'Defragmenting' problem - Help :-/

whirlpool

Hey,

I'm on Windows XP. I need to defragment my hard drive. I have 20% free space. I have defragmented different computers plenty of times before.

Last night, I attempted to defrag my hard drive. The initial 'analysis' said "You should defragment your drive."

It ended after about eight minutes (this is what first set alarm bells off for me) and said something like "some files couldn't be degragmented. View Report for more details."

Following this, I performed another 'analysis,' which again said "You should defrag." So I did... but the same thing happened again. Another analysis again said "You should defrag."

I restarted my laptop and tried defragging again, but the exact same thing happened. This is what the Defrag window looks like at the beginning of the process AND following three or four attempts to defrag: https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/301459/154043.JPG.

The report is as follows:

Volume [C:]
Volume size = 64.41 GB
Cluster size = 4 KB
Used space = 51.07 GB
Free space = 13.34 GB
Percent free space = 20 %

Volume fragmentation
Total fragmentation = 27 %
File fragmentation = 51 %
Free space fragmentation = 3 %

File fragmentation
Total files = 87,745
Average file size = 716 KB
Total fragmented files = 4,436
Total excess fragments = 163,144
Average fragments per file = 2.85

Pagefile fragmentation
Pagefile size = 1.31 GB
Total fragments = 17,944

Folder fragmentation
Total folders = 10,239
Fragmented folders = 1
Excess folder fragments = 1

Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation
Total MFT size = 112 MB
MFT record count = 99,379
Percent MFT in use = 86 %
Total MFT fragments = 18



So I downloaded a program called "Smart Defrag 2" which is the most popular defrag program over at Cnet Downloads. I tried defragging with this but it seems the same thing is happening. This is a screengrab of the analysis carried out by Smart Defrag: https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/301459/154042.jpg

In that analysis, the following list indicates what the different colours mean:
"FRAGMENTED"
"FREQUENTLY USED"
"RARELY USED"
"MFT"
"UNMOVEABLE"
"FREE SPACE"




Basically, it appears the defragmentation is just not taking place and I don't know why. Can anyone help?

Thanks.

bonzodog2

On your screenshot, I can't see anything corresponding to free space (grey), if I'm reading it right, inspite of the reported 20% freespace. Do you have an external drive to move some big files/folders to, to make a bit of room ? I just use the standard XP defrag, and sometimes found it took a few runs to get to the stage of 'not worth doing'

CreepingDeath

Try turning off the Windows page file / virtual memory, then reboot and retry the defrag.

It's likely that the windows page file is heavily fragmented across your disk, and can't be moved during the defrag.

After a full defrag, turn the windows virtual memory on again.
I always set it myself, and set the initial and maximum size to the same figure, eg. 4024 & 4024. (Mbs)
That stops fragmentation in the page file.

whirlpool

bonzodog2 wrote: »

On your screenshot, I can't see anything corresponding to free space (grey), if I'm reading it right, inspite of the reported 20% freespace.

Hey,

I know what you mean. However, the grey spaces are there in the analysis but when I took the screengrab and pasted it into Paint, the bottom few rows of the analysis (which contained the free space) disappeared from the image for some reason :-/

But the free space is definitely there.

whirlpool

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Try turning off the Windows page file / virtual memory, then reboot and retry the defrag.

Thanks,

How do I do that?

bonzodog2

MyComputer->Properties->Advanced tab, 1st Settings button->Advanced tab->Change button->No paging file (radio button)

If you use Hibernation I'd turn that off too (for the defrag), in CP->PowerProperties; it uses as much disk as you have of RAM.

cookie1977

I like defraggler. It can be set to defrag fragmented files or the entire hard drive.
www.defraggler.com

biko

You probably don't need it but run a chkdisk too.
http://www.ehow.com/how_2052292_run-chkdsk-f-windows-xp.html You prob don't need step 10, just set it to run after reboot, and then reboot as usual.

Razzuh

If files can't be defragmented it's probably because they're too large. Getting rid of the page file temporarily is good advice. You could also turn off system restore (which deletes all system restore points) to free up some space (as long as you're confident you don't need them). I think smartDefrag (http://download.cnet.com/Smart-Defrag/3000-2094_4-10759533.html is the best personally (it's free). It will give you a list of all the files that couldn't be defragged when it's finished, and the reason why for each.

whirlpool

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Try turning off the Windows page file / virtual memory, then reboot and retry the defrag.

Thank you for this advice! I did just that, and after six hours it's 27% defragmented.... which sounds more like it :cool:


Also, do any of you notice a significant speed difference when you defrag your heavily-fragmented drive?... because that's really what I'm hoping the result of this will be...

