The Corrib Tape

goldie fish

Terrontress wrote: »

So, can you search a female prisoner in a cell?

Would you take a first interview from a rape or child abuse victim?

Obviously I defer to your better knowledge but I would be surprised if there was not some consideration given to an officer's gender when dealing with females.

Do you subscribe to the notion above that a female, when female officers are present, who requests to be dealt with by females is wrong to do so?

Men search men, women search women.
The rest of the job is the same for both genders. The training is identical. There are female gardai who are useless with children and would scare the ****e out of a child in an interview situation.
You realise of course that women can also commit rape?

MagicSean

Discodog wrote: »

I listened to the "tape" & read the transcripts. To me there is little doubt of what was said or implied. It is quite possible that, in the near future, a Guard will be interviewing an alleged assault or rape victim. They will be doing all they can to treat the victim with sympathy & understanding. The actions of the officers on the tape seriously prejudice this process. They undermine confidence in the Gardai. What will the officer say - "we are not all the same ?"

And in your listening to the tape did you hear the accusations she made at the start? Did you notice the convenient drop in volume before they started talking about her? What exactly do you think is implied?

Discodog wrote: »

There is every possibility that their actions will put people off reporting rape & thereby allowing an offender to stay free to re-offend. It is disappointing that none of the officers sought to admonish or disassociate themselves from the remarks.

They are not allowed speak to the press.

Discodog wrote: »

The "private" lives & comments of Gardai are relevant. Many years ago a friend of mine married a Police Officer in England. At the reception I was asked what I wanted to drink & I said Coke, as I was driving. Another officer came over & joked "Ah you are with friends now" & gave me his card - to give to anyone who stopped me on the way home.

How does this story relate to the Gardaí or the taped conversation?

Discodog

k_mac wrote: »

And in your listening to the tape did you hear the accusations she made at the start? Did you notice the convenient drop in volume before they started talking about her? What exactly do you think is implied?

What she said is totally irrelevant. A Guard has to be above provocation. It is implied that the officers consider rape to be a topic worthy of jokes.

k_mac wrote: »

They are not allowed speak to the press.

Who said anything about the press ?. Why can't you hear at least one officer objecting on the tape ?.

k_mac wrote: »

How does this story relate to the Gardaí or the taped conversation?

Because it illustrates the dangers of any officers who blindly stick up for their mates.

goldie fish wrote: »

Men search men, women search women.
The rest of the job is the same for both genders. The training is identical. There are female gardai who are useless with children and would scare the ****e out of a child in an interview situation.
You realise of course that women can also commit rape?

Any woman, who is aware of this incident, may well only agree to be interviewed in the presence of a female officer. That is why all Gardai should abhor it because it taints them all with the same brush.

Any Garda who "would scare the **** out of a child" has no place in the force. Gardai have to deal with children on a daily basis. You cannot be selective as to who are child friendly or not.

goldie fish

Discodog wrote: »

Any Garda who "would scare the **** out of a child" has no place in the force. Gardai have to deal with children on a daily basis. You cannot be selective as to who are child friendly or not.

It isn't a creche.

Discodog

goldie fish wrote: »

It isn't a creche.

Actually it often is. Guards have to deal with lost children, the children of those arrested, abused children, they even go to schools. The Guards promote their child friendly image as they should. We want our children to grow up respecting the Guards & to not feel any fear in approaching a Guard.

I believe that we have lots of applicants who want to be Guards so we can afford to choose the best.

Sempai

Discodog wrote: »

Actually it often is. Guards have to deal with lost children, the children of those arrested, abused children, they even go to schools. The Guards promote their child friendly image as they should. We want our children to grow up respecting the Guards & to not feel any fear in approaching a Guard.

I believe that we have lots of applicants who want to be Guards so we can afford to choose the best.

most kids are brought up being afraid of Gardai as parents usually threaten them by saying that they'll call they Gardai if they don't behave! but other kids have no problem with chatting to a Garda.

goldie fish

Discodog wrote: »

Actually it often is. Guards have to deal with lost children, the children of those arrested, abused children, they even go to schools. The Guards promote their child friendly image as they should. We want our children to grow up respecting the Guards & to not feel any fear in approaching a Guard.

I believe that we have lots of applicants who want to be Guards so we can afford to choose the best.

Are you a member of AGS or have you formed this view by watching "Mattie"?

Shield

Perfect example of a strawman argument.

You said one thing, then when you were challenged on it, you switched to something else which is unrelated to your statement as if to suggest it's what you said in the first place.

You said:

Terrontress wrote: »

One of the roles of female police officers throughout Europe is to provide a level of comfort to female suspects, victims and witnesses.

...which is all but saying that these roles are not, or cannot be provided by male police officers. When challenged, you switched to:

Terrontress wrote: »

So, can you search a female prisoner in a cell?

...which has nothing to do with your original statement

Terrontress wrote: »

Would you take a first interview from a rape or child abuse victim?

Yes, of course. That's my job, but again, this has nothing to do with your original statement

Terrontress wrote: »

Do you subscribe to the notion above that a female, when female officers are present, who requests to be dealt with by females is wrong to do so?

...again, this has nothing to do with your original statement, but as mentioned previously, males search males, and females search females. It's been that way for decades.

