Troops in Contact: The Rionegro Mandate

jeawan

Harveey wrote: »

Lucky there are no rivers

/cough there is a stream :P

cathal_flynn

jeawan wrote: »

/cough there is a stream :P

thats enough for an idiot of his standard to fall into

sliabh

jeawan wrote: »

/cough there is a stream :P

And a lake...

richieffff

Yay finally paid
Hope the registration form works, wasn't quite sure how to do it.

Heavies here I come (or Brigada de Penitente)

Harveey

I'll just get some camo bubblewrap to be safe

cathal_flynn

Harveey wrote: »

I'll just get some camo bubblewrap to be safe

that will do the trick...and ya can be used as a raft

cobra 08

Just played Bellurgan for the first time on Sunday and have to say lads you picked the perfect site for it. Was disappointed this was arranged for a weekend I can't make it but after seeing the site I'm now raging:mad:

I wish you the best of luck with this and I hope it's such a success that you do another one before the years out. And anybody that has booked this or is thinking of booking your in for an epic weekend.

jeawan

cobra 08 wrote: »

Just played Bellurgan for the first time on Sunday and have to say lads you picked the perfect site for it. Was disappointed this was arranged for a weekend I can't make it but after seeing the site I'm now raging:mad:

I wish you the best of luck with this and I hope it's such a success that you do another one before the years out. And anybody that has booked this or is thinking of booking your in for an epic weekend.

Agreed and it is great for being sneakie

sliabh

Based on feedback and so on we have made some small tweaks to the rules. You can see version 1.1 here.

The significant changes are:

• 1 hour respawn time for EMs. This will encourage them to keep out of the firing line, and to allow them to visit the game HQ and get story updates, have a chat etc.
• Confirmed that bbs must be in magazines and cannot be loose.
• Set a 200 round limit for support gun magazines in the MilSim units.
• Said "Approximately" 1 medic to 10 players. This will be looser for small units (SF, Guerillas, PMCs).
• We will provide the triage cards to milsim medic players.
• Rewrote the section on what to do when you are dead. "Tell no tales", "Remain calm", "Don't take it with you". Regretably I was vetoed on including zombie rules.
• Made it consistent that the respawn location is the medic clinic. It used to say the command post.
• Changed the driver hit rules to say a hit on the man is needed, rather then the window.

And the big one:

• Added a section on tents and camping. Read this is if you plan to sleep "in-game".

The_ChiefDUB

How strict are the rules on magazine ammo limits going to be for the MilSim units? And is there any chance that it could be opened up to discussion? Because I have to say that I think the rules as they stand are pretty unrealistic in terms of how many mags people would be expected to carry (or own) and in terms of how enforceable the rules actually are.
For example - in the rules it states that a STANAG type mag can take 30 rounds (plus 4 extra - presumably because many mags simply won't fire all the BBs they have in them). There is an ammo limit of 600 rounds per person. That means carrying around 17 or 18 mags for most AEGs. Now I like to carry a lot of mags and I like limited ammo - that's why all my mid caps are 70 rounds max. The most I could carry on my tac vest is ten mags - plus 1 in my rifle - that's all my mags (and I'm including two high caps). To buy another six mags just so I will not be at a huge disadvantage when it comes to ammo is not something that I can afford to do - and it's not something I am really interested in doing either since I will never again have a need for some many magazines.
What do the other MilSim team players think? What do the organisers think about bending the rules here? How are we to ensure that no one is over filling their mags? And how are you even supposed to make sure you are not over filling your own mags without sitting down for a half hour and carefully counting out the exact number while you are reloading?

jeawan

The_ChiefDUB wrote: »

How strict are the rules on magazine ammo limits going to be for the MilSim units? And is there any chance that it could be opened up to discussion? Because I have to say that I think the rules as they stand are pretty unrealistic in terms of how many mags people would be expected to carry (or own) and in terms of how enforceable the rules actually are.
For example - in the rules it states that a STANAG type mag can take 30 rounds (plus 4 extra - presumably because many mags simply won't fire all the BBs they have in them). There is an ammo limit of 600 rounds per person. That means carrying around 17 or 18 mags for most AEGs. Now I like to carry a lot of mags and I like limited ammo - that's why all my mid caps are 70 rounds max. The most I could carry on my tac vest is ten mags - plus 1 in my rifle - that's all my mags (and I'm including two high caps). To buy another six mags just so I will not be at a huge disadvantage when it comes to ammo is not something that I can afford to do - and it's not something I am really interested in doing either since I will never again have a need for some many magazines.
What do the other MilSim team players think? What do the organisers think about bending the rules here? How are we to ensure that no one is over filling their mags? And how are you even supposed to make sure you are not over filling your own mags without sitting down for a half hour and carefully counting out the exact number while you are reloading?

