work for Irish law grads abroad? NZ/UK//Oz/Canada?

heylila

Hi guys,

As the title says I'm just wondering if there are any oppurtunities for Irish Law Grads abroad? I'v tried researching it but can find v little info and would love to hear from any grads with experience of this or who know people who have gone abroad.

I have an LLB and a 1.1 LLM but don't have any of my fe1's done and can't face the prospect of doing them now without much hope of getting an apprenticeship. Am applying for jobs and am finding that I can't get ANYTHING.... more than a few people have said to me that Law is the new Arts

Anyway, am just sick and tired of being on the dole and not getting any experience or work so seriously looking into going abroad asap. Hoping that it's not the case that it'll be nearly impossible to get something abroad too.

Hoping someone will tell me I'm wrong in thinking there are no jobs anywere abroad for law grads with little experience either! Would go almost anywhere within reason for an alright job!

Would really appreciate any advice or information which anyone may have or even PM me if you like! Again, would be so grateful for anything! Am at my wits end! Thanks in advance!

CantGetNoSleep

Where is your llm from?

dats_right

http://www.lawsociety.ie/Pages/News/Information-Evenings-on-International-Opportunities/

The Law Society Career Support are holding a series of 3 Information Evenings on ‘International Opportunities’.
Mon 4th April**-* Working and Qualifying in Canada & USA in Blackhall Place* 6pm – 8pm
Mon 11th April**-* Working and Qualifying in Australia & NZ in Blackhall Place* 6pm – 8pm
Mon 18th April**-* Working and Qualifying in Britain & Europe in Blackhall Place* 6pm – 8pm

heylila

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Where is your llm from?

LLM is from UL from a year ago so not LSE or Cambridge or anywhere!

Thanks for the links to the law society events...had seen those already and reckon they are moer aimed at qualified solicitors here looking to do conversion courses to work abroad. As I'm not qualified, I was just wondering if anyone had any knowledge really or firsthand experience of having moved abroad looking for work as a law grad....am beginning to think all the law heads are just staying put here!

Thanks for the help so far!

Peregrinus

I qualified in the '80s when, on account of a recession, lots of law graduates (though not, as it happens, me) left the country immediately on graduating. In London and further afield they were considered highly recruitable in the banking, financial services, management consultancy and other industries. i don't recall that many entering the legal profession overseas. A much more common route to legal practice overseas was to qualify as a solicitor or barrister in Ireland, and then emigrate and requalify.

Things, of course, may have changed since I were a young 'un. But, FWIW, if my experience is anything to go by, and if you have your heart set on legal practice, the best route may be to complete your professional qualifications in Ireland, and then emigrate. If anything, requalifying overseas on the basis of an Irish qualification has become easier than it was in the '80s.

On the other hand, if you are open to a career outside the legal profession, by all means consider applying to graduate recruitment programmes in other industries in the UK, or further afield.

heylila

Peregrinus wrote: »

I qualified in the '80s when, on account of a recession, lots of law graduates (though not, as it happens, me) left the country immediately on graduating. In London and further afield they were considered highly recruitable in the banking, financial services, management consultancy and other industries. i don't recall that many entering the legal profession overseas. A much more common route to legal practice overseas was to qualify as a solicitor or barrister in Ireland, and then emigrate and requalify.

Things, of course, may have changed since I were a young 'un. But, FWIW, if my experience is anything to go by, and if you have your heart set on legal practice, the best route may be to complete your professional qualifications in Ireland, and then emigrate. If anything, requalifying overseas on the basis of an Irish qualification has become easier than it was in the '80s.

On the other hand, if you are open to a career outside the legal profession, by all means consider applying to graduate recruitment programmes in other industries in the UK, or further afield.

Thanks a million for that! Not interested in qualifying to practice anywhere else as want to come back here in a few years and qualify so will definitely have a look at some of the grad programmes in the UK because I am open to any type of work really!

MilkTheGroup

im in a similar situation as yourself. i have a 2.1 BCL and 2.2 LLM, cant stomach sitting the fe1s with the lack of apprenticeships, and am looking to use my degree abroad. I tried to book a place for those law society seminars however i was told "Unfortunately Career Support is only available to qualified solicitors and post PPC2 trainees"...

NoQuarter

Guys just an idea but when I was in my final year law I got in touch with just a small/medium sized firm, told them I would work for free for 1 day a week while studying and I was offered an apprenticeship within a few short months. Might be worth a shot but you'll need the fe1s under your belt with a small firm, I dont have them but its hampering any start date of an apprenticeship!

littlemac1980

I agree with No Quarter. I finished college in June 2009, when prospects for Law Grads in this country were worse than they are now. At that time, no firm or practice could definitively state that they would be open in 6 months time. At least that general sense of unknown has now settled down somewhat.

Anyway, I started work with a small country practice, initially requesting a few weeks pro-bono work to brush up on my office skills. Within a month it was clear to the Boss that I was a very valuable addition to the office, and he made it clear that he would do his best to keep me on and pay me reasonable wages. This was even before I had done my FE-1's.

I have now completed all those and am due to start the PPC1 this September.

It's very important to realise, that if you can get your foot in the door, and demonstrate real ability and desire to learn and work, most job places will find it hard to come to a decision that they are better off without you, and will do their best to keep you on.

A major problem with the attitudes of job-seekers these days is that they are used to the recruitment agency culture, and HR interview process. Those are just filters to help establish who is the best person for the job. If you are capable of demonstrating to someone that you are a valuable, hardworking individual, you can bypass those middle-men agencies and departments. Small firms do not use agencies or HR departments.

