Disputing an infraction in Donegal

jimmycrackcorm

I received an infraction by muffler for this post: [ quote=jimmycrackcorm ]I'd welcome the change based on a change of Mods. Like the previous government - change is good. [/quote] on a thread about changes in the Donegal forum. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=7148264


My post was pretty benign to say the least and can hardly be out of context when the OP suggested that the mods would be changing

The bad (maybe good) news is that myself and homer_simpson may well be made redundant

I didn't realise this was an april fools day posting, I think that the forum would get a bit of revitalisation with the changes suggested. As it is, It is a bit like a stranger going into a pub in Churchill where the regulars eye you up with suspicion.

However I want to appeal the infraction on the grounds that the awarding was not based on the post itself but motivated by unrelated bias and cannot be justified as appropriate action for the post.

As well as the infraction notice I received an other PM from Muffler:

I told you in the past that I was fed up with your child like, silly sniping comments. If you have a beef with me then try to be a bit more mature and do something about it but leave it off the forum.

I appealed to Muffler in accordance with the DRG to withdraw the infraction as there was no explicit criticism of him and that it was an over-sensitive repsonse. His reply included

You didnt clarify your post at all but you sure made a huge attempt to change the message though. I would have thought that you were big enough to stand over your comments. There is nothing personal involved from my end but you are persistent with your comments regarding me

If I haven't been posting there for 18 months then I hardly see how the conclusion can be reached that I'm persisently making comments about him nor can it be inferred from my post that there was any criticism of Muffler specifically. His comments appear to show that the infraction was driven by some sort of historic grudge; they demonstrate adverse bias and I say this infraction is invalid on that basis.

Dub13

It would seem their is a back story to this,so I will open it up to muffler so I can get some more info.

jimmycrackcorm

Although this infraction has expired, I still think that Muffler cannot justify the rationale for it. I don't even know why seems to have such a grudge as he's never explained it other than a vague comment about me being childish and sniping.

I would ask that this infraction be stricken even if it is out of date.

Dub13

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Although this infraction has expired, I still think that Muffler cannot justify the rationale for it. I don't even know why seems to have such a grudge as he's never explained it other than a vague comment about me being childish and sniping.

I would ask that this infraction be stricken even if it is out of date.

Hi,

Sorry this is my fault I meant to drop[p him a PM about this tread but it slipped my mind as I was replying on the phone.He may not even be aware of this thread.I will drop him a PM now.

muffler

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry at this thread. jimmycrackcorm has made some serious allegations here and just to recap on what he has said:

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

but motivated by unrelated bias

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

infraction was driven by some sort of historic grudge; they demonstrate adverse bias

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I don't even know why seems to have such a grudge

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. You have never been treated any differently to anyone else on the Donegal forum but if this is the basis on foot of which you have formulated your appeal then I will have to ask you to show proof here please.

Just for the record I can confirm that the same moderation would have been carried out regardless of who posted the comment.

Your comment is there on the thread for all to see and the infraction was more than justified and I can categorically deny any bias on my part but I look forward to seeing what you offer up in an attempt to substantiate the ludicrous claims.

jimmycrackcorm

muffler wrote: »

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. You have never been treated any differently to anyone else on the Donegal forum but if this is the basis on foot of which you have formulated your appeal then I will have to ask you to show proof here please.


Your comment is there on the thread for all to see and the infraction was more than justified and I can categorically deny any bias on my part but I look forward to seeing what you offer up in an attempt to substantiate the ludicrous claims.

This is not correct.
My post about welcoming a change in moderation was totally in context given that your own OP in the thread and following posts specifically discuss a change in moderation. My post was not critical in any way.

However along with the infraction you sent me a pm at the same time stating:
"I told you in the past that I was fed up with your child like, silly sniping comments. If you have a beef with me then try to be a bit more mature and do something about it but leave it off the forum.". Is this not the bias for the infraction?

Your pm seems to suggest that you have given the infraction based on a perception of having a "Beef" with you. I cannot see how you can draw this conclusion from one post in 18 months ( it's not the only forum I would post in irregularly). You also posted in the thread that I was "back to troll again" - when did I troll previously?

Just for the record I can confirm that the same moderation would have been carried out regardless of who posted the comment.

Having been a member for almost 8 years and with 5900 posts, I hardly think that I can be classified as a "troll" and posting in a "child-like" manner. No other moderator would or has suggested this to me for any of these thousands of posts so I don't know what the basis of your confirmation is. You say you aren't treating me any different than any other poster - perhaps you are sending similar pms to other posters so I don't know about the equality but I can say that you are treating me differently than any other moderators.

