Female Circumcision

rambutman

Whats are your views on this. Had many a heated debate with my wife about this. She finds it acceptable and desirable and has had the less extreme version herself. My view is that it is a cultural thing and not a religous thing and is totally unacceptable. I'd be interested in hearing the views of other muslims

wes

I would consider it completely unacceptable, as it causes a great deal of harm to a Woman. Secondly, it is certainly not a Religous thing either, and more Imam's should come out and let people know that the practice is Haram, as it is simply mutilation. There have been some who have done so in North Africa, where the practice is most pervalent, and hopefully over time more will speak out against it.

rambutman

practice in S.E. Asia too...................what i found disturbing was that religious leaders telling the people that it was required for religion.

seamusfamous

its just wrong :mad:

irishconvert

It is unacceptable and not required to be a Muslim.

There

Its wrong and completely unacceptable.

Chuck Stone

Taking a blade and assaulting a defenseless innocent child by removing body parts is a despicable act of violence and should not be tolerated under any circumstances.

This includes male circumcision btw - let's not be hypocritical.

Rodin

its a disgrace
and utterly pointless

stoneill

Why would anyone think that this is a good idea in any circumstance?
What possible religious or cultural meaning can justify mutilating a person?
Just because it was done does not mean it should continue to be done.

Einhard

There seems to be a sense amongst some Muslims who oppose it that, because it's not required in the Qu'aran, then it's not necessary, and can be labelled barabaric. I'd like to think that, whether condoned by Allah or not, it's barbaric. having something prescribed by your God shouldn't be the deciding factor in whether something is acceptable, even necessary, or deplorable.

Morbert

rambutman wrote: »

Whats are your views on this. Had many a heated debate with my wife about this. She finds it acceptable and desirable and has had the less extreme version herself. My view is that it is a cultural thing and not a religous thing and is totally unacceptable. I'd be interested in hearing the views of other muslims

It should also be noted that, even if it was a religious thing, it would be unacceptable.

Annasopra

Its called FGM for a reason

yammycat

stoneill wrote: »

Why would anyone think that this is a good idea in any circumstance?
What possible religious or cultural meaning can justify mutilating a person?
Just because it was done does not mean it should continue to be done.

The clitoris is removed from girls so they can't orgasm, a woman is far less likely to cheat on her husband if she gets no pleasure from it, it's the same mentality that forces woman to wear burqas so they don't attract the attention of men other than her husband.

Control of woman is the bottom line.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Einhard wrote: »

There seems to be a sense amongst some Muslims who oppose it that, because it's not required in the Qu'aran, then it's not necessary, and can be labelled barabaric. I'd like to think that, whether condoned by Allah or not, it's barbaric. having something prescribed by your God shouldn't be the deciding factor in whether something is acceptable, even necessary, or deplorable.

I think you're getting that impression because on this topic Muslims often start off by saying it is not required by the Quran - I think they do this to make it absolutely clear it is not an Islamic thing rather than that being the only reason not to do it.

Its understandable because they're used to be being asked about it in an accusatory manner

oceanclub

Just to note a bill has been passed in the Seanad today explicitly making FGM a criminal offence.

RT @ivanabacik: Delighted we have just passed FGM bill through the Seanad- to make FGM a specific criminal offence. Thanks to all for support.

P.

x0l0x

Hello Everyone,

I am a Muslim who livid in an Arabic country for a long time and I understand their culture. Let me be clear that the female circumcision is a wrong cultural thing that is starting to be stopped now a day and it is not part of the religion. Arab world now a day are trying to stop people of take this action by telling them that it is harmful and that it is wrong for women health and their sexual life with their husbands.

It is not written in Quran and the prophet (peace be upon him) didn't ask people to do so. However, the only hadith (hadith = saying of the prophet) that mentioned this topic was a weak hadith. From the hadith we can see that the prophet (PBUH) didn't prevent it, but he gave the correct method to not harm women and to not affect them.