CreepingDeath

whirlpool wrote: »

Thank you for this advice! I did just that, and after six hours it's 27% defragmented.... which sounds more like it :cool:


Also, do any of you notice a significant speed difference when you defrag your heavily-fragmented drive?... because that's really what I'm hoping the result of this will be...

You're very welcome.

Yep, you should see a noticeable difference for sure.
The page file sounds like it was badly fragmented across your drive.

When the defrag finished, manually set the size of your virtual memory page file to 1.5 times the size of your RAM.
So if you've 4Gb of RAM, set your page size to 6Gb for both "Initial size" and "Maximum Size". That should help avoid it becoming fragmented.

Also, there's a nice freeware utility called CCleaner which will clean up the windows registry a bit for you. Worth doing.

gnolan

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Also, there's a nice freeware utility called CCleaner which will clean up the windows registry a bit for you. Worth doing.

I have heard differing opinions regarding CCleaner. I have it myself and use it for temporary file cleanup but not for the registry cleaner.

Is it actually safe to use these registry cleaners? Do they not have the potential to seriously screw up your OS?

redox

That's quite a lot of fragmentation; the system file MFT is in 18 fragments which can cause a problem since neither the XP defragger nor the free utilities can defrag the MFT. I'd suggest you download a trial version of a good commercial auto defrag utility, install it and let it run in the background. It will clear up almost all the file fragmentation as well as the MFT. A boot-time defrag will take care of the rest (page file, hibernation etc). These trial versions work for a month, and you'll need just a couple of hours or thereabouts for your system, so there should be plenty of time.

And run disk cleanup before the defrag to clear out some space.

whirlpool

Hey hey,

Firstly, thanks for all the posts so far. I've read them all. First things first though, the defrag has now finished. I used Defraggler. I then did an analysis using the standard Windows Defrag program, and this is the report it gave me:


Volume [C:]
Volume size = 64.41 GB
Cluster size = 4 KB
Used space = 53.19 GB
Free space = 11.22 GB
Percent free space = 17 %

Volume fragmentation
Total fragmentation = 2 %
File fragmentation = 5 %
Free space fragmentation = 0 %

File fragmentation
Total files = 88,758
Average file size = 736 KB
Total fragmented files = 197
Total excess fragments = 19,135
Average fragments per file = 1.21

Pagefile fragmentation
Pagefile size = 1.31 GB
Total fragments = 17,944

Folder fragmentation
Total folders = 10,244
Fragmented folders = 5
Excess folder fragments = 35

Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation
Total MFT size = 112 MB
MFT record count = 100,405
Percent MFT in use = 87 %
Total MFT fragments = 12



Has there been a significant improvement, do you think?

Razzuh

That looks ok. 5% file fragmentation isn't terrible.

How much RAM do you have? Guessing by the size of your hard drive it's possible that you might only have 1GB, which is very little these days. If so, I'd suggest you look at upgrading to 2GB if you want to get a while longer out of that computer. An extra gb shouldn't cost you much. I upgraded myself from 1 to 2 a few months ago (about €25 delivered to my door I think).

You'll notice a huge improvement in speed because not having enough RAM puts a lot of stress on your hard drive and will increase fragmentation, which is maybe why your drive was so fragmented. That's the pagefile in case you don't know, it's drive space windows uses to simulate RAM when it runs out of the good stuff (not entirely true, but in general).

You can check how much ram you use by looking at the performance section of task manager (or download process explorer (free), which is much better).

whirlpool

Razzuh wrote: »

That looks ok. 5% file fragmentation isn't terrible.

How much RAM do you have? Guessing by the size of your hard drive it's possible that you might only have 1GB, which is very little these days. If so, I'd suggest you look at upgrading to 2GB if you want to get a while longer out of that computer. An extra gb shouldn't cost you much. I upgraded myself from 1 to 2 a few months ago (about €25 delivered to my door I think).

You'll notice a huge improvement in speed because not having enough RAM puts a lot of stress on your hard drive and will increase fragmentation, which is maybe why your drive was so fragmented. That's the pagefile in case you don't know, it's drive space windows uses to simulate RAM when it runs out of the good stuff (not entirely true, but in general).

You can check how much ram you use by looking at the performance section of task manager (or download process explorer (free), which is much better).

Thanks for all that info.

I am running XP on a 2007 Dell Inspiron 1501 laptop. It has 896mb RAM and a 1.6Ghz processor.

I find XP to be perfect for what I need, but the laptop can't really handle more than three programs being open - that's when it noticeably starts to stall etc...

The next computer I buy will be a netbook with long battery life and plenty of memory. But until I can afford one I am stuck with this. It is fine but can be frustrating. Upgrading it as cheaply as possible (but with good-quality products) is really what I want to do.

Razzuh

XP is fine, your spec is too low to move to windows 7 anyway.

