Feedback on Feedback

OldGoat

Feedback should be about sitewide topics but it isn't. Can all forum specific threads be kept in the specific forums?

There are numerous examples (and No I'm not going to cite them) of users posting in feedback just to further an argument that is not recieving enough attention in the local forum - or the poster has been banned from their local forum and is now banging a drum here instead. Feedback should not be a secondary platform for banned users to air their grievences outside their chosen forum.

These type of threads are often pre-ambled with a sitewide disclaimer proporting to be of value to the rest of the community but after the first few posts it becomes clear that they are simply pounding on a topic that is of no interest or use to anyone outside that particular topic.

To put it a bit more succintly and hypothetically, if smokers have an issue with a Smokers forum policy then isn't the arena for that discussion best off being in the Smoking forum? Surly then the same holds true for AH, Soccer, Politics et al..

Quazzie

I've been of the belief for a long time now that each Category should have its own individual feedback and Help Desk section. That way it is more likely to get dealt with appropriately and it would leave this feedback section for site wide issues as you suggest.

Insect Overlord

I set up a forum-specific feedback thread for Clearasil & Hormones when I was moderating it and it works well most of the time. Working on implementing something similar in the Limerick City forum soon as well. There do tend to be unreasonable points made from time to time, but that's true of every forum. It saved us a lot of unnecessary site-wide publicity whenever issues did arise.

That said, OP, I'm going to throw out a cliché here and say that if a thread isn't of one's personal interest, then they should just not read it. If you know a thread is about Politics/Soccer/After Hours, etc, then skip to the last page to mark it read and then move on to the next thread. Problem solved!

Wibbs

Insect Overlord wrote: »

I set up a forum-specific feedback thread for Clearasil & Hormones when I was moderating it and it works well most of the time. Working on implementing something similar in the Limerick City forum soon as well. There do tend to be unreasonable points made from time to time, but that's true of every forum. It saved us a lot of unnecessary site-wide publicity whenever issues did arise.

+1 We've done similar in the Ladies Lounge from time to time. Dealing directly with the fellow posters and all that. I know the same thread in here would for the most part be as pointless as a broken pencil.

OldGoat

Insect Overlord wrote: »

That said, OP, I'm going to throw out a cliché here and say that if a thread isn't of one's personal interest, then they should just not read it.

I'll retort with another time honored reply...I shouldn't have to ignore it - it shouldn't be there in the first place.

5starpool

Who made you the arbiter of what is accectable in Feedback?

Plenty of threads started in forums about that forums moderation policy (whether it be general rules or specific decisions) are moved to feedback by the relevant mods.

Also, how hard is it to skip over a thread you don't like? If there are individual places to post them, they are necessarily going to get less attention from admins who would read feedback as it is in one place, but might not be aware of a feedback type thread stuck somewhere fairly obscure. Individual moderation decisions are for Helpdesk/DRP, moderation policies in general, even within individual forums, are for feedback IMO.

Wibbs

5starpool wrote: »

If there are individual places to post them, they are necessarily going to get less attention from admins who would read feedback as it is in one place, but might not be aware of a feedback type thread stuck somewhere fairly obscure.

There is that to be fair.

OldGoat

Wibbs wrote: »

There is that to be fair.

That would be a point of moderation and the mods would then bring it to the attention of the admin if required.
Sitewide policy discussions should be here in feedback. What I am saying is that local issues should be kept local.

P. Breathnach

OldGoat wrote: »

... What I am saying is that local issues should be kept local.

Seems reasonable, but there are issues that might arise in one forum where any policy for addressing them should be a sitewide question.

A case in point is the discussion of dealing with abuse of non-members, where AH is being used as a representative example, but where any policy that evolves would be a sitewide one.

southsiderosie

Seeing as how I started one of these threads recently, it should be no surprise that I disagree.

I think there are two good reasons to post "specific" threads in Feedback:

1) It allows you to get perspectives from people who normally frequent other forums - For example, in the "what's wrong with the politics forum" thread, there have been numerous comments from mods on other parts of the site as to how they address issues of muppetry, etc. In particular, regulars in the soccer forum have contributed comments on how they handle similar problems. I think when trying to address broad issues within specific forums, it is useful to hear about how people handle similar issues in different forums.

