a separate issue perhaps.

Maybe there is another more subtle reason for a private discussion that I am missing, but that's my 2c anyhow.

AlmightyCushion

Dudess wrote: »

Some of them, some too mild to constitute the above though... so delete them instead of locking the entire thread?

That was just a few of the many posts. It's a 2,000 post thread and I don't want to go through the whole thing deleting posts. Even if I did, I'm not 100% sure on some of the greyer areas, all I know is there are a tonne of posts on that thread that are in breach of the rule.

starbelgrade

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

So you don't think posts like the following aren't abusive and degrading?

I'm not questioning why you closed the thread - if there are rules, then you have to enforce them.

I'm not sure I'd consider the posts particularly abusive or degrading though. More harmless as opposed to malicious, but then again, I don't make the rules either - just expressing my opinion for what it's worth.

DeVore

5Star, its because I'm trying to marshal a few different discussions and I have very little time right at the moment. We can leave this up but I cant do this personally so, debate away. I'm out for the moment. I've heard these arguments and they are now going around like a whirlpool and are focused on a specific thread which frankly is no loss to anyone.


Dudess and Guns, give it a rest, let others talk.


DeV.

There isnt a solution which is going to satisfy everyone and I've given everyone a chance to input here.

K-9

Okay, Gunfortoys is missing the general point of this thread, he has an issue about tLL and i think that is fair comment. It's a BIG miss as tGC and Flirtar have the same thread as tLL. tGC for the more discernible male poster. Flirtar for others. Missed the point totally.

I suppose we all have our hobby horses.

I think AC raises a point. I can't see why an old, regular thread should be locked because of the new rules. Remind posters of the new rules in thread and remind them of the civility rule.

There is no need to lock threads as that raises hackles.

OPENROAD

Dudess wrote: »

Some of them, some too mild to constitute the above though... so delete them instead of locking the entire thread?

+1

And to be honest I have seen far more abusive posts in AH, and threads have not been closed or posts deleted, which harks back to what exactly constitutes abuse which the current rules do not really define.

DeVore

Which *was* the point of this thread until everyone got on their own particular hobby horses.


Thats exactly what I'm trying to define here. Or was.


Back on topic. Everyone, thats a warning.


DeV.

Chris P. Bacon

I dont really have much to add here but after reading this the last day or two i think i will say something.

I think when DeVore started this site it was for people to help each other in whatever way they could,he said in this thread he is proud of boards,and so he should be,he created a community for people to help each other,but now it has grown way beyond what he thought it could be,and now its just this big mess of people arguing about who they can and can not abuse.

I'm no angel but come on for the most part we are all adults and we should act like one.

AlmightyCushion

Chris P. Bacon wrote: »

I dont really have much to add here but after reading this the last day or two i think i will say something.

I think when DeVore started this site it was for people to help each other in whatever way they could,he said in this thread he is proud of boards,and so he should be,he created a community for people to help each other,but now it has grown way beyond what he thought it could be,and now its just this big mess of people arguing about who they can and can not abuse.

I'm no angel but come on for the most part we are all adults and we should act like one.

Sorry to go off topic here people, but your username is fúcking brilliant. I got a good laugh out of it. Cheers, I needed it.

Insect Overlord

Chris P. Bacon wrote: »

and now its just this big mess of people arguing about who they can and can not abuse.

It's hard to believe it, but this just might be the most ridiculous comment in the whole thread.

Seriously, there's so much more, so much good about this site. It's not perfect (obviously) but that point there is so far wide of the goals it's gone out for a throw.

Renn

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Seriously, there's so much more, so much good about this site.

And the moderating is not one of those things.

OutlawPete

Renn wrote: »

And the moderating is not one of those things.

You're right, it's not "one" of those good things about this site, it is in fact the best thing about this site. I can't think of any other forum in world (Digital Spy included) that is as well moderated.

Don't get me wrong, I have many criticisms of some of the things that some of the mods have done in the name of 'moderation' over the years and indeed I have started threads on them, but to say that the modding is not one of the "good" things about this site, is just plain incorrect.

Renn

Nah it's my opinion so I'll stick with it. I'm on numerous different forums and the majority of them don't have mods going on a power trip - something which happens far too frequently on this place. Plus the place has got a far too 'serious' feel about it.

