Social Welfare Fraud

Laminations

petra62 wrote: »

I am a 36 years old romanian women.I live in Ireland from 2 years.After i pay my bills i have 100 euro per week for food and clothes for me and my daughter.she is in 2th class and is one from the best girls in her class.with this 100 euro we live and i say ''GOD THANK YOU!''.In Romania I worked for 200 euro for entire month. i used to buy two carrots,two eggs and one chicken breast for my baby and I ate fried onion with bread.I had to wear a jacket till it had holes sewed an wear again. now I wash toilets,give me as many toilets you want i'll clean.BECAUSE I'M ROMANIAN. I know the life can be worse.

Hi Petra, I don't fully understand your point about cleaning toilets because you are Romanian but can you address Ricey's (or Dan_d's)
generalisation about Romanians. Before you pay bills where does your money come from? Is it from cleaning toilets? Is it the dole? There is no need for you to answer if you do not want to.

EDIT: My read of it is that you work for your money which torpedoes their points somewhat

Ricey1

Hi Petra. It is great that you came to Ireland and found a better life for yourself, the Irish did the same for years
The point being made in this thread is how easy it is for foreigners to come to Ireland and claim social benefits. When the Irish left to go to the US, Australia etc. they went to find work, if they didnt find work then they starved, there was no social support for them.
What you are saying in your story just proves how attractive Ireland is for people in Romania. The problem is we are a small island in serious debt and can not afford to hand out money. Romania has a population of 22 million, Poland has a population of 38 million and Latvia has a population of 2.3 million. When the EU expanded 47% of Latvians left the next day and the majority of them came to Ireland. So now that we are in unimaginable debt, the point I am making is that the social need to better handle the current problem of people entering this country for hand outs and the people here that are taking advantage of the free aid

I was not making a generalisation about Romanians as I work with a few and know how hard they work. I was saying about the Romanian gypsies that came banging at my door with their social letters, one family after another telling me "my father have accident, the social pay for everything". These where different families on different days pre-programmed to say the exact same thing, Ireland is borrowing large amounts of money from Europe to pay for all this and in the end where will it leave this small country

djpbarry

Laminations wrote: »

Dan_d is female. Typical sexist post assuming a poster is male

Yes, I suppose it was.

Laminations wrote: »

It's become an overused and abused term.

Actually, I would say that, increasingly, racism is explained away and apologised for. In my opinion, it is now politically incorrect to point out that a person, or a particular comment, is racist, even if said racism is blatant.

Laminations wrote: »

For your definition the statement 'Generally black people are more prone to sickle cell anemia' is racist.

No, because (presumably) that is a statistically valid, evidence-based conclusion. On the other hand, 'generally black people have AIDS', for example, is not and it would not be unreasonable to consider such a statement racist.

djpbarry

Ricey1 wrote: »

Educated and talented people are leaving Ireland because they thrive to make a better life for themselves...

But surely, if the state is handing out masses of free cash and houses, the numbers leaving should be heavily outweighed by those arriving? So, where do I go to get my free cash/house?

djpbarry

Ricey1 wrote: »

The point being made in this thread is how easy it is for foreigners to come to Ireland and claim social benefits.

No, that's the point you're trying to make. Not very well, I might add.

Ricey1 wrote: »

When the EU expanded 47% of Latvians left the next day and the majority of them came to Ireland.

Bollocks.

Ricey1 wrote: »

I was saying about the Romanian gypsies that came banging at my door with their social letters, one family after another telling me "my father have accident, the social pay for everything"

Funny. Myself and the missus recently rented out our flat in Dublin and we didn't have a single enquiry from a gypsy.

Ricey1

You have a missus? Bet she loves listening to you

Laminations

djpbarry wrote: »

Actually, I would say that, increasingly, racism is explained away and apologised for. In my opinion, it is now politically incorrect to point out that a person, or a particular comment, is racist, even if said racism is blatant.

There is no 'political' about it. It is either correct or incorrect to label someone or their post as racist.

No, because (presumably) that is a statistically valid, evidence-based conclusion.

It is still a generalisation based on race, which qualifies it under your definition as racist

On the other hand, 'generally black people have AIDS', for example, is not and it would not be unreasonable to consider such a statement racist.