Most speed loaders feed 4 bb's into a mag at a time so 7.5 pushes on the speed loader fairly easy to know what you loading into mags , as for the amount of mags you carry i reckon it is up to the player on what he/she wants to carry

I am playing the Full Milsim rules and will be carrying 10 mags maximum if even and i don't plan on getting into massive firefights . again if you didn't like the Mag rule sets pick a different unit , I have played real cap in mags before it is a whole different game and you should love it man

Again i am happy with the rules for the Milsim units regarding ammo and know a few others that are too but i'll let them post the same.

The_ChiefDUB

Look, I'm not saying that I'm not looking forward to this game (I can't wait for it and I can't wait to play in a MilSim unit) - I just think that the disadvantage for the milsim units is likely to be pretty unrealistic in an encounter with a team that is using mostly high cap mags. Most games with ammo limits have those limits applied to all players - the idea of high cap versus real cap is one I haven't seen before.
Roughly the same effect could be achieved limiting the milsim units to normal mid cap rules but without limiting people on what they can carry purely because they haven't the money to afford enough mid cap mags to load them with real world limits.

What do others think? I'm certainly not considering changing team or dropping out of the game over this - it's just something that occurred to me while reading the rules and considering what gear I was going to be bringing.

Stonewolf

The real vs hi debate is mostly my fault. I suggested it might be worthwhile to include a small unit for people who wanted a taste of milsim but wanted to try before investing in all the gear. From this was born the Penitents.

On the other hand I would like to point out that the hi-cappers are also limited to a maximum of 600 rounds. Including any pistols they might carry.

Are you bringing a pistol? Spare ammo for your buddys SAW? All those 600 do not have (and are not expected) to be main armament ammunition. While it's to be expected that some hi-cappers will in fact dump 600 rounds into their hi-caps they will lose a little flexibility by doing so. Also insert snobbery about hi-cap players here which implies that you will kick their asses.

Bear in mind also that your mission profile may compensate for any lack of raw firepower.

The_ChiefDUB

Ha - so I'll come looking for you to vent my anger when I run out of ammo while trying to convince a high cap player to take his hits! ( I kid, I kid... I'm sure everyone will be beyond reproach in this game ).

Despite my doubts about this particular rule I am very much looking forward to seeing how this plays out. Full milsim games are something that I am very much interested in and I really do hope that this game is a massive success.

richieffff

If you're under 18 years of age is there a permission slip that you need a parent or guardian to sign before hand?

evilrobotshane

richieffff wrote: »

If you're under 18 years of age is there a permission slip that you need a parent or guardian to sign before hand?

There is; it's down the very bottom of the registration page.

http://www.bellurganpark.ie/products/product-a/

richieffff

Of course, you can understand how I missed

Thanks Shane

jeawan

Stonewolf wrote: »

The real vs hi debate is mostly my fault. I suggested it might be worthwhile to include a small unit for people who wanted a taste of milsim but wanted to try before investing in all the gear. From this was born the Penitents.

On the other hand I would like to point out that the hi-cappers are also limited to a maximum of 600 rounds. Including any pistols they might carry.

Are you bringing a pistol? Spare ammo for your buddys SAW? All those 600 do not have (and are not expected) to be main armament ammunition. While it's to be expected that some hi-cappers will in fact dump 600 rounds into their hi-caps they will lose a little flexibility by doing so. Also insert snobbery about hi-cap players here which implies that you will kick their asses.

Bear in mind also that your mission profile may compensate for any lack of raw firepower.

Id Agree high cap versus real we are at a disadvantage , But having said that i think the Full Milsim units will pick there fights as they know they have limited ammo and this is a milsim so play the role like you i am really looking forward to this .

Again i think the High caper for those that haven't played it is a great way to get into mislim with out a cost factor .

evilrobotshane

The_ChiefDUB wrote: »

There is an ammo limit of 600 rounds per person. That means carrying around 17 or 18 mags for most AEGs.

600 is a limit, not a requirement - you know, like how a speed limit doesn't mean you have to haul ass at 80kph down some bog road. I'd expect most players in milsim units to be packing around 300, we just didn't bother setting another lower total limit for them because the nature of the beast is kind of self-limiting anyway, as you've noticed.

