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Cancelled My Tracker Did I REALLY Screw up?

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    #92
    ronan45
    Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭ronan45


    phormium wrote: »
    That exactly says it there in my opinion, the loan should revert to whatever is on the original loan offer, the thing is not to accept anything that comes out on the letter. Once you accept one of those then all bets are off. If you did nothing the loan should go back to tracker if that is what you originally had specified on your loan offer. But it seems they are being amended and not going to original tracker on maturity.

    Anyone find a copy of their loan offer?


    Looks like that Phormium allright. And I wonder why the staff get so hostile/rude when they hear the words "Back to tracker" :P:rolleyes: Just asking for whats meant to be mine :D
    Cant find my original loan offer. :( IM curious about this condition 2 the fixed rate refers too . thats the only fly in the ointment :eek:


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    #93
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    phormium wrote: »
    That exactly says it there in my opinion, the loan should revert to whatever is on the original loan offer, the thing is not to accept anything that comes out on the letter. Once you accept one of those then all bets are off. If you did nothing the loan should go back to tracker if that is what you originally had specified on your loan offer. But it seems they are being amended and not going to original tracker on maturity.

    Anyone find a copy of their loan offer?

    I have a copy here of a loan offer from June 2005, it is for a Current Account Mortgage which also carried a tracker rate, this mortgage was never fixed or anything but just for example, on the second page under Specific Loan Offer Condition it states ' The interest rate for this loan will not exceed the european central bank rate plus 1.29% subject to the rate adjustment period allowable as set out in the general terms and conditions'

    It is a line something similar to that you need to find on your original loan offers, if UB are slow about finding you a copy try your solicitor who might still have a copy on file, assuming you didn't keep your own copy, always keep your own copy!!!

    Lads are you guys on here rambling having not looked at your documentation or written to the bank?

    If so, then stop wasting your time cutting and pasting the documentation that you got when your fixed rate finished up!! Because its just making the thread longer than it needs to be! The fixed rate letter is always goinng to say that you will revert to an SVR unless you select something else.

    General condition 2 - unless you see something else is going to state that you revert to their Home Loan rate. As mentioned depending on how this is phrased in the letter they will state that is a standard variable rate - regardless of what the rate was that you proceeded with under your offer of advance. Take that as fact from some one who is doing this right now.

    And one of the earlier posters is right, there is a lot of people that seem to think "yeah f*ck it I should have been on a tracker" when they clearly selected an SVR at some point in their life. I've seen it on other threads and on other websites. And the fact that these people are probably writing means that everyone is swamped with spurios complaints.

    you can take it UB will NOT give you back your tracker so demand your final response letter from them and go the FSO and just be done with it.


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    #94
    ronan45
    Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭ronan45


    martingriff wrote: »
    If only we we can see into the future however if all the extra you had paid in the last 5 years you could have put in a saving account and now used it on your mortgage you would have saved a lot in interest



    I hate to think lol say 300 per month possible 400....12 months ...5 years............lol Thing is i fixed summer 2007 i thinks thats when the arse fell out of the market and the interest rates tumbled :pac:


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    #95
    Ladylouth
    Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭Ladylouth


    We have copies of all our documents. General condition 2 that is referred to in the Fixed Rate Authority form doesn't mention the actual rates at all - tracker or SVR. It's all about how exactly interest on this loan is calculated, not what the rate is. Ronan, contact your solicitors - they should have a copy. So do UB, but they clearly don't want you to have it, and there's a good reason for that. From my experience of this crowd, hoping they will see sense is a waste of time and energy. Get to the FSO stage as soon as you can. Go back to page 2 of this thread, to lucy's post on 21st July 11. She gives the full text of General condition 2, it's exactly same as ours.


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    #96
    phormium
    Registered Users Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭phormium


    There are usually Specific conditions and General conditions with the loan offer. The Specific conditions are usually behind the page that says loan offer details or similar, that page has the amount of loan, term, rate, apr, stuff like that. Next page has specific conditions relating to that loan such as the tracker condition if it is a tracker, it will say ecb + ??? whatever margin it was at the time.

    The General conditions are usually booklet style of loads of random conditions which cover every mortgage possibility but it's the specific ones that are important in these cases.