In the light of your pm comments I consider the infraction to be correctly applied but also motivated by a perception that I have a "beef" with you when there is absolutely no suggestion anywhere in any posts or pms between us that this is so.

muffler

Perhaps I should explain the PM as it may not have been exactly clear. You posted a comment in an April fools thread that could only be described as trolling and having a swipe at the Donegal forum mods with your first post in 18 months and you got an infraction for it. The message contained in the infraction was clear and to the point.

However I felt that such a comment merited a response, off thread, and I sent you the following PM:

Hi,

If you have issues with the moderation of the Donegal forum then please make a complaint to a Cmod but do not post about this again on any thread in the Donegal forum.

I told you in the past that I was fed up with your child like, silly sniping comments. If you have a beef with me then try to be a bit more mature and do something about it but leave it off the forum.

Regards

muffler

You were quite explicit with your comment regarding the forum moderators and as I did not want to derail the thread by continuing any debate on this matter in public I sent the PM and clearly told you that you if you had issues with the moderation then go and do something about it by making a complaint to a Cmod (who would be the first port of call in these situations) but keep it off the thread/forum.



Your last post previous to that in the forum was over 18 months ago and this is what you said

do you think one of the donegal forum mods is responsible? After all they are so ultra conservative that they are known as the burmah taliban.

Seeing as I was the only mod of the forum at that time and bearing in mind that homer_simpson has only been modding for a few moths its fairl safe to say that 2 consecutive posts that contain comments directed at mods had to be for my benefit.

Now is it too difficult to understand why I PM'd you and asked you to to make a complaint about the moderation rather than putting up comments like the above?

Now that I have explained the content of the PM can you now offer up evidence to back up your claims that I was in some way bias in giving you an infraction.

jimmycrackcorm

Muffler, you are again arguing my case for me in that you are biasing your decision on a previous post of 18 months ago. I had pm'd you at that time that it was a joke and I hadn't intended any offence hence the reference to the "Burmah" area of Letterkenny - at that time there was a lot of enjoyable banter going on.

Given that homer_simpson was not a mod at that time then he would not have interpreted this post the same way as you, hence your confirmation that the moderation would have been carried out regardless is not correct as your judgment is affected by reference to a very old post. Double Jepordy and all that. Given the timeline, no-one else could possibly interpret my post the same way you did.

You were quite explicit with your comment regarding the forum moderators

You were quite explicit in saying that the moderators were going to be changed - how is anyone to interpret what is permissible to respond to in this context? I thought it was a completely benign comment to make in this regard, I couldn't anticipate that you or anyone else anyone would be holding a grudge dating back 18 months... Again - is this not bias seeing as the other moderator could not possibly have the same view?

Also it was absolutely not clear at the time that this was an April fools joke - there was even a link to a moderator forum thread.

How can such an infraction be warranted then:

* My response was in context; You, yourself mentioned moderator changes. - how is someone supposed to reason what is an allowable response.
* You took the post personally when there was no implied criticism nor could anyone else imply criticism from it.
* Your moderation was skewed on the basis of a very old post and not the context and content of this.

if you had issues with the moderation then go and do something about it by making a complaint to a Cmod

Finally, I don't know why you are being so defensive as to allude this:

if you had issues with the moderation then go and do something about it by making a complaint to a Cmod

I don't have issues with the moderation to complain about - I simply would welcome the forum freshened with new moderators to give it new direction - I enjoyed it immensely when there was a local banter going on. Without that it has lost its sheen and sense of belonging a community for me.

muffler

I had pm'd you at that time that it was a joke

Just to point out that no PM was ever received.


I have spent way too much time trying to address the unsubstantiated claims made by jimmycrackcorm. Accordingly I have nothing more to add as I have addressed every issue raised here but have yet to see any proof of bias being shown to sustain the infraction appeal.



Over to Dub13. I'd be obliged if you would read the full thread in question and make note of the fact that this was jimmycrackcorm's first post since he got infracted and banned for his comments here. The only thing you need to decide now was the context in which the comment below was posted.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I'd welcome the change based on a change of Mods. Like the previous government - change is good.

Was it an innocent comment or was it posted to troll and have a pop at the mods.

Thats it.

jimmycrackcorm

muffler wrote: »

Just to point out that no PM was ever received.

For the record It's still present in my out box sent on 08-08-2009 22:28 - so it still exists.

I'm happy too for dub13 to make a decision now on the context of my post.

Dub13

I have had a read over everything and I think the infraction was merited,I think muffler was trying to stop the thread from going down a particular road and unfortunately jimmy not long after your post the thread had to be closed.

If you have a previous history attacking or hitting out at the mods on a forum they are well within there rights to try and bring a stop to it on the forums as we have a dispute process and should not be taken threads off topic.

A ban would have been a step to far but all you got was a infraction which are just a little nudge to say you have stepped over the line.