How are we to ensure that no one is over filling their mags?

Spot-checks can be done, of course, and it should be pretty obvious if someone's rattling off 90 rounds in a burst - remember there's a marshal embedded with each unit to keep an eye. But mostly we're relying on the fact that this is airsoft, a game of honour. Cheating is cheating, be it overfilling mags or not taking hits, and cheating is not welcome by the organisers, nor by the players.

And how are you even supposed to make sure you are not over filling your own mags without sitting down for a half hour and carefully counting out the exact number while you are reloading?

As Jeawan noted, most speed loaders (all the ones I've ever used, certainly) pump out 4 per squeeze. You get the hang of it pretty quickly. A fair number of people used to do this all the time for The Jebrovian Conflict a couple of years ago, and for a number of the HRTA milsims - don't worry that it hasn't been tried before, it has and it works grand.

What hasn't been tried before, you're right, is mixing types of units with different rules. The intention was that people could pick their own playing style to some extent. We're not inclined to be flexible about it because the rules were available before the tickets went on sale - none of this was sprung on anybody, so our assumption is that anybody in a milsim unit is there because they know they'll be limited on ammo, and they're okay with that and reckon they can handle it anyway. If they don't like that, they'd sign up for one of the normal units.

Also, we're not designing the various units' objectives to necessarily go toe-to-toe in a straight fight with each other when it's not balanced out. The milsim units have objectives that are less oriented toward direct combat as a goal in itself.

We're hoping it'll work out okay. Part of what we're aiming to simulate here is supply issues and so on, so not every dude on the field is supposed to be exactly evenly matched anyway. You might decide you're in a situation where you're better off pulling back because you're outgunned, and that's intentional - another set of considerations for the milsim players to juggle in their heads when they're playing. Sounds like fun to me, but of course as the Americans say, your mileage may vary.

TNTQ

Prediction: Real Caps idea dies a death by 5.00pm Sat evening.

Don't get me wrong, I'll probably be rocking a sniper rifle so i'm not too bothered by these limits but I can see a lot of lads getting very frustrated.

At 1 Joule, I don't think this is very realistic, especially with other factions rocking the kiddie rattles.

I'd love it to work, but I cant see it...

*runs and hides

goblin59

Fair point from TNTQ,

Is there going to marshalls enforcing the real caps rule and doing spot checks?

cathal_flynn

to be quite hounest when i first seen this event i was dying to go....until i seen it was milsim. this posed a big danger to my hopes as im only 16 , no job and i have little to no money(hell the ticket alone ment i had to sell my 1911 ). anyway i gave up on going for 2 weeks then a mate off mine told me there was a unit allowed to use hi-caps what a releif :P i dont know if you were thinking of people like me who cant just go out and fork over 50+ quid on midcaps but THANK YOU!

i really cant wait for this!!!:pac:

sliabh

goblin59 wrote: »

Fair point from TNTQ,

Is there going to marshalls enforcing the real caps rule and doing spot checks?

Yeah. There will be the Bellurgan site marshals, and the embedded ones in each unit.

Bear in mind that everyone is going to be working to ammo limits. And it is a big site. If you are used to shooting off a bottle or two of BBs in a days skirmishing you are going to have to make a big adjustment to playing with a 600 limit, and then having a trek to go for a reload (possibly on your own, possibly through hostile territory).

Personally I have never fired a shot on a site from a hi-cap in my life. Most skirmishes I am out there with 5-6 x 100 bb mags and I go toe to toe with players who's grasp of fire discipline is "unleash the white stream of death!". I'd go through maybe 700-1000 bbs in a day and I certainly give as good as I get in terms of hits.

Over here in Austria milsim is practically non-existent. I'd say half of all players are hi-cappers. And I can still game with them using my SRC MP5 which only has 50 bb mags.

I don't want people to think I am being snobby or anything. It's just a style of play. But I do think it is possible to mix real and hi-cap players.

jeawan

TNTQ wrote: »

Prediction: Real Caps idea dies a death by 5.00pm Sat evening.

Don't get me wrong, I'll probably be rocking a sniper rifle so i'm not too bothered by these limits but I can see a lot of lads getting very frustrated.

At 1 Joule, I don't think this is very realistic, especially with other factions rocking the kiddie rattles.

I'd love it to work, but I cant see it...

*runs and hides

I disagree i think the people that are playing the real cap milsim with enjoy the challenge and again it is not like we are going to go toe to toe with a full unit as we are a smaller unit , Tactic retreat take them on your terms etc .