    If memory serves me correctly I don't even think customer is sent a copy of the general ones, think they go straight to solicitor with their pack. Customer usually gets standard letter telling you loan has been approved, then loan offer details and specific conditions plus maybe copy valuation.


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    #97
    Hairymilo
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭Hairymilo


    ronan45 wrote: »
    Looks like that Phormium allright. And I wonder why the staff get so hostile/rude when they hear the words "Back to tracker" :P:rolleyes: Just asking for whats meant to be mine :D
    Cant find my original loan offer. :( IM curious about this condition 2 the fixed rate refers too . thats the only fly in the ointment :eek:

    Ronan are u serious after all this time u still dont have your documents????!


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    #98
    Doom
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭Doom


    ronan45 wrote: »
    About 4 years ago I cancelled my tracker and switched to a 5 year fixed, which is nearly over. I heard on the radio that trackers will be loss making for their full duration. Did i Just throw away about 85,000 Euro?
    If the ECB go up to say 5% the tracker must go up to reflect that also. But in that case the other banks with the variables may be giving out 8% etc. Was that a HUGE screw up on my part?
    Im gonna Puke lol :eek:

    Did you check your T&Cs, you maybe able to revert after the 5 ye period is up


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    #99
    Hairymilo
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭Hairymilo


    phormium wrote: »
    There are usually Specific conditions and General conditions with the loan offer. The Specific conditions are usually behind the page that says loan offer details or similar, that page has the amount of loan, term, rate, apr, stuff like that. Next page has specific conditions relating to that loan such as the tracker condition if it is a tracker, it will say ecb + ??? whatever margin it was at the time.

    The General conditions are usually booklet style of loads of random conditions which cover every mortgage possibility but it's the specific ones that are important in these cases.

    If memory serves me correctly I don't even think customer is sent a copy of the general ones, think they go straight to solicitor with their pack. Customer usually gets standard letter telling you loan has been approved, then loan offer details and specific conditions plus maybe copy valuation.

    Customer gets everything same as their solicitor!! End of story!!!

    The general conditions do not come in booklet form, they are part of your Original Offer Of Advance!! All in, this MOST PRECIOUS document comes to a mere 6 pages!!

    I thought we were past all this!!


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    #100
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,904 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    ronan45 wrote: »
    I hate to think lol say 300 per month possible 400....12 months ...5 years............lol Thing is i fixed summer 2007 i thinks thats when the arse fell out of the market and the interest rates tumbled :pac:

    Ya I would not think about it to be honest. Unfortunately if they never said you would get it back in 2007 then I doubt you will even if it is not in the contract but I will cross my fingers


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    #101
    phormium
    Registered Users Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭phormium


    Hairymilo, don't know about present procedure but in the past Solicitor certainly did get extra paperwork than customer (was called the Solicitor's pack), basic loan offer the same but extra documentation in it, maybe the general conditions are not now in booklet form, they certainly were when I was working in bank, sent out hundreds over the years to customers and solicitors.


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    #102
    lucybousy
    Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭lucybousy


    Lucy is back.... ok there no point making phonecalls to UB you will get no where. you write toUlster bank, Complaints and procedures , 4th Floor, Central Park, Leopardstown, Dublin 18 logging a complaint that you were not put on tracker mortgage after your fixed rate expired. i have letter if anyone wants it pm me. they will then write back saying no your not getting it then look for final response letter for ombundsman. i didnt need to go ombundsman as a matter of goodwill.... they gave me mine back. Ronan contact your solicitor in the morning they will have copy i called in to mine and got it there and then. and general rule 2 too is load rubbish doesnt refer to rates at all. the four words that got me my tracker back in my opinion is ULSTER BANK LOAN RATE because it didnt say variable or standard thats where i had them by the b*lls.... since ive been on this forum i know at least 15 people who ive been in contact with to get there tracker back and got it. maybe its my wonderful letter i wrote..... that done it. but agree with peteb2 cut the crap and straight to the point. complaint letter then 15 day letter for ombundsman..