There is a Hadith reported by Umm 'Atiyyah: "A woman used to perform circumcision in Madinah. The Prophet (s.A.w.) said to her: 'When you circumcise, do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband.'" (Related by Abu Dawud & al-Bayhaq)

When explaining this Hadith, the Ulama' say this Hadith points out that if a woman is circumcised, it would make her more sensitive during sexual intercourse and that they are told not to cut off all the clitoris for this would result in sexual problems. It is only removing the prepuce (bazr) of the clitoris, not the clitoris itself, as some mistakenly assert. Most Ulama' say that this Hadith does not convey that it is an obligation for it only carries a request. The Hadith quoted above may be speaking about a social custom where women used to be circumcised. Furthermore this Hadith is considered Da'if (a weak Hadith). Abu Dawud himself commented: "It is not a strong tradition. It has been transmitted in Mursal form (missing link of the Sahabah). A narrator, Muhammad bin Hassan is obscure, and this Hadith is Da'if."

I hope that I gave you a corret answer for the sake of Allah.

Have a great day

Kotek Besar

yammycat wrote: »

The clitoris is removed from girls so they can't orgasm, a woman is far less likely to cheat on her husband if she gets no pleasure from it, it's the same mentality that forces woman to wear burqas so they don't attract the attention of men other than her husband.

Control of woman is the bottom line.

Dude, as far as I'm aware a woman who wears a burqa does so out of her own choice. I've never in my life came across a woman who is "forced" to wear one, by her husband or anyone.

Kotek Besar

rambutman wrote: »

practice in S.E. Asia too...................what i found disturbing was that religious leaders telling the people that it was required for religion.

+1. Very true.

yammycat

Kotek Besar wrote: »

Dude, as far as I'm aware a woman who wears a burqa does so out of her own choice. I've never in my life came across a woman who is "forced" to wear one, by her husband or anyone.

Well now you know.

meryem

It's a practice developed by evils minds with evil intentions and has nothing to do with religion.

chicken fingers

Why didn't Muhammed man up and tell her not to mutilate the babies, rather than advising her on how to do it correctly?

Kotek Besar

chicken fingers wrote: »

Why didn't Muhammed man up and tell her not to mutilate the babies, rather than advising her on how to do it correctly?

Dunno, good question. If he were around we could ask him!

Jaafa

chicken fingers wrote: »

Why didn't Muhammed man up and tell her not to mutilate the babies, rather than advising her on how to do it correctly?

Question the Hadiath before you question the man. As the OP said its a weak Hadiath is therefore probably not reliable. Even the strong ones are a bit iffy at times.

oceanclub

Just to note that this bill has passed the final stage both through the Seanad and Dail:

http://www.ivanabacik.com/archives/682

Legislation banning FGM in Ireland is long overdue. International research shows the enormous dangers to the health of women and girls represented by the barbaric practice of femalegenital mutilation. The NGO Akidwa, with whom I have worked closely on this legislation, estimates that over 3,000 women living in Ireland have undergone FGM - so this is a pressing issue in this country, particularlyfor migrant women and girls and their families. I am delighted that we have now introduced legislation specifically prohibiting the practice and ensuring that anyone resident in Ireland who takes a girl abroad to have FGM performed there will now be subject to prosecution in Ireland. I would like to pay tribute to Akidwa and all the other organisations that have worked for many years on passing this legislation.”

Akidwa can be found at: http://www.akidwa.ie/

P.

irishconvert

oceanclub wrote: »

Just to note that this bill has passed the final stage both through the Seanad and Dail:

http://www.ivanabacik.com/archives/682

Good news.

stoneill

I'm not religious but curious about the thought process that goes on.

If a woman feels she must have female circumcision based or religious or faith grounds (as per the original post), and it seems that it is not required in the Islamic religion, does that mean that religious teaching to women in the Islamic faith is flawed or misunderstood?
Just wondering.

hivizman

stoneill wrote: »

I'm not religious but curious about the thought process that goes on.