Nothing in your response to my comments adds any substance to your original statement of: "One of the roles of female police officers throughout Europe is to provide a level of comfort to female suspects, victims and witnesses."

There would be outrage if I suggested that one of the roles of male police officers is to deal with public order situations, and rightly so. A police officer is a police officer.

Your original comment is borderline or veiled sexism. I can't determine which.

goldie fish

In the early days there was a suggestion that the only reason there was Women in the Gardai was to look after lost children and make tea for the Super.
Terrontress seems to subscribe to this view, rather than accepting that there are no women Gardai, there are just gardai.

maglite

I've had a listen to the tape, I'd have more concern for their ability to choose a ladder than the "rape" comments. It was meant in jest, nothing serious. I'm actually surprisedit got this far.

As for male female thing. Something of interest that was brought up a while back.

For a Female to request a female is seen as reasonable and people seem to have no issue with this.
For a male to request a male its an insult to the female and often not catered for.

goldie fish

Listened to the tape in full also. Interesting how shell to sea dublin is encouraging everyone to skip to 13.30 on the recording for the "crucial segment". This takes the whole conversation out of context. Also, they only provide transcripts for 30 seconds of the total conversation, with is about 40 minutes long.

However I noticed at the start that a member of AGS is also recording the arrest. It would be interesting to see that point of view. Fair is fair, right?

mikom

Snip...wrong thread...... sorry

Terrontress

psni wrote: »

Perfect example of a strawman argument.

You said one thing, then when you were challenged on it, you switched to something else which is unrelated to your statement as if to suggest it's what you said in the first place.

You said:


...which is all but saying that these roles are not, or cannot be provided by male police officers. When challenged, you switched to:


...which has nothing to do with your original statement


Yes, of course. That's my job, but again, this has nothing to do with your original statement


...again, this has nothing to do with your original statement, but as mentioned previously, males search males, and females search females. It's been that way for decades.

Nothing in your response to my comments adds any substance to your original statement of: "One of the roles of female police officers throughout Europe is to provide a level of comfort to female suspects, victims and witnesses."

There would be outrage if I suggested that one of the roles of male police officers is to deal with public order situations, and rightly so. A police officer is a police officer.

Your original comment is borderline or veiled sexism. I can't determine which.

It all depends on your definition of comfort.

Still, your previous assertion "The roles of female and male officers in police forces is exactly the same." (sic) is incorrect if, as others have stated that males may only search males and females may only search females.

Terrontress

goldie fish wrote: »

In the early days there was a suggestion that the only reason there was Women in the Gardai was to look after lost children and make tea for the Super.
Terrontress seems to subscribe to this view, rather than accepting that there are no women Gardai, there are just gardai.

If there are regulations in place which make restrictions based on gender, which nobody is denying, then my point stands.

Your post betrays more about you than about me and I shall thank you not to put words in my mouth. Is misrepresenting people a speciality of yours?

goldie fish

Terrontress wrote: »

If there are regulations in place which make restrictions based on gender, which nobody is denying, then my point stands.

Your post betrays more about you than about me and I shall thank you not to put words in my mouth. Is misrepresenting people a speciality of yours?

I am only learning from you.

Shield

Terrontress wrote: »

It all depends on your definition of comfort.

Still, your previous assertion "The roles of female and male officers in police forces is exactly the same." (sic) is incorrect if, as others have stated that males may only search males and females may only search females.

What is "it" when you say "It all depends on your definition of comfort", and why have you resorted to defining words all of a sudden? Male and female officers who "provide a level of comfort to female suspects, victims and witnesses" are trained to the same standard by the same people - it is not a role exclusive to, or reserved for female officers. It is a role performed by both male and female officers.

Both male and female officers search suspects and prisoners. That's our ROLE. We perform the same ROLE. You're picking at the tiniest of things in a desperate attempt to be right at something AND notably you've completely abandoned your outrageous initial statement of:

One of the roles of female police officers throughout Europe is to provide a level of comfort to female suspects, victims and witnesses.

The best piece of advice I can give you is learn when to back down. You've made an outrageous statement, you can't back it up when challenged, and you've resorted to grasping at straws and picking at words.

If you don't get it now, you never will. You were wrong. Swallow your pride and just accept it.

Terrontress

goldie fish wrote: »

I am only learning from you.

Well, good to see you are learning something. Etc.

Terrontress

psni wrote: »

What is "it" when you say "It all depends on your definition of comfort", and why have you resorted to defining words all of a sudden? Male and female officers who "provide a level of comfort to female suspects, victims and witnesses" are trained to the same standard by the same people - it is not a role exclusive to, or reserved for female officers. It is a role performed by both male and female officers.

Both male and female officers search suspects and prisoners. That's our ROLE. We perform the same ROLE. You're picking at the tiniest of things in a desperate attempt to be right at something AND notably you've completely abandoned your outrageous initial statement of:



The best piece of advice I can give you is learn when to back down. You've made an outrageous statement, you can't back it up when challenged, and you've resorted to grasping at straws and picking at words.

If you don't get it now, you never will. You were wrong. Swallow your pride and just accept it.

If I were to state that the sole role of a female police officer was to do something, anything at all, different to a male colleague then your rants might have some merit.