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    #103
    Hairymilo
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭Hairymilo


    phormium wrote: »
    Hairymilo, don't know about present procedure but in the past Solicitor certainly did get extra paperwork than customer (was called the Solicitor's pack), basic loan offer the same but extra documentation in it, maybe the general conditions are not now in booklet form, they certainly were when I was working in bank, sent out hundreds over the years to customers and solicitors.

    Thats cool Phormium. My only gripe with your post was to point out that we should only post pure facts relating to UB mortgage contracts and nothing else ie not to unintentionally mislead and make the thread longer than it should be. (I know you were only trying to be helpful ;-))

    People are coming to this thread out of pure torment and frustration. They want cold hard facts to help guide them on this complex topic.

    Fact is this thread relates SPECIFICALLY to UB Mortgages that originated as trackers taken out between 05-07 or thereabouts and we all have been issued the EXACT same documentation! Nothing more or less. Did u work for UB?

    In short, the thread no longer needs posts about the terms and conditions of our homeloans. They are already here and are all exactly the same!

    For a re-cap people can read pages 2-3 of this thread for that information. No need for us to repeat it.


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    #104
    Ladylouth
    Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭Ladylouth


    Our 3-5 working days are over and no response from UB, so we have sent in our letter demanding our tracker back or final letter of response for Ombudsman. If previous experience is anything to go by, we just wait for no response to letter...... Glad to get to stage where everything is documented though. Phone calls a waste of time.


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    #105
    ronan45
    Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭ronan45


    Ladylouth wrote: »
    Our 3-5 working days are over and no response from UB, so we have sent in our letter demanding our tracker back or final letter of response for Ombudsman. If previous experience is anything to go by, we just wait for no response to letter...... Glad to get to stage where everything is documented though. Phone calls a waste of time.



    Hi lady

    so you got your letter saying your fixed rate is coming to an end.
    You then sent a letter and told them they have 3-5 days to respond?
    Are you talkin with UB or the Ombudsman or both?
    Just trying to gauge where your at with them,

    Myself, i just got the end of fixed rate letter and sent them my letter saying "gimme me tracker":D

    Within 1 day I had a letter back saying thanks for my enquiry and they will get back to me within 10 days with a FINAL RESPONSE LETTER


    lets see how we go ;)


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    #106
    Ladylouth
    Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭Ladylouth


    Ronan, got letter outlining options, but no tracker offered. Same day as you got yours. Rang that day to ask why this option left out and rep said he would refer our complaint to complaints dept and we would hear om them in 3 to 5 working days. Nothing more, so we sent on letter saying: you tried to mislead by leaving out option for tracker, give it back or if not, give us final letter of response cos we are off to ombudsman. No dealings with ombudsman yet. Posted letter on Tuesday, so we hope we hear as soon as you did! Good luck with yours. Keep us posted. Did IOU find your original offer of advance. You were defo om a tracker, we got those letters too when ecb rate changed.


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    #107
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    You won't. They would appear to be fighting most cases now.


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    #108
    ronan45
    Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭ronan45


    peteb2 wrote: »
    You won't. They would appear to be fighting most cases now.



    Why do you say that?
    I dont think they have a case...

    If no offer made you will revert to what ever is in the original offer of advance....
    In the fixed rate agreement it doesnt say anything about going to SVR upon ending of fixed term
    In the fixed rate agreement it doesnt mention anything about a cancellation of a tracker
    I dont see what basis they have for fighting it...
    Let alone sure havent they allready given them back to about 5 people on this thread... thats setting a precedent i would have thought.


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    #109
    Ladylouth
    Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭Ladylouth


    I think we have a very strong case, but I expect they will fight it none the less. However, from previous experience I would have thought it could take months to get a final letter of response, and you need that for the ombudsman. So for a start I'd be happy if we could just get to that stage and let him take up the fight. He holds more sway than we do that's for sure.


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    #110
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    ronan45 wrote: »
    Why do you say that?
    I dont think they have a case...

    If no offer made you will revert to what ever is in the original offer of advance....
    In the fixed rate agreement it doesnt say anything about going to SVR upon ending of fixed term
    In the fixed rate agreement it doesnt mention anything about a cancellation of a tracker
    I dont see what basis they have for fighting it...
    Let alone sure havent they allready given them back to about 5 people on this thread... thats setting a precedent i would have thought.