The RAM is definitely the root of all your problems, that's why things start to stall as you open more applications. Your hard drive is too busy being used as ram to keep up with requests for normal files, which is what it's meant for. XP will take a couple of hundred MBs of RAM, and the latest versions of web browsers like to take up 300 to 1GB, so you can see how quickly you're running out right there. You'll notice a huge improvement if you upgrade to 2GB.

I shopped around for RAM a couple of months ago and found crucial (www.crucial.com/eu to be the best value for delivery to Ireland. They have a great system that selects the RAM compatible with your laptop for you, just select the right options on the home page.

One thing you have to check before you order is how many memory slots you have free. Download speccy (http://download.cnet.com/Speccy/3000-2094_4-75181811.html) and open it up. Look under the 'ram' section and at the top it should have a section on 'memory slots' with the number of used and free slots. Your laptop will have two slots. The max RAM your laptop will accept is 2GB.

Hopefully, you will have 1 slot free, which means that at the moment you have 1x1GB card. That means you only need to buy 1 1GB card to get to the 2GB.
If you're unlucky, you have 2x512MB cards, which means you'll need to dump thems both and buy 2 1GB cards to get to the 2GB max.

I just had a look at the price and a 1GB card is only €15 + €5 p&p. Well worth it I'd say. You can install it yourself easily when you get it, just follow the directions.

whirlpool

@ Razzuh:

Wow! Excellent post. Thanks so much. I'm going to check out Crucial.com now.

Thanks again.

Maj Malfunction

Your defrag results are better.


Pagefile fragmentation
Pagefile size = 1.31 GB
Total fragments = 17,944 <- :cool:

There is the issue. You might be able to resolve the issue by deleting the page file as previously advised and by setting a custom size page file.

To do this go to Control Panel > System from System Properties > Advanced > Performance > Settings > Advanced > Virtual memory > Change > Custom Size

Rule of thumb usually set this to twice the amount of physical ram as the minimum and 4 times for the maximum.

I use min 2046Mb and 4092Mb max on my own machine (its a little old these days) and it works fine.

TBH defragging won't give you a massive speed boost. As an side I don't know why Microsoft didn't design a file system that was not susceptible to fragmentation.

Razzuh

Maj Malfunction wrote: »

As an side I don't know why Microsoft didn't design a file system that was not susceptible to fragmentation.

I don't think that's possible without hugely reducing performance when writing to disk. It makes more sense to fragment when necessary for speed (when someone is using the computer) and then defragment when the computer is not in use. I hear tell that Windows 7 defragments automatically when the computer is left to idle.

redox

Windows defrag runs as a scheduled defrag at 1:00 AM on Wednesdays, IIRC.

As for avoiding fragmentation yeah that would be awesome if Windows had something like that built-in. I believe some of the linux file systems have that feature or something like it.

For Windows, there are a few commercial auto defrag utilities (not free) that run in the background and automatically prevent most new file writes from causing fragmentation. However, I have no idea about the technical details of how this is accomplished.

Bill R TechSpec

It looks like you have gotten some good advice here.

I would definitely recommend getting more RAM as less than 1 GB is just not enough anymore. Since you list 896 MB the available slots are probably full, so you will need to get two 1 GB sticks (the Dell™ Inspiron™ 1501 has 2 slots per the user manual -- if needed you can download a free copy of the manual which shows you how to replace the RAM here:

http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/ins1501/en/om_en/pdf/HN926A00.pdf )

As for the defrag, I recommend you look into a third party defrag solution as these will address the Page File, MFT and other system files as well as automatically keep your disk in good shape (this will improve system performance even more).

Here is a "Top 10 Reviews" study that compared the best defrag programs and rated them according to their performance:

http://disk-defragmenter-software-review.toptenreviews.com/

Personally, I use the Gold Medal winner, Diskeeper, as it will not only defrag your system, it also prevents fragmentation (read the study -- you can click on the picture of each program for details on its features and performance).

Good luck to you!

Bill R TechSpec

redox wrote: »

As for avoiding fragmentation yeah that would be awesome if Windows had something like that built-in.... there are a few commercial auto defrag utilities (not free) that run in the background and automatically prevent most new file writes from causing fragmentation. However, I have no idea about the technical details of how this is accomplished.

You're right -- fragmentation prevention is now available -- although according to a recent Top 10 review, only one third party defrag program has this capability (see the last sentence of the 1st paragraph of the review):

http://disk-defragmenter-software-review.toptenreviews.com/diskeeper-professional-review.html

As for the technical details of how this is accomplished, here is a White Paper you may find interesting:

http://www.diskeeper.com/blog/file.axd?file=2009%2f11%2fInside+Diskeeper+2010+with+IntelliWrite.pdf