Cell count problems

5live

Hi all. Just looking for some advice on my cell count problem. It's currently at 528:eek:. I had a milk recording last sunday week and 10 millionares showed up. I want to treat the 5 worst, all over 2 million. I used the CMT but only one quarter showed up with a high cell count. So i must be doing something wrong. I tried youtube but there is very little in english on interpreting the results:mad:
On an intresting aside, my protein is 3.47 AND after taking out the 5 highest cows(about 60% of my cell count total) my count only dropped by 20. What is going on here:o

whelan1

i too had a problem , get your milking machine tested ,also i changed mastitis and dry cow tubes... my acr's where playing up... i got the sensitivity test done by my vet . do you pre dip the cows, this too reduced mine , i am now around the 200 level which is a first for me in years. Its very frustrating , maybe milk record twice this month just to get the bad ones out as a month is along time between tests. You can also ask that you need the results urgently rather than having to wait a week. I was also sending samples of individual cows with the milk man to get results quicker.. do you have a cmt?

5live

I used the cmt before for drying off the cows. But no highs showed up. I fill the cup and spill out till the milk hits the line then i squirt out the reagent (how much reagent to use?) and swirl around for 30 seconds. And nothing. At all?????????
I might as well be pouring beer onto the cups as nothing seems to show up. Rightly p****d off today:mad:

whelan1

what dry cow tubes do you use ?

5live

Changed to Boviclox(?) this year but should have done a sensitivity test on the bulk tank. I just did a few of the persistent witches and they were all sensitive to boviclox so i did the lot, bar a few i couldnt get across the yard during the snow, about 15 i think. And those ones have counts below 50:rolleyes:

whelan1

i moved from bovaclox to leo red and from synulox tubes to terrexine ...

barryoc1

Bit of useless info bit interesting none the less, a neighbour of mine had a problem with his cell count so he bottled samples and took one from the tank just for interest. Sent them off and they came back. Result he got from the tank (which was in as a cow obviously) was alot different from that text on to him from his milk supplier for the sample taken from the tank by the milkman on the same day.

fastrac

Dipping the clusters in a solution of Serpent sanitiser or equivelant is good to prevent spread to your good cows while your treating the millionaires. I would go straight to injecting the bad ones rather than using tubes to get the count down fast.

jeff greene

5live wrote: »

Hi all. Just looking for some advice on my cell count problem. It's currently at 528:eek:. I had a milk recording last sunday week and 10 millionares showed up. I want to treat the 5 worst, all over 2 million. I used the CMT but only one quarter showed up with a high cell count. So i must be doing something wrong. I tried youtube but there is very little in english on interpreting the results:mad:
On an intresting aside, my protein is 3.47 AND after taking out the 5 highest cows(about 60% of my cell count total) my count only dropped by 20. What is going on here:o

If taking out the millionaires didn't work, it could possible mean new high cell count cows in the time between milk recording and now. I have two out at the moment and cells is back under 140 from 360. Dip the high scc clusters in pericidic acid will stop it spreading. What teat dip are you using? Wear gloves during milking, I know its ghey but it helps:)

keep going

usally there is only one qauter at fault anyway so that would make sense. tube the daylights out of those and if it dosent clear up,dont be afraid to stop milking it altogether -no dry tubes especially when all the calves are weaned later on.often they come back grand next year.ifind breaking it down to qauters makes more manageble. had fierce problems my self did a blood test and found all cows low in iodine which makes more prone to infection

whelan1

tylan also reduces cell counts..

5live

Thanks all. I'm cluster dipping in romit at the minute and its a pain in the tit! Adds about 15 minutes to milking. I am teat spraying 'normal' cows with an iodine based dip and am pre and post teat dipping with a chlorohexadine dip (cant think of the name off hand).
I'm useing gloves gloves too which i really despise. I dont mind about being ghey as long as it gets the count down but ,ffs, the feel of water inside the gloves,aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggghhhh. Its nearly worse than cotton wool and i cannot have cotton wool in the house:eek::eek::eek::eek:. But if it works....
I know i am marginal for iodine and am going in with an all trace element bolus next week as copper and selenium are low too so hopefully that will take out another problem
What i cant figure out is why the cmt comes back normal for cows with 5 million scc. What the hell am i doing wrong. How much reagent should i use

keep going

i have a yoke called spurt X or something like that and makes doing the test so easy the handle is the juice and you just milk into the dishs, turn it to even the samples and squeeze the handle. some times we use to much milk in the sample very little will do

bbam

whelan1 wrote: »

i too had a problem , get your milking machine tested

It's quite a while since I worked on machines but a few things can help...