    See my earlier posts. Also anyone that has got it back has got it back on the basis of "the long term nature of the relationship with the bank". So its on a case-by-case basis with no admission that they were wrong. and therefore no precedent set.

    they know it says nothing about the cancellation of a tracker in the fixed rate agreement. Its in the general conditions. Again see my earlier posts.


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    #111
    ronan45
    Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭ronan45


    peteb2 wrote: »
    See my earlier posts. Also anyone that has got it back has got it back on the basis of "the long term nature of the relationship with the bank". So its on a case-by-case basis with no admission that they were wrong. and therefore no precedent set.

    they know it says nothing about the cancellation of a tracker in the fixed rate agreement. Its in the general conditions. Again see my earlier posts.



    my mortgage was a 30 year maybe a 35 year so i should be ok:cool:


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    #112
    ronan45
    Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭ronan45


    Well..........I can report.........


    Im back on the tracker :D

    Looks like a good days work by all:D

    Thanks to all who contributed to the thread :) Special thanks to Carlywogs and lucybucy!


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    #113
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    Congrats. Was it courtesy of the ombudsman adjudicating on it or the bank? If it was the bank what did they say in the their letter?

    I swear to Jeebus i must be some test case for them to take all the way!


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    #114
    Ladylouth
    Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭Ladylouth


    News flash. letter in today giving us tracker back. Cannot believe how quickly this was dealt with. I expected months of fighting, ringing, writing and no responses from UB. Thank you to all who posted here, ye were all great.


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    #115
    phormium
    Registered Users Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭phormium


    Brilliant news, UB are taking a chance with these maturing fixed rates, I wonder how many people do not notice they have gone to standard variable or if they do just accept the bank's initial assurance that it is correct and don't pursue it. Even if they only get away with half them and I suspect it is a lot more, they are saving at the expense of the customer.


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    #116
    ronan45
    Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭ronan45


    phormium wrote: »
    Brilliant news, UB are taking a chance with these maturing fixed rates, I wonder how many people do not notice they have gone to standard variable or if they do just accept the bank's initial assurance that it is correct and don't pursue it. Even if they only get away with half them and I suspect it is a lot more, they are saving at the expense of the customer.


    Phormium, If i hadnt known about boards and gotten the help here, I would of signed the first form i got saying go to SVR no question, and thus had more years of hardship ahead. I rang them 5 times and each time a resounding "ehhh no chance Sir!"

    In any event I was happy with their response. I have learned some valuable lessons.

    1: Never ever amend your mortgage without seeking independent financial advice.
    2: Never assume what a bank clerk, bank official tells you is correct.
    3: Keep copies of EVERY bloody letter you get from the bank in relation to loans and mortgages in a proper file.:cool:

    Pete no I didnt go to ombuds I just dealth with UB, In your case you allready went to SVR when your fixed rate matured 2 years ago is that right? Best of luck with it, fingers crossed


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    #117
    Doodah7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭Doodah7


    ronan45 wrote: »
    3: Keep copies of EVERY bloody letter you get from the bank in relation to loans and mortgages in a proper file.:cool:

    Extremely sound advice. Even better would be to scan your important documents into pdf and upload to a cloud service. Always available and, if you go with reputable cloud provider, secure forever...


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    #118
    lucybousy
    Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭lucybousy


    Well done Ladylouth and Ronan45 great news. In my opinion the bank staff are the exact same as someone coming and robbing your house id never ever take bank members word or a solictor for that. well done and hope ye celebrated:D


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    #119
    ronan45
    Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭ronan45


    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1117/1224307705344.html

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfqlcwkfaumh/rss2/

    http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=155123

    http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=153377

    Some interesting threads regarding this topic


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    #120
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    56% 44% decrease on my mortgage yesterday as I move from fixed to tracker! Fucking brilliant.


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    #121
    ronan45
    Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭ronan45


    Zulu wrote: »
    56% decrease on my mortgage yesterday as I move from fixed to tracker! Fucking brilliant.

    no way!
    I am waiting to see my discount what is ur tracker ecb plus what percent.
    Cant wait were you fixed also?:D


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