If a woman feels she must have female circumcision based or religious or faith grounds (as per the original post), and it seems that it is not required in the Islamic religion, does that mean that religious teaching to women in the Islamic faith is flawed or misunderstood?
Just wondering.

I don't think that you can deal with this at too general a level. Some women believe, incorrectly, that female genital mutilation is required by Islam. This may be because long-standing cultural practices became assimilated to Islam in some (by no means all) geographical locations where Islam became influential, and some male Muslim scholars have taught that female genital mutilation is either required or at the least desirable. This does not mean that religious teaching to women in the Islamic faith is flawed or misunderstood in general.

The Muslim academic Kecia Ali concludes the chapter on female genital mutilation in her book Sexual Ethics and Islam: Feminist Reflections on Qur'an, Hadith and Jurisprudence (Oxford: OneWorld, 2006, p. 111):

Rather than ask whether or not female circumcision is Islamic, it is more helpful to ask what legal or ethical values should be assigned to the range of practices that fall under the rubric of FGC [Female Genital Cutting]. And indeed, if one determines that such practices are reprehensible or forbidden - verdicts for which I think there is a great deal of justification in the texts - then one must attempt to discern the best way to combat their performance. At the same time, it can be difficult to resist the temptation to make totalizing claims based on one's own sense of justice, particularly when debates are not merely theoretical but result in real injury to real women and girls.

Her view is that, looking at the sources of Islamic jurisprudence, the evidence in favour of female genital mutilation is acknowledged to be weak (a technical term for hadiths which reduces their reliability as the basis for supporting specific practices), and any apparent tolerance among early Muslims may be for a milder form of cutting that was, if anything, less invasive than male circumcision. Even this, she argues, may be an example of Islam tolerating existing local practices in areas where Islam has been introduced but hoping that the practices would subsequently die out. Unfortunately, female genital mutilation helps to support male hegemony, so cultural forces worked to maintain a practice that has no clear support, and plenty of opposition, in Islam.

oceanclub

This is horrendous. Initially I thought the article was about abuse in Somalia, but it's actually happening here:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2012/0508/ireland/anti-mutilation-campaigner-told-she-would-be-beheaded-193134.html#.T6k0RHqB000.twitter

A Somali campaigner against female circumcision has said she had to leave her home in the face of a campaign of web hatred and abusive phonecalls, including one threat that she would be beheaded.



Ifrah Ahmed, 23, who has been living in Ireland for six years, claimed the abuse was sparked by the passing of laws in Ireland relating to female genital mutilation.

She said within a day of appearing on Newstalk radio for a brief interview, not connected with the issue, on Apr 21, she received a phonecall from a man who said she would have her head cut off.

She said that two days later, a three-year-old photo of her when she was a contestant in the Face of Africa Ireland contest was posted on a Somali website, attracting vitriolic comment.

Ms Ahmed, a victim of genital mutilation, said on one occasion her doorbell rang after midnight and she had felt so threatened she decided to leave her Dublin house for one night. The passing of the Criminal Justice (Female Genital Mutilation) Bill 2011 last March sparked fresh abuse.

Referring to the aftermath of the Newstalk Global Village interview, she said: "The next day I found my picture all over the place and people accusing me of doing the wrong thing.

"I was on Twitter, Facebook and a couple of Somali websites, people just saying how bad I am."

She said some of the abuse was linked to the picture, with some accusing her of not dressing appropriately as a Muslim, while other abuse was linked to the mutilation issue.

P.

golden lane

the practice is barbaric......carried out by brainless selfish idiots.......and should be punished by the death penalty........

KamiKazi

meryem wrote: »

It's a practice developed by evils minds with evil intentions and has nothing to do with religion.

Same thing, especially with Islam.

dead one

KamiKazi wrote: »

Same thing, especially with Islam.

evil intentions, once intentions are corrupt there is no cure. Same thing, especially with kazi.