Bonding, not particularly a machine issue but the parlor & dairy should be thoroughly bonded to ensure stray electricity/fencer isn't a problem.

Vacuum level, ya wouldn't believe the number of folks who can't resist turning up the vacuum thinking is does nothing but speed things up :eek:
Depending on the setup but any decent mid-line plant will operate well at 47/48 Kpa.

Pulsation ratio, 70:30 is fine in a healthy herd, if it were mine I'd have it set back to 60:40. It may add a few minutes to the milking so again can be un popular..

theroad

You will need to find out what bug you are dealing with - is it Staph aureus, which is spread by contact or something they're picking up in the field/house? Staph is a hard cure, environmental mastitis normally clears up quickly with treatment.

We had bad Staph mastitis two years ago and it's a nightmare. Identify all the dodgy cows. Cull the hopeless cases. Treat the ones you think are worth it. Any decent tube will do so long as you know it will kill the particular bug. Tylan is good, but expensive. Tylo or Tylosin are meant to be the same active ingredient at less than half the price but they didn't work as well for me as Tylan did.

Using the paddle should be fairly straightforward. I use a squirt of washing-up liquid with the milk and it's quickly clear which is the problem quarter.

milkprofit

get machien tested by qualified technician
cull persisent milionaries

5live

scc 241 in the text this morning. First time this year below 400:o. Looks like i took out the worst anyway.

The machine isnt the problem (i hope) and its due a service at the end of april. I look after her well, better than myself sometimes. Liners due to change next week so another potential problem gone then. After all, over 100k worth of milk going through her every year so i think its very important to keep her humming and good vaccum reserve too as she is set up for 20 units and only 14 in at the minute. I must have a look at the pulsation. Thanks for that bbam.

Any high girls will get done for sensitivity and hopefully most can be cured. And dry off any quarters that dont respond if i can actually identify them

I am still having problems with the cmt. I have the squirt x too and i just cant see a difference between the cups. I am going to try again this evening and will take samples from the worst 5 to test again to see if it was just a once off spike.

whelan1

i think they go in a cycle where its fine for a week and then comes back , i used to get fooled by the odd low test , it is so annoying :mad:

jeff greene

whelan1 wrote: »

i think they go in a cycle where its fine for a week and then comes back , i used to get fooled by the odd low test , it is so annoying :mad:

I think you are right, have been fooled several times too!

5live

whelan1 wrote: »

i think they go in a cycle where its fine for a week and then comes back , i used to get fooled by the odd low test , it is so annoying :mad:

Yeah its a constant battle. Just talking to a few lads at the creamery and it seems to be a problem this year in our area. I'm really annoyed as its the first time i've been fined in spring (always get a fine at drying off:o) and money really tight this year.

Thanks for the suggestions guys and gals. Really appreciated:)

whelan1

did you ask them about the cmt test , afair you can mix it up with washing up liquid, i dont know the ratio... i used to dread getting texts in the evening time as i t would be an alert that the scc was high , would ruin my evening

5live

From my lack of replies, you can probably tell my problems have mostly gone away. Scc up to 300 as i sold calves and decided to send the milk.

I sorted out the cmt problem too:D(i hope). Trial and error! I treated the 3 worst with cobactan after getting good results with the cmt. 4 quarters in the 3 cows had medium levels of mastitis and one quarter was very very bad but no sign of clots or hard quarters. The clots only came after treating:mad:

I think the secret of cmt is practice. Trying it on both low and high scc cows helps show up the difference. And youtube too. There is a spanish video that is very good on showing the non clinical cases cases but my spanish is about as good as my swahili(even though i can curse like a trooper in swahili:))

Now i just wait for the inhibitors to wear off and test again before i treat again i hope

whelan1

was thinking about you today:o when my worker left my scc improved , now it wasnt just the fact he was gone i also got the milking machine servised etc , but it was a coincidence

stanflt

5live wrote: »

scc 241 in the text this morning. First time this year below 400:o. Looks like i took out the worst anyway.

After all, over 100k worth of milk going through her every year so i think its very important to keep her humming and good vaccum reserve too as she is set up for 20 units and only 14 in at the minute.

I am still having problems with the cmt. I have the squirt x too and i just cant see a difference between the cups. I am going to try again this evening and will take samples from the worst 5 to test again to see if it was just a once off spike.

you must be milking jerseys-seems very little money for high amount of clusters.

