Cynical re - taking of Kharkov by Nazis

gugleguy

I am always baffled why the Nazis re took Kharkov for the Third Time.
Surely this was a huge drain on resources. And what was there left in Kharkov to take? Was this the last great move of Army group Ukraine?

Morlar

gugleguy wrote: »

I am always baffled why the Nazis re took Kharkov for the Third Time.
Surely this was a huge drain on resources. And what was there left in Kharkov to take? Was this the last great move of Army group Ukraine?

There is an ok synopsis here :

http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=58
http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=50
http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=39

I think the overall context and overall objective is important to consider here too. Within the Eastern front, one army group could be called on to relieve pressure on another army group in a co-ordinated fashion, for example to prevent massive reinforcements being moved from one area to an area which was in a more precarious position.

I believe there were major red army actions going on in the Leningrad front at this time (though I would have to check to confirm), also the germans would have been reeling from the fall of stalingrad, so there appear to be a lot of factors to consider, not to mention weather, supplies, state of the enemy and so on, so I don't think taking the event in isolation is going to be the best approach.

BlaasForRafa

gugleguy wrote: »

I am always baffled why the Nazis re took Kharkov for the Third Time.
Surely this was a huge drain on resources. And what was there left in Kharkov to take? Was this the last great move of Army group Ukraine?

I'm a little bit baffled by your post to be honest.

Are you referring to the Third Battle of Kharkov? That was carried out by Army Group South, Army Group Ukraine didn't exist yet.

If so that is one of the textbook examples of armoured counterattack, its still being taught in military colleges today.

Offhand I can think of several reasons why the germans would counter-attack.

1. Because they could. They have several fresh well equipped panzer divisions on the scene like the Leibstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf and Grossdeutschland and the soviet attacking armies were overstretched and lacking in supplies.
2. To cut off a large salient in the german lines that could have been used by the Soviets to cross over the Dneipr.
3. To straighten the lines in the south and allow a number of shattered divisions to regroup after the retreat from Operation Uranus.
4. To take the pressure away from Kleists Army Group A and allow them to conclude a successful retreat over the Kerch straight from the Caucasus into Crimea.

One thing that is annoying about the Third Battle of Kharkov is all the attention gets put on the Waffen SS units involved whereas the Heer were heavily involved too and it was a Heer Field Marshal (von Manstein) that masterminded the counter-attack.

I hope I'm being helpful here, if your referring to something completely different please let me know, I could be completely off the mark.

jonniebgood1

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Offhand I can think of several reasons why the germans would counter-attack.

1. Because they could. They have several fresh well equipped panzer divisions on the scene like the Leibstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf and Grossdeutschland and the soviet attacking armies were overstretched and lacking in supplies.
2. To cut off a large salient in the german lines that could have been used by the Soviets to cross over the Dneipr.
3. To straighten the lines in the south and allow a number of shattered divisions to regroup after the retreat from Operation Uranus.
4. To take the pressure away from Kleists Army Group A and allow them to conclude a successful retreat over the Kerch straight from the Caucasus into Crimea.
.

One of the most notable factors would be the superior German tank numbers in the area of the counter attack.
I would also add revenge to your list- They had been well beaten by the Russians for much of the previous winter offensive. The re-taking of Kharkov at the time the Russian offensive came to an end was not a coincidence. Many of the German units felt humiliated by the recent defeats. Added to this was that the Soviet force that had taken Kharkov was not consolidated adequately due to stretched lines and the short time between what are known as the 2nd and 3rd battles

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

One thing that is annoying about the Third Battle of Kharkov is all the attention gets put on the Waffen SS units involved whereas the Heer were heavily involved too and it was a Heer Field Marshal (von Manstein) that masterminded the counter-attack.

This is most likely due to the initial German response which was to celebrate the victory for propaganda purposes which usually meant crediting the SS over the normal forces.