Again if you getting annoyed with real cap by 5pm you should be picking a unit that is carrying 600 rounds in midcaps or high caps . Again like Shane said the real cap games have being played in HRTA before and went down well a few wasted there ammo in seconds and learned the hard way .

Again comparing this to sennybridge this if it works well would be allot more fun i think as i think the lads have put in a load of work on the missions objectives and so on . the fact the SF,engineers and ESS units have very little ammo i think adds to the game more .

sliabh

cathal_flynn wrote: »

to be quite hounest when i first seen this event i was dying to go....until i seen it was milsim. this posed a big danger to my hopes as im only 16 , no job and i have little to no money(hell the ticket alone ment i had to sell my 1911 ). anyway i gave up on going for 2 weeks then a mate off mine told me there was a unit allowed to use hi-caps what a releif :P i dont know if you were thinking of people like me who cant just go out and fork over 50+ quid on midcaps but THANK YOU!

i really cant wait for this!!!:pac:

We never said it was MilSim. In fact we explicitly said it isn't!

From our blurb:

What is this: A story driven, 27 hour airsoft event with ammo limits, simple medic rules, and pre-assigned teams. This is not a full MilSim, but there will be opportunities for LARPing and more. We want to give people something different to the usual weekend skirmish. We hope to develop the airsoft scene in Ireland by offering players from all around the country a chance to meet new people, and play in a bigger event without having to travel abroad.

The idea is to allow different styles of play depending on how committed people want (and are able) to get.

TNTQ

sliabh wrote: »

I don't want people to think I am being snobby or anything. It's just a style of play. But I do think it is possible to mix real and hi-cap players.

Darn it, how did I end up being the one fighting against the real-cap idea?

I'm not fighting it, I'm just predicting that even seasoned players after a whole day's play will become tired and frustrated having their ass's handed to them by a group of players who they perceive to have infinite ammo.

Prediction stands: 1 Joule and real caps = dodgy :pac:

TNTQ

jeawan wrote: »

Again if you getting annoyed with real cap by 5pm you should be picking a unit that is carrying 600 rounds in midcaps or high caps . Again like Shane said the real cap games have being played in HRTA before and went down well a few wasted there ammo in seconds and learned the hard way .

Again comparing this to sennybridge this if it works well would be allot more fun i think as i think the lads have put in a load of work on the missions objectives and so on . the fact the SF,engineers and ESS units have very little ammo i think adds to the game more .

Don't get me wrong mate, I'm Milsim all the way (ask around :pac:)

Just pointing out that 1 Joule and realcaps on a large site against people you don't know........hmmm

Hope to hell it works

evilrobotshane

TNTQ wrote: »

I'll probably be rocking a sniper rifle so i'm not too bothered by these limits

I'd have expected snipers to be the most bothered, the capacity on them is tiny and many don't have many magazines.

In practical terms though, it's just about reloading more often, really. Even high-caps can't fire forever, you need to take some time out to wind.

TNTQ

evilrobotshane wrote: »

I'd have expected snipers to be the most bothered, the capacity on them is tiny and many don't have many magazines.

In practical terms though, it's just about reloading more often, really. Even high-caps can't fire forever, you need to take some time out to wind.

The least bothered :pac: L96 mags are tiny, 1 dump bag probably can hold bout 30 and from what I've heard about the terrain and cover up at Bellurgan... I hear it'll be sniper heaven :pac:

Leftyflip

Ah now for feck sake, having to count BBs?!? Shane, you better have my abacus!

sliabh

TNTQ wrote: »

Darn it, how did I end up being the one fighting against the real-cap idea?

I'm not fighting it, I'm just predicting that even seasoned players after a whole day's play will become tired and frustrated having their ass's handed to them by a group of players who they perceive to have infinite ammo.

Prediction stands: 1 Joule and real caps = dodgy :pac:

The whole mixed rules thing is probably the most "interesting" thing we are going to try all weekend. Lets see how it works. But as Shane said as well as the game play thing, there is a story element to it. The PMCs, and Special Forces are supposed to be cut off from normal supply. The Civilians aren't supposed to be tooled up. And the Engineers, well they should call for support from the Light Infantry or the Penitents (hi-cappers) if they need it.