John_F

had a problem with scc last year went into 400's. not milk recording but was sennding samples to co op lab for scc only (50cent per sample i think) started cluster dipping with clus-ster x (cheaper than romit as you use less) and was already post spraying with a diluted mix. was told after to only use dips that you dont dilute. Only way to lower the scc significantly imo is dry cow therapy. At drying off we cmt tested every cow before milking out and any cow with one high quater got 2 mastitis tubes and dry cow tube, any cow with 2 or more quarters high on cmt got 25 cc tylosin (same only cheaper than tylan) on each side and dry cow tubes and sealer. Any cow that escape the radar and was less than one month from calving we used a short acting tube and 25cc tylosin on each side. All cows got sealer and cubicles limed once a day and scraper on every2-3 hours

any cow that gets mastitis should get more than tubes really, hit them with tylosin / tylan to get a good cure (more than not seeing clots)

SCC now at under 100 for last 3 months and hoping to keep it that way (touch wood), lowest of 53, cluster dipping all clusters with past 9 months (pain but it seems to be doing some good) used a thick teat dip over winter (deosan mastocide €88 for 20l), was pre foaming for about a week but v time consuming in the 6 unit parlour with number of cows going through :rolleyes: gona use that as a spray soon enough. as for the plastic gloves i got sleeves in the co op made by chemical services limited (make koss socks) in cork with latex cuffs that stop water getting in, way better than those ones with elastic cuffs.

just my experience

vid on cmt from dairy co in uk :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O41cqEvmrRw

Pacoa

Got a free 5 litre of deosan masticide a few weeks back and i recon its good stuff. You can see it on the cow when she comes in for the next milking. Been using uddergold for the last couple of winters, very good stuff but very expensive, might switch to the masticide for next winter.

5live

stanflt wrote: »

you must be milking jerseys-seems very little money for high amount of clusters.

Hi stanflt. The key word there would be over.

Still building numbers and bloody sheds. Virtually nothing on the ground 15 years ago only stock outwintered and crap machinery and a youngish lad willing to do a bit of graft. Rome wasnt built in a day but it was burned in a night so slow and easy for the time being

5live

Thanks for that John F. The big problem, for me anyway, is in interpreting the non clinical mastitis. The quarter in the video shows a bad case but mine seem to be not that bad as only 2 quarters showed up that level of reaction.

Most seem to have very little change in the reaction, just a slight thickening of the mix. And 30 seconds extra just for swirling is about 1 minute per cow extra milking(60 cows=1 hour extra per milking) so it is very time consuming.

Looks like longer lasting dry cow tubes at the very least next winter but still wondering about sealers. I think i will wait till a bit closer to dryoff to make up my mind.

jeff greene

5live wrote: »

Looks like longer lasting dry cow tubes at the very least next winter but still wondering about sealers. I think i will wait till a bit closer to dryoff to make up my mind.

Glad to see you're on top of the SCC now. In my opinion there is nothing to think about regarding teat sealers, I find them a super job, defiantly worth it!!

5live

I wouldnt say i am on top of it yet. Still got a lot of cows to treat and have to find out if the treated ones back to somewhere near normal yet.

The cost of the sealers on top of the dry cow tubes is my problem with them. I am on a low margin till the end of next year but then again the cost of treating versus the cost of prevention:o

jeff greene

5live wrote: »

I wouldnt say i am on top of it yet. Still got a lot of cows to treat and have to find out if the treated ones back to somewhere near normal yet.

The cost of the sealers on top of the dry cow tubes is my problem with them. I am on a low margin till the end of next year but then again the cost of treating versus the cost of prevention:o

I know they are expensive but if you have recent SCC figurs at drying off, you could use the sealers only on low cows, saving money there.

Also what dip/teat spray are people using? Anyone use ABS valiant? €90/20 liters but bulk deals can be done apparently.

whelan1

i got a scc of 150 this evening the lowest in a few years , happy days ... 5live hows it going now ?

5live

197:D

248 307 369 and 248 were the previous 4. It went up when calves were weaned and down again as the cows were treated.

Down to last 4 millionaires now. They were treated twice but still too high. I am waiting for results of sensitivities so i can target the quarters with the problems with tubes and injections. Failing that i can dry off the quarters or start using quarter milkers.

The milking time has dropped again but it is still slower than it used to be because of pre-dipping and cluser dipping.

