Mecca and Medina? Why the Ban on non-Muslims?

Stinicker

I recently travelled via the United Arab Emirates and am really intrigued with the entire Arab world and Islam in general. As Christians in the west we have alot of pre-conceived notions that seem to be totally untrue. I would someday love to return the the Middle East to see what is a geographic wonder and experience their way of life, culture and way of doing things. I would in particular like to visit Saudi Arabia and as a person who is more at home with a camera and exploring churches, museums etc. than lying on a beach, the religious holy sites would be what I'd like to see.

I know I may never go there but I want to know what is the basis for the discrimination against non-Muslims at these sites? Sky News usually seem to have a white western reporter on hand at these places, do Journalists get exceptions?

hivizman

Stinicker wrote: »

I know I may never go there but I want to know what is the basis for the discrimination against non-Muslims at these sites? Sky News usually seem to have a white western reporter on hand at these places, do Journalists get exceptions?

The ban on non-Muslims visiting Makkah and Madinah was discussed a few months ago in the thread Becoming a Muslim.

There is some Qur'anic authority for the ban as it relates to Makkah. Surat at-Tawbah 9:28 states (in part - Sahih International translation):

"O you who have believed, indeed the polytheists are unclean, so let them not approach al-Masjid al-haram after this, their [final] year."

The arabic text uses "mushrikun", translated here as "polytheists", which some scholars consider to apply only to the Arab tribes who had not embraced Islam and still worshipped idols, rather than to the "people of the book" (Jews and Christians), but the more general view is that, in this context, it applies to all non-Muslims. Al-Masjid al-haram is the formal name of the Grand Mosque in Makkah.

In practice, the forbidden area also includes al-Masjid an-Nabawi - the Prophet's Mosque in Madinah - together with the cities of Makkah and Madinah and the Hajj (pilgrimage) sites around Makkah.

The practical reason for the ban is that most visitors to Makkah and Madinah are doing so in connection with either the Hajj pilgrimage or the Umrah pilgrimage, and it is believed that the presence of people purely there for tourist purposes would reduce the sanctity and spirituality of the pilgrims' visits, while adding even more to the pressure of numbers in these holy sites.

Journalists who report from Makkah (this is particularly common during the Hajj) will, I expect, be Muslims. Many Western governments provide consular assistance to their nationals in Makkah at this time by using members of their diplomatic services who happen to be Muslims.

I'd also like to visit the holy cities of Arabia, but the "admission price" is too steep for me.

LondonIrish90

Racism.

They are allowed to continue their archaic, intollerant practices.

The West simply can't do anything that will in any way hinder the way an Islamic person in our culturally Christian region wishes to go about their lives, yet they can banish us from cities.

Freiheit

How do they know if one is a Muslim?.

irishconvert

Mecca and Madina are not tourist destinations, they are places of worship. Their only purpose is for people to go there and worship Allah. Even a Muslim cannot visit those cities without performing the rituals of Umrah.

irishconvert

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Racism.

Don't be so rediculous. Which "race" exactly is not allowed there?

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

They are allowed to continue their archaic, intollerant practices.

With my moderator hat on, any more commends like that and you won't be posting in here again.

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

The West simply can't do anything that will in any way hinder the way an Islamic person in our culturally Christian region wishes to go about their lives, yet they can banish us from cities.

Do you really want to go there?

Stinicker

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Racism.

They are allowed to continue their archaic, intollerant practices.

The West simply can't do anything that will in any way hinder the way an Islamic person in our culturally Christian region wishes to go about their lives, yet they can banish us from cities.

I disagree, its not racism considering Muslims come in all colours, The west could very well persecute Islam and any Religion if it sees fit in the morning, however western society chooses not to do so. I can't see who the "us" they are banishing are unless you mean all non Muslims, because afaik it is not just Christians who are banned but all non Muslims.

I do think it is a bit strange, however I respect their wishes as they are sacred places to people of the faith. I don't understand it or know enough about it to be judgemental. I as a Tourist to the US cannot just go visit Area 51 and in the state of South Australia they have the Woomera Prohibited Area which is one and a half times the size of the island of Ireland, so there are numerous places off limits like this world wide. I have alot more ire and disdain for the Saudi Government who make it very difficult for westerners to enter their country for purposes of Tourism to the parts of the country that are not off limits.

I have found an old Koran in the family bookshelf I got from a Turkish penpal when I was 14, its in English if anyone wants to give tips on what to read up about the subject in the Koran.