We will see on the day(s) how it goes.

jeawan

TNTQ wrote: »

Don't get me wrong mate, I'm Milsim all the way (ask around :pac:)

Just pointing out that 1 Joule and realcaps on a large site against people you don't know........hmmm

Hope to hell it works

Fair enough man but take this i played there on sunday for the whole day and carried my new VFC M4 ES lancer and only used about 500 rounds as i was using 50 round mid caps and only carrying 6 of em and one 120 round midcap vs high caps .

I was being very sneakie though

TNTQ

jeawan wrote: »

Fair enough man but take this i played there on sunday for the whole day and carried my new VFC M4 ES lancer and only used about 500 rounds as i was using 50 round mid caps and only carrying 6 of em and one 120 round midcap vs high caps .

I was being very sneakie though

Plus we sprinkled awesome dust on your AEG......

Stonewolf

You're just not hardcore enough Sliabh.

I generally come in under the 600 limit for an entire days skirmish, I've had the same bag of BBs for months. Half my mags only get about 24 useful shots and require 4 followers!

On a less comparative note I really think you're overestimating the problem. Read the Penitents brief, they're shock troops which means they'll probably be deployed for hard and fast assaults, which are hard, bloody and usually very costly for the attacker. The medium units are irregular and regular infantry, the people who will be doing most of the leg work and generally if there's a penitent assault the ones doing the repulsing. The milsim units are a small group of PMCs whose objectives are their own, an SF unit who will spend most of the time hiding in a bush only taking action when the odds are significantly in their favour and then vanishing into the undergrowth afterwards and the engineers who will generally be able to call on friendlies for support.

For reference the numbers break down (as of posting) as:
9 hi-caps
64 mid-caps
34 real-caps/milsim
2 LARP

TerrenceAnth

Yes yes the weaker men and ladys will sleep as for us hardcore guys when night falls we will climb trees and do assassins creed dives on our enemies!

We work in the dark to serve the light.

*backs into the darkness*
^^ something harvey cant do because he will fall backwords into the lake^^

Harveey

Now now Terry
I'l be able to find you before you find me

goblin59

we shall use the child tracker 3000 to find the opposition. its quite discreet so they shall never notice that thyve been bugged.

TerrenceAnth

Says you harvey i can hide when i want to just need to find one big damn tree lol + you wont b able to see me with the hellfire of bbs ill fire at you.

MY BBS WILL BLOCK OUT THE SUN!

Harveey

^^Gives himself away by running out of bb's and the sun re-appears and his gold pistol gleams in the sunlight

TerrenceAnth

damn you hearvy you win this one lol!
Im thinkin bout lleaving goldy at home and just taking the m9 and the ww2 1911 as side arms :P i dunno i do like goldy but shes not a milsim gun!

Well its not milsim but you know she doesnt feel right to take to this one

sliabh

TerrenceAnth wrote: »

damn you hearvy you win this one lol!
Im thinkin bout lleaving goldy at home and just taking the m9 and the ww2 1911 as side arms :P i dunno i do like goldy but shes not a milsim gun!

Well its not milsim but you know she doesnt feel right to take to this one

Depends on your faction. You could play a great gangster in the Civilians.

TerrenceAnth

sliabh wrote: »

Depends on your faction. You could play a great gangster in the Civilians.

That is very true if i was playing as the gorillas i would have taken the gold colt and an ak47

But..... im in the light infantry! :P

Gunnar

hi is this event totally booked?

sliabh

Gunnar wrote: »

hi is this event totally booked?

Nope. We still have spaces in:

• Republicano Penitents (hicap)
• Republicano Engineers (MilSim)
• Patriota Heavies
• Civilians - where we won't have a player cap, but guns are discouraged.

Hande hoche!

Lads will the next batch of tickets have more places for the 25th light infantry?
Cheers.

Damo 2k9

If your on the penitent brigade, you can still use midcaps right?

sliabh

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

If your on the penitent brigade, you can still use midcaps right?

Yeah. And it you want to go real cap you can too.

sliabh

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Lads will the next batch of tickets have more places for the 25th light infantry?
Cheers.

Short answer - maybe.

We want to clear the remaining 15-20 tickets before we release any more. And then we will provide 5-10 tickets at a time into 1 unit each of the Patriotas and Republicanos. Exactly which units are TBD, so I can't promise it will be the 25th Light Infantry.

Damo 2k9

Anymore tickets for the guerillas ? :P

sliabh

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

Anymore tickets for the guerillas ? :P

I am afraid not. That was the first one to fill up.

Random stats. We have sold 110 tickets so far. The average player age is 29, with the youngest being 16 and the oldest (claiming) 55.