I saw am ad from buyrite last week with ready mixed iodine pre and post dip spray and i am getting attracted to the idea as i use iodine dips normally and it would make life a bit easier. But i thought pre dipping with iodine was linked to black spot. Has anybody heard that or used iodine as a pre dip

John_F

good to hear. i thought blackspot was linnked to using iodine actives with hydrated lime and/or the air hols in the claw piece being blocked. We got black spot this year on a cow :mad: but we didnt use iodine here with years, current active is chlorhexidine (moved to deosan teatcare plus last week).

is there an advantage in cluster dipping and pre spraying? thought it would be one or the other as both doing more or less the same thing, and pre spaying should take longer if you are to wipe every teat?

5live

I was wondering about the belt and braces too, with both pre and cluster dipping but it seems to be working. The pre dipping sees to be softening the teats so maybe i need to add more glycerine to the post dip?
The cluster dipping seems to stop or reduce transfer to the next cow so what is the pre dip for as well?
Is pre dipping just for where there is no cluster dipping?

On the pre dipping with iodine, if i understand you right John F, is it where you are useing iodine pre dip with cubicle lime that can lead to black spot? Why doesnt it lead to black spot with post dipping?

And i only pre dip the high cell count ones or else i would be milking all day but it still takes a lot of extra time

John_F

pre spraying kills bugs on the teat before they can enter the canal so i suppose that doing the too on high cell count cows may help but how do you know a low cell count cow hasn't got 10 times the bugs on the outside of her teat than that old high scc girl, just thinking there it may be more worth while to do the cows that milk faster as the teat canal is wider?? glycerine or an emollient??

i never heard it was only linked to pre spraying and always thought it was post spraying, we didnt use iodine for years, what is the make of the product you are using?

anyway seems to be working well what you are doing

babybrian

Oh god Im now in the same boat, for years we have been consistently under 300 scc and now this year I havent been under it yet :mad:

I know the cows and I know the quarters(CMT test), but my question is is it possible to get them back down??? have tries tubes and after talking to the vet tried 2 bottles of Intertrim/cow for 6 days and it seemed to work but after a week since last injection it shot back up again.....I was nearly ready to cry in the milking parlour this evening because I thaught I was getting on top of it...:(

Has anything worked consistently for anyone here?? I am considering drying off quarters as a last resort..

thats interesting

I had terrible cell count, really depressing stuff, seeing great cows have to be culled for years. I saw a neighbour pre spraying (plus wiping off), post dipping and dipping the clusters in between every cow one year ago. I copied the neighbour!

12 months on I haven't culled a cow for high cell count, very little milk is thrown away and trying to sort cows, injected from not injected, is a rare occurence.

It takes time, but time is peace of mind. I hope that helps someone.

5live

Hi babybrian. Sorry to hear but welcome to the club. First thing DONT PANIC:). You are most of the way there. If you know the quarters you have options.

1. For a quick no milk withdrawl hit use a quarter milker on the high quarters. Then take samples on these and send them off to find out what is causing it and what antibiotics to use. It takes longer but has a higher success rate. I am waiting for the results on 4 at the minute

2. Use a different tube to what you use normally and possibly an injection too. I used cobactan on the 5 highest and cured(?) 2. Check that the injection wont interfere with the tubes

3. Dry off the quarter. If antibiotics arent working then there is no point in wasting money trying to cure the incurable.

4. Sell the cow. Its just passing on the problem but the next guy might have more success treating it or might not care

Use gloves milking. I hate them but it may help in stopping transmission to the other cows.
Pre dip the high quarters as it helps keeping the other cows low.
Cluster dip after the high cows as it helps too. It takes time but getting it under control is the priority for now.
Post dip to help stop infection starting.
Change the liners if its due to be done.
Check all the rubberware for air holes ie short pulse tubes and cracks at the cluster in the long pulse tubes and blocks in the air holes in the cluster too. Basically everything:o
Thats what i found helped get my girls down but it is a constant battle. Let us know how you get on

cowbox

I reckon cell count is all a load of bull.. they just try and give you as little as possible for the milk..sure I went and got all my cows tested and then I was drying off cows anyways that weren't even the main culprids and all of a sudden my cell count dropped for 800,000 to 250,000. Sure the creamery probally thought I dried off the high cell cows just because my milk supply went way down.. I dont know its a mind game.

keep going

babybrian wrote: »

Oh god Im now in the same boat, for years we have been consistently under 300 scc and now this year I havent been under it yet :mad:

I know the cows and I know the quarters(CMT test), but my question is is it possible to get them back down??? have tries tubes and after talking to the vet tried 2 bottles of Intertrim/cow for 6 days and it seemed to work but after a week since last injection it shot back up again.....I was nearly ready to cry in the milking parlour this evening because I thaught I was getting on top of it...:(