I'd consider such a statement merely as ignorant unless there was malice in how and why the inaccurate statement was being put forth.

dan_d

flatulence wrote: »

There's no need to label all of the unemployed as this type of scum, not all of them have this mentality, there are actually some decent people on the dole you know :rolleyes:

why not give them tasks that would be given to them and collect their dole?. Not every person on the dole is looking to "abuse the system" like you say, there are some decent people on the dole who would happily sweep the streets/pick up shit etc. And keep the streets clean for me and my work colleagues, at least if they are humiliated it makes us all feel they are earning their keep not just receiving free money, unless they are dishonest scroungers, they will agree to work for their dole.

That is an exact copy of a post you had in another thread (possibly in work and biz) where I'm pretty sure you were banned for posting it.....

Anyway, the problem djpbarry is that there is no way that I could pose those questions without sounding racist, but they are genuine questions on my part. I couldn't give 2 curses who gets SW to be honest. I spent the last 5 years working on site with a huge variety of nations - Polish/Lithuanian/Latvian/Hungarian/Estonian/Romanian. Great workers, all of them. I never had any problem with them.

HAVE Nigerians and Romanians contributed to the economy? I don't know. The man in question hadn't. Sure he told us - at the top of his voice. He knew all his rights, but he didn't want to hear about any responsibilities that might go with them....which was that he hadn't filled in some paperwork and he hadn't attended a FAS course that he was supposed to go to. Yet he was well able to come in shouting and roaring, demanding money....the Romanians I have seen in the SW are frequently Roma. I'm relatively certain most of them are not, in fact, contributing.

As far as I'm concerned, if you've paid in, you should be entitled to something. If not, then tough.And that goes for the indigenous Irish too. I would imagine the reason that so many people are emigrating is because they want a better life for themselves and they can see they won't be getting here any time soon.

The reason I posed my questions is because those are questions that need asking. But the minute anyone asks them, people are hopping up and down screaming "racist". Yet in 2 seconds, we'll abuse our own people who are claiming welfare, from a height, pour buckets of scorn on their heads.Even those who are genuinely experiencing hard times and are job hunting..

Interesting, that. By the way, my username is somewhat misleading, so I won't hold that against you;).

djpbarry

Laminations wrote: »

It is still a generalisation based on race, which qualifies it under your definition as racist

No it doesn’t and I have already explained why.

djpbarry

dan_d wrote: »

HAVE Nigerians and Romanians contributed to the economy? I don't know.

You’re kidding, right?

dan_d wrote: »

The man in question hadn't. Sure he told us - at the top of his voice. He knew all his rights, but he didn't want to hear about any responsibilities that might go with them....which was that he hadn't filled in some paperwork and he hadn't attended a FAS course that he was supposed to go to. Yet he was well able to come in shouting and roaring, demanding money

So what? I could head to my nearest SW office and start shouting and roaring, demanding money – what will that prove?

dan_d wrote: »

...the Romanians I have seen in the SW are frequently Roma.

How do you know they’re Romanian?

dan_d wrote: »

The reason I posed my questions is because those are questions that need asking.

Why do they need asking? Why do you assume that Nigerians and Romanians are not entitled to any benefits? Furthermore, why are you assuming that these individuals that you see in SW offices are Nigerian and Romanian?

dan_d

Why shouldn't I ask these questions? They're fairly genuine. How can people who have not contributed anything to the tax system be entitled to SW benefits?

The reason I focused on those 2 countries is that they are not part of the EU. I am aware that, under EU laws, other EU citizens are entitled to claim SW benefit in our country. But these 2 countries aren't. So how does that work?

The guy in question said he came here from Nigeria. The women in question were dressed as Roma and said they were Romanian - well, the younger of the 2, who was translating for the older woman did - the question being over their habitual residence forms.

I don't know if Nigerians and Roma have contributed to the economy. Last I heard, many immigrants from countries such as Nigeria were complaining because their Visas would not allow them to take up work. The Roma, in general, are not known to work.