More importantly though, the Solicitor I work for in a Gentleman and exceptional practitioner of his Trade. He covers ALL areas of law, and while admittedly I may not acquire specialist knowledge in certain niche areas, I can always focus on progressing my knowledge of specific areas at a later date.

What, at least for me, is most important at this stage of my career, is to obtain the best, most thorough, and well round guidance to the core principles of the legal trade. Working and Learning in this small firm (I can't speak for them all) is, to my mind, far more advantageous to me, in the long run, than being able to put one of the 'big' five, or the like, on my CV.

So my point is, think outside the box.

I know this doesn't really answer your question, but it is somewhat relevant, because if you are sure you want to practice in this country, then keep trying to get some legal experience here, even if it means working in a small town somewhere for a couple of years.

Also, I did my LLB in UL, so stating that you didn't go to Cambridge is a tad defeatest, if you don't mind me saying. I don't think the fact of where you learnt what you learnt is of any significance, provided you learnt well.

Summer2013

Hi guys, hi to heylila! thanks so much for posting, it is so good to know that there are other people in a similar position to myself. It feels like no one is talking about the devastating lack of opportunties for law grads and it's so good to know that other people have struggled like me.

I graduated from UL in 2010 with a 1.1 LLB, then started my LLM in UCC. But mid way through I lost all hope of getting a job, I struggled to motivate myself for a very intense masters, became completely overwhelmed and quit. Then I worked as a waitress for 6 months, worked really hard but struggled to pay rent, and bills, then I ended up on the dole. Because I was a graduate not a pram pushing drop out, I was treated like crap by the dole office who tried every trick in the book to avoid paying me until (and here's where my legal smarts came in handy) I made detailed records, wrote them a registered letter and threatened them with the ombudsman. Thankfully after 3 months, after a tip from a firend about the great internship opportunties, I got a great Jobbridge placement as a secretary with the Legal Aid Board, (I couldnt get a paid job as a secretary even though I applied for many many many of these positions and had experience). The people were so lovely and that has given me the courage and confidence to go back to the LLM and try to finish it off which I'm doing now.

I think the Universities have taken a lazy enough appraoch to helping law grads deal with their career paths and convert to other countries professional standards. Equally, I hate the way the Law Society is only for solicitors, I got the same story when I wanted to find out if I could convert to work in Oz. Believe me after nearly 3 years of post graduation panic, I have looked into everything from emigrating, to PhDs to starting over to becoming a beautician and I have come up with nothing. I am due to meet a proffessional career guidance counsellor next week and I can only hope she'll be able to give me some direction. I'm going to pull out all the stops and I'm going to "think outside the box" as "littlemac1980" suggests. The tragic thing is I absolutely love law. But at the moment it's like an abusive relationship, it's all one way, I give and I give and I give and I get nothing back in return! Well, I'm sick of it and we may have to call it a day soon.

In the meantime, and on a more serious note I'd love to hear how all of you got on and if you found a direction.

valleyoftheunos

There are apprenticeships out there but you need to differentiate yourself from other candidates to get them.

Getting experience and extra curricular achievements are the best ways I think, a candidate that has shown good initiative or done something remarkable in another area is much more interesting to a firm than 8 FE-1s.

I would say that Littlemac gives great advice about making yourself useful in a firm. So many trainees start as an intern and over time demonstrate that they are actually generating income for the firm through the work they are doing. Once a firm see's that they will want to hang on to you.

With regards to practicing in other jurisdictions, qualifying here first is only truly helpful in relation to the UK where you can transfer easily. Everywhere else, USA, Canada, Australia and NZ included you almost have to requalify. it takes up to 2 years and some jurisdictions have significant costs attached.

Procrastastudy

Universities might take a lazy view but students are masters of their own destinies.

GCD do everything for you, FLAC centre, Innocence Project (with a huge uptake of GCD students in comparison to the TCD, and now DCU, students), placements, career guidance and networking events. The uptake is a joke. Somewhere around 10% of second years and 25% of third years.

It's not hard to present yourself at a solicitors firm and get work experience - it just never crosses the majority of students minds. Differentiate, USP - there are jobs out there it's just highly competitive.

Blackrockcomet

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Universities might take a lazy view but students are masters of their own destinies.

GCD do everything for you, FLAC centre, Innocence Project (with a huge uptake of GCD students in comparison to the TCD, and now DCU, students), placements, career guidance and networking events. The uptake is a joke. Somewhere around 10% of second years and 25% of third years.

It's not hard to present yourself at a solicitors firm and get work experience - it just never crosses the majority of students minds. Differentiate, USP - there are jobs out there it's just highly competitive.

I'd have to take issue with the bolded bit. Certainly, if you want a traineeship you have to knock on doors and I know a few people who visited law firms at the perfect time when there was absolute chaos and they started straight away. However, there are plenty of solicitor practices who don't have enough work or who don't want to give work experience as they would feel either that they are giving false hope of a traineeship or exploiting would be trainees.
Lots of students drop in CVs where I work and most offer to work for free, I'm sure it's the same for most firms.The only ones who have been given work experience are relatives of solicitors/major clients. Students should look for work experience in any legal setting, using any contacts that they can but be under no illusions about how challenging it will be to even get that far

jenspondolik

This makes me feel better to see this, in 2008 i graduated from ucc with 1.1 llm but couldnt get apprenticeship and couldnt afford the fe1s. as a result, ended up in a shop for five years, only just after getting into an admin job and feel like i will be stuck in admin forever. i love the law but really cant see myself getting back into it so think i will do fe1s and hope for the best. my real concern now is that i have left it too long now and am not a 'recent graduate'.

heylila, hope you got a position since you posted, if you are unemployed try Jobridge there has been a number of internships, i would but not eligible as i am not in receipt of 3 months jobseekers. Good luck!