Has anything worked consistently for anyone here?? I am considering drying off quarters as a last resort..

its totally disheartening but its important to remember that its not the cow its usally just one quarter so isolate it, treat it and if it dosent work stop milking it .i do that at about june/july when there is no calves to drink milk and often they come back fine next year. apparently the udder can deal with the infection when it closes down

5live

cowbox wrote: »

I reckon cell count is all a load of bull.. they just try and give you as little as possible for the milk..sure I went and got all my cows tested and then I was drying off cows anyways that weren't even the main culprids and all of a sudden my cell count dropped for 800,000 to 250,000. Sure the creamery probally thought I dried off the high cell cows just because my milk supply went way down.. I dont know its a mind game.

All i can say to that cowbox is......nothing constructive really. You are entitled to your opinion. Just take 1 cow. Scc 5 million. Add her to your 30, 50, 90 cows. Do the math. Put her into the tank. Then the scc up over 500,00 even in a relatively big herd. And that is just one cow that might have got a puck or just a small infection.

Scc can and will fluctuate from day to day and cow to cow

Tipp Man

Lads quick question, are ye using automatic cluster removers or not?

We found that when we installed them (onto a 1 year old parlour so everything was new) the scc dropped a lot and has consistently stayed down for the last 4 years (thank god, touch wood)

So i'm just curious if the very high cell counts could be attributed to over milking or anything like that?

whelan1

Tipp Man wrote: »

Lads quick question, are ye using automatic cluster removers or not?

We found that when we installed them (onto a 1 year old parlour so everything was new) the scc dropped a lot and has consistently stayed down for the last 4 years (thank god, touch wood)

So i'm just curious if the very high cell counts could be attributed to over milking or anything like that?

i have cluster removers in about 7 years... scc was fine but as they one by one stopped working the scc went up , got them all serviced earlier on in the year and its back down low again ...

Tipp Man

whelan1 wrote: »

i have cluster removers in about 7 years... scc was fine but as they one by one stopped working the scc went up , got them all serviced earlier on in the year and its back down low again ...

Yeah vitally important they are working 100% correct

We had 1 that was playing up a little and after 2 days 3 cows who always use that same cluster had mastitis. Cue immediate fixing of ACR and no problems since

snowman707

our tank scc range from 25 to 80

we use deosan foam pre and post milking,

we do not use dry cow tubes only a sealer

we have never culled a cow for high scc

IMO

long dry period is essential ( at least 8 - 9 weeks)
no stray electricity,
milking machine PMO and PWO
cows in good state of health and nutrition
good milking technique and cow comfort

will go along way with reducing scc

just sharing my thoughts, may not be everyone's solution but working for us

linebacker52

Tipp Man wrote: »

Lads quick question, are ye using automatic cluster removers or not?

We found that when we installed them (onto a 1 year old parlour so everything was new) the scc dropped a lot and has consistently stayed down for the last 4 years (thank god, touch wood)

So i'm just curious if the very high cell counts could be attributed to over milking or anything like that?

we moved into a new parlour with removers 3 years ago before moving scc was over 400 000.it dropped to under 200 000 almost straight away in the new parlour and has stayed there ever since. i dont spray or dip and only had one case of mastits so far this year.

jeff greene

snowman707 wrote: »

our tank scc range from 25 to 80

we use deosan foam pre and post milking,

we do not use dry cow tubes only a sealer

we have never culled a cow for high scc

IMO

long dry period is essential ( at least 8 - 9 weeks)
no stray electricity,
milking machine PMO and PWO
cows in good state of health and nutrition
good milking technique and cow comfort

will go along way with reducing scc

just sharing my thoughts, may not be everyone's solution but working for us

Very good point about health and nutrition, high scc can be a depressed immune system. Of course breeding will influence scc too, cows with poor udders etc.

5live

No ACRs. Yet anyway. On the TO DO list a bit after auto feeders:o. Over milking isnt a problem at this time of year but when cows go under 3 gallons it can be a bit of a problem but my scc for autumn is (was) always under 220,000 until dry off. ACRs and feeders come in about 20k so it will have to wait

whelan1

i see glanbia are lowering the scc limit to 300,000 over the next few years, lowering it by 25,000 a year

Min

whelan1 wrote: »

i see glanbia are lowering the scc limit to 300,000 over the next few years, lowering it by 25,000 a year

Paddy O'Keeffe on the Farmers Journal was saying a few weeks ago that the 400,000 limit was too high.