ChristopherUno

I have an interesting anecdote on this subject, might not be any truth in it but interesting to consider nonetheless (and I can't think of any reason why he'd lie anyway). My friend is Filipino but was born and lived a lot of his early life in Saudi Arabia, where his dad was a mechanic. Him and some other non-Muslims (well, his dad was originally Muslim but converted cos his mam refused to marry him, she's Catholic!) had to go to Mecca to carry out some sort of repairs on a power plant or something. And to allow non-Muslims to enter, the town council or whatever equivalent actually voted to temporarily redraw the borders of the city to allow a path to the power plant that was, technically, not in the city itself.

As I said, I really can't verify this, his dad speaks about five words of English and he was only a kid at the time and surely they could've just found Muslim mechanics to do it etc, but regardless it's an interesting story and coming from someone who grew up there it shows some of the slightly crazy lengths people at least believe they're willing to go to to enforce the law. Which, incidentally, I actually quite like. Although I love nothing more as a tourist than wandering ancient and beautiful churches, temples or whatever regardless of their religious alliance, I think more power to them retaining their most sacred places for the purposes of worship alone. To call it racism made me laugh, thanks LondonIrish!

hivizman

The official title of King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia is Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques (Arabic: خادم الحرمين الشريفين khādim al-haramayn al-sharīfayn), a title originally used by the Ayyubid and Mamluk sultans of Egypt when they controlled the Hejaz and then by the Ottoman sultans.

So an attempt by a non-Muslim to "violate" the sanctity of Makkah and Madinah runs the risk of being regarded as an insult to the ruler of Saudi Arabia and hence much more serious than simply upsetting the religious beliefs of Muslims.

oceanclub

On a slight tangent, some interesting non-Muslim characters have managed to get to Mecca; the most famous probably being the Irish-descended explorer Richard Francis Burton, who even had himself circumcised as a disguise (it helped that he was also fluent in Arabic, but the first recorded person was supposedly Ludovico di Varthema in 1503.

P.

hivizman

oceanclub wrote: »

On a slight tangent, some interesting non-Muslim characters have managed to get to Mecca; the most famous probably being the Irish-descended explorer Richard Francis Burton, who even had himself circumcised as a disguise (it helped that he was also fluent in Arabic, but the first recorded person was supposedly Ludovico di Varthema in 1503.

P.

I have Burton's book A Secret Pilgrimage to Mecca and Medina in the Folio Society edition. It's quite a struggle to read because Burton presents himself as a really unpleasant person and the writing style is over-elaborate.

Another 19th century traveller who visited the Holy Places was Johann Ludwig Burckhardt. He spent two years in the Middle East improving his knowledge of Arabic and Islamic law and doctrine, to such a degree that he persuaded Muslim scholars that he was one of them. In later years, people wondered whether Burckhardt had in fact become a Muslim (there were similar questions raised about Burton).

The effort involved in this suggests to me that, if you want to visit Makkah and Madinah that much, you might as well go "all the way" and convert to Islam.

irishconvert

oceanclub wrote: »

On a slight tangent, some interesting non-Muslim characters have managed to get to Mecca; the most famous probably being the Irish-descended explorer Richard Francis Burton, who even had himself circumcised as a disguise (it helped that he was also fluent in Arabic, but the first recorded person was supposedly Ludovico di Varthema in 1503.

P.

If someone really wanted to go, it's not that difficult. Once you have a certificate of conversion from a recognised mosque, the Saudi embaddy will give you a visa.

oceanclub

irishconvert wrote: »

If someone really wanted to go, it's not that difficult. Once you have a certificate of conversion from a recognised mosque, the Saudi embaddy will give you a visa.

Where's the adventure in that?

P.

donaghs

irishconvert wrote: »

Don't be so rediculous. Which "race" exactly is not allowed there?


With my moderator hat on, any more commends like that and you won't be posting in here again.


Do you really want to go there?

What if you wanted to explore the pre-Islamic culture of those places?

irishconvert

donaghs wrote: »

What if you wanted to explore the pre-Islamic culture of those places?

You can't. I think the reasons have already been explained in this thread.

Sefirah

I'm not sure about Mecca and Medina, but there's also a ban on non-Muslims entering the Al-Aqsa mosque- this really doesn't have anything to do with Islam itself, as the ban is enforced by Israeli police in an effort to maintain the status quo and avoid any cause for offense and whatnot. However, it seems such restrictions are pretty easily circumnavigated (for women, at least). I was chatting with a Palestinian shop owner about being disappointed that I couldn't see the inside of the mosque, and he actually gave me the necessary attire (including a face veil) and asked his son to accompany me- it was really sweet, and pretty typical of the hospitality of many people there. It's a really beautiful mosque, and can be appreciated by anyone- well worth checking out.