2) When thinking about long-term issues with forums, I think posting here also allows us to get feedback from both current and former users of a forum. Certainly with regards to the politics thread, the feedback from former and non-regular users has been very helpful.

Ultimately, on such a big website, many of us are completely unaware of what goes on within other forums. When trying to problem-solve, I think presenting an issue in feedback gives us access to a greater diversity of ideas and insights than would be available in the individual forums in question. And I think that this can only help to strengthen individual forums and the website as a whole.

OldGoat

southsiderosie wrote: »

Seeing as how I started one of these threads recently, it should be no surprise that I disagree.

I think there are two good reasons to post "specific" threads in Feedback:

1) It allows you to get perspectives from people who normally frequent other forums - For example, in the "what's wrong with the politics forum" thread, there have been numerous comments from mods on other parts of the site as to how they address issues of muppetry, etc. In particular, regulars in the soccer forum have contributed comments on how they handle similar problems. I think when trying to address broad issues within specific forums, it is useful to hear about how people handle similar issues in different forums.

2) When thinking about long-term issues with forums, I think posting here also allows us to get feedback from both current and former users of a forum. Certainly with regards to the politics thread, the feedback from former and non-regular users has been very helpful.

Ultimately, on such a big website, many of us are completely unaware of what goes on within other forums. When trying to problem-solve, I think presenting an issue in feedback gives us access to a greater diversity of ideas and insights than would be available in the individual forums in question. And I think that this can only help to strengthen individual forums and the website as a whole.

I didn't target any post in particular SouthSideRosie. My post has been sitting on my desktop for a couple of months now, my own personal cooling off time if you will.
I understand the usefulness of sitewide feedback for a single forum and thats what happens as P. Breathnach mentions in regard to the AH thread. What pisses me off is when the threads become a secondary battleground for arguments that should be kept in the original forum. It's not constructive to anything, it serves to simply escallate (or mire depending on your point of view) the thread in a spiral of OT posts belabouring an already thrashed out point.
Good point with getting the views of ex-posters though, I'd not concidered that.

LoLth

In general, all feedback threads are based on specific examples and as such , all feedback threads are going to make reference to that particular instance or example. Its inevitable. Its rare for a feedback thread to appear that this doesnt happen with, even this one! (already its been targetted at a specific post or thread by a respondant).

That doesnt negate the usefulness of the thread as a whole though nor does it stop it from being feedback.

The tricky bit is, when does feedback stop being feedback and start being a second front for an ongoing argument? As I've posted before, I prefer feedback to be a little more lenient with the rules for posting and allow users to have more leeway in making their point, sometimes the sidetracks can reveal more interesting nuggets of information than the main point itself. I would only ask that, if an admin requests a user to get back on track, that they do. I also have the opinion that if a user demonstrates, repeatedly, that they have no interest in using this forum for feedback (a troll or a user that insists on only arguing their one single argument again and again at any opportunity, or worse, a user that refuses to give others the chance to have their say and browbeats others into accepting their point of view because they see it as some sort of "win") then they do not require the ability to post in feedback and their (negligible) contribution wont be missed. However, that action would not coem as a suprise to any user as there would be plenty of warning.

Individual category feedbacks: I dont think the level of traffic would warrant that. yes it would focus the content but it would also result in a lot of cross posting and simultaneous threads (users arguing in two threads on the same issue). At least having it all here, a suggestion for Motors could be picked up and used in Regional, feedback on forum A could have users or mods thinking how it applies to forum Z.