The shouting and roaring proved that this individual felt he was entitled to a number of things, but he wasn't prepared to do what was required, same as everyone else, to get them. The reason the shouting and roaring came to the attention of everybody in that office is because the individual before him had been an Irish guy who behaved in somewhat the same manner and basically demanded his money, while telling the unfortunate person behind the hatch that he couldn't remember what days he'd worked in previous weeks, she'd have to just take it from him that he did, and give him his money. That SW officer was having a bad run of it that morning.

I'd appreciate it if you'd stop attacking me, as I'm actually trying to have a reasoned debate here. The original question was SW fraud. My original answers to that was firstly, how are people who have not contributed to the system entitled to payments (and that applies to both Irish and foreign people, which I specified in my second post) and who looks into that.And the second question was would the return on cracking down on fraud outweigh the huge amount of money that would be needed to set up the appropriate systems in the SW to deal with it. These posts could be going on forever, made more difficult by the fact that they're being had through a computer screen.I am genuinely not a racist individual. No matter what I say here is probably going to be construed as racist by yourself, due to the nature of this communication. I can see that our SW system is extremely generous, to a fault, and of late months I've been spending a lot of time in their offices, therefore these are things I wonder about (while waiting for an hour or so in the queue).

Maybe we should just let the thread get on with it.

djpbarry

dan_d wrote: »

How can people who have not contributed anything to the tax system be entitled to SW benefits?

Generally speaking, they’re not.

dan_d wrote: »

The reason I focused on those 2 countries is that they are not part of the EU.

Romania is part of the EU.

dan_d wrote: »

I am aware that, under EU laws, other EU citizens are entitled to claim SW benefit in our country. But these 2 countries aren't. So how does that work?

Romanian and Nigerian nationals (or anyone else for that matter) who have worked in Ireland for more than 2 years will be entitled to some benefits, such as Jobseekers Benefit.

dan_d wrote: »

I don't know if Nigerians and Roma have contributed to the economy. Last I heard, many immigrants from countries such as Nigeria were complaining because their Visas would not allow them to take up work.

That doesn’t make any sense – what kind of visa (aside from a tourist visa) does not allow the bearer to work? I think you’re thinking of asylum seekers, who are not permitted to work.

dan_d wrote: »

The Roma, in general, are not known to work.

I don’t think I want to go down that road.

dan_d wrote: »

I'd appreciate it if you'd stop attacking me...

I’m not attacking you, I’m questioning your questions.

Head The Wall

djpbarry wrote: »

Generally speaking, they’re not.

Rubbish, anybody can sign on after school and never work, they can then collect E10 less of an OAP than people who have contributed all their lives.

Both these scenarios can and do happen, I can only presume that you have the rosiest pair of glasses ever

djpbarry

Head The Wall wrote: »

Rubbish, anybody can sign on after school and never work...

They can claim Jobseekers Allowance because they satisfy the habitual residency requirement. A recently-arrived immigrant cannot.

n97 mini

djpbarry wrote: »

Generalisations based on nationality and/or race qualify as racist in my book. Split hairs all you want.
Why? Has “racist” become politically incorrect?

Is it necessary for me to point out that I did not label dan_d a racist, I labelled his post racist?

The irony about your post is that you made reference to skin colour whereas the original poster you took to task did not. I think you may need to be a bit more careful when playing the racist card.

djpbarry

n97 mini wrote: »

The irony about your post is that you made reference to skin colour whereas the original poster you took to task did not.

Ah, so a statement must make explicit reference to appearance, rather than nationality, before it may be construed as racist/xenophobic/discriminatory? I see.

Superdry06

What is the outcome in this shocking scenario..

A college student aged 19 is receiving a VEC grant for college which pays for the fees and gives an allowance every month which works out at e60 a week roughly. The student's mother receives an allowance for being a single parent with a dependent child in full time education.

All seems fine so far until.. The single mother doesn't give a penny to her child by the way of money for day to day needs, doesn't put food on the table, no money given for cloths etc. The child goes to relatives and begs for money to get her by. When relations got out of hand she got the VEC Grant cut on the child and as a result the college student cannot continue with college.

What can the student do? What are her entitlements?

Dr Galen

Old thread is old

Cheers

DrG