5starpool

DeVore wrote: »

5Star, its because I'm trying to marshal a few different discussions and I have very little time right at the moment. We can leave this up but I cant do this personally so, debate away. I'm out for the moment. I've heard these arguments and they are now going around like a whirlpool and are focused on a specific thread which frankly is no loss to anyone.

Which is why feedforward public might be a good idea to have the discussion so that it can be marshalled by the mods there so that it doesn't descend into chaos like all feedback threads inevitably do, and takes a lot of the weight off your shoulders personally in the actual discussion.

I've no big beef with the decision either way anyhow, I just think it is an interesting discussion. I'd rarely post anything that comes close to the quite blurry line anyhow, so have no vested interest other than a general one.

There are more important things in life to worry about anyhow as you said yesterday, so GL with the RL stuff.

Darragh

Renn wrote: »

And the moderating is not one of those things.

Could you do me a favour, Renn? Could you bring this up in a different thread? It's something that I think should be dealt with, because we see it a lot.

Obviously I see the other side of things here - how much work the volunteers put in and how they act on threads and users (of the 558 moderators we have, I'd have to say that there's very few I can think of offhand that we get complaints about) - but when a member is saying that our moderating isn't right, I think it's an issue we should face.

Genuinely asking this debate to be faced, because otherwise it's a disservice to all the moderators who have the best interests of their forum and the people who use it at heart.

Thanks

Darragh

liah

Renn wrote: »

Nah it's my opinion so I'll stick with it. I'm on numerous different forums and the majority of them don't have mods going on a power trip - something which happens far too frequently on this place. Plus the place has got a far too 'serious' feel about it.

I actually haven't seen any mods on a power trip since Terry (and he only messed around for the lulz). Do you have any examples?

Edit: nevermind, I'll watch for the other thread.

Kiera

Darragh wrote: »

Could you do me a favour, Renn? Could you bring this up in a different thread? It's something that I think should be dealt with, because we see it a lot.

Obviously I see the other side of things here - how much work the volunteers put in and how they act on threads and users (of the 558 moderators we have, I'd have to say that there's very few I can think of offhand that we get complaints about) - but when a member is saying that our moderating isn't right, I think it's an issue we should face.

Genuinely asking this debate to be faced, because otherwise it's a disservice to all the moderators who have the best interests of their forum and the people who use it at heart.

Thanks

Darragh

This kind of thread could turn nasty tho. I’m sure a few posters would throw in the odd sly dig at mods they don’t like. I’ve seen it in normal threads which had nothing to do with moderation.

/just my opinion.

Darragh

Kiera wrote: »

This kind of thread could turn nasty tho. I’m sure a few posters would throw in the odd sly dig at mods they don’t like. I’ve seen it in normal threads which had nothing to do with moderation.

/just my opinion.

We'll try keep it impersonal and non-nasty.

It's the balance between people attacking moderators and then not having a clue what a moderator is and does and has to deal with.

If there's a problem with moderation, then it's a Boards.ie problem - not (just/always/specifically/totally) the problem of the person in question.

I'm doing it much more out of respect for the moderators we have than a desire to point fingers and apportion blame. The latter won't help anyone.

TheZohanS

*cough*

Kiera

Darragh wrote: »

We'll try keep it impersonal and non-nasty.

It's the balance between people attacking moderators and then not having a clue what a moderator is and does and has to deal with.

If there's a problem with moderation, then it's a Boards.ie problem - not (just/always/specifically/totally) the problem of the person in question.

I'm doing it much more out of respect for the moderators we have than a desire to point fingers and apportion blame. The latter won't help anyone.

I totally get what you’re saying and yes it would be a helpful thread if it was kept civil. I have witnessed ex mods attack current mods a few times in a very sly way and would hate for a thread like that to descend into sly digs on one particular mod/mods.

ie: mentioning a time of day a certain mod will be on and commenting on their actions (locking threads)....

DeVore

And yet we are still off topic.


I travel home today for a funeral, I'll be on and off during the day and off most of tomorrow, but I'm not sure there is much more of real value to be said about this topic. A lot has already been said. I need to go talk to some "stake holders" and as 5star pointed out, since this is going to go be something we refer to for all forums it should probably be discussed in FF finally.

DeV.