@southsiderosie:

completely agree on point 1. On point 2 though I would have to add "as long as its relevant and not taken as an opportunity to have a dig at a mod or mods that banned them or to try to re-enact what got them banned in the first place".

southsiderosie

OldGoat wrote: »

I didn't target any post in particular SouthSideRosie. My post has been sitting on my desktop for a couple of months now, my own personal cooling off time if you will.
I understand the usefulness of sitewide feedback for a single forum and thats what happens as P. Breathnach mentions in regard to the AH thread. What pisses me off is when the threads become a secondary battleground for arguments that should be kept in the original forum. It's not constructive to anything, it serves to simply escallate (or mire depending on your point of view) the thread in a spiral of OT posts belabouring an already thrashed out point.
Good point with getting the views of ex-posters though, I'd not concidered that.

Just to clarify, I didn't feel specifically targeted; I just wanted to given an example of why I think these kinds of threads are useful in Feedback, and it was easiest to highlight the thinking behind the politics thread.

I agree that the opportunity exists to become a secondary battleground, and as LOLth noted, some users do take advantage of feedback to get digs in that wouldn't be possible within the forum in question, but I don't think that we should throw the baby out with the bathwater.

AckwelFoley

OldGoat wrote: »

I'll retort with another time honored reply...I shouldn't have to ignore it - it shouldn't be there in the first place.

i agree and disagree with what you say.

Taking the smoking analogy, if they have a problem with the smokers forum, you will find 9 times out of 10 its a grievance they feel the hve with moderation or how it it's ran.

Posting in feedback is essentially speaking to the vatican rather than dealing with the diocese - generally find it a platform for people to air their grievance and feel that its getting looked at by a wider audience.

ie - should the smokers forum be a closed forum? If you debate that in the smokers forum you will have a biased and more focused opinion because the people in the forum have vested interest. If its debated on feedback, you will receive opinions from those in the smokers forum and those that don't and therefore a more balanced opinion perhaps.

The example Ive given is only an example and perhaps not a great one, but my point is - if there is an argument - sometimes its better to have opinions from people outside of the circle

I agree that yes threads can end up being petty squabbling matches, but that may be a question of moderation and perhaps not allowing it to progress that far without appearing as biased by closing it

Well, thats my feedback, on feedback feedback

Tallon

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Where is it going to end? Whats wrong with all the one forum? It has worked, is working, and should continue to work

I know you said you're not going to cite examples, but show me one thread that has not been about feedback, and not moved or locked?

My name is URL

I'm not sure if it would work for Feedback because a lot of what is posted here is pertinent to the way the site works as a whole, and not just the communities within.

Help Desk would function far better on such a design though, imo. If each category had a forum for dispute resolutions and general queries it would cut down on waiting for members and work for mods. If the Mod team of specific fora and C-Mods cannot rectify an issue they could elevate it to the attention of Admin for consideration.

LoLth

My name is URL wrote: »

I'm not sure if it would work for Feedback because a lot of what is posted here is pertinent to the way the site works as a whole, and not just the communities within.

agree with this bit

Help Desk would function far better on such a design though, imo. If each category had a forum for dispute resolutions and general queries it would cut down on waiting for members and work for mods. If the Mod team of specific fora and C-Mods cannot rectify an issue they could elevate it to the attention of Admin for consideration.

I can see why you would think this but, splitting up helpdesk / DRF would result in a lot of almost empty forums. I dont think the traffic is there to warrant splitting them out. Not being nit-picky but where are you seeing helpdesk threads not being answered? (the first page for example, there is only one thread there that I can see thats boards related that doesnt have a response or has not already been resolved)the Admins usually answer whatever helpdesk threads they see pretty promptly (ok, I admit I've gone into one or two "my washing machine is broken" threads and thought, 'I cant write "heldpesk is for boards.ie related queries...." one more time today' and left it for another day but when its a genuine helpdesk question I cant say I've seen the user waiting too long for a response.

DRF threads are picked up by Cmods, sometimes they are tagged by an admin first but usually (not 100% but not too far off) the DRP thread is picked up pretty quickly. Yes , I can see where the advantage would be for a process of movign a thread over to an admin section for admin attention, but they are pretty much already monitored by the admins and we keep track of who is dealing with what and what is coming up. With all threads in one place its easier to review previous threads and there is more transparency(?) in the sense that everything is there for anyone to see, all in one place. in short, its 6 of one and half dozen of another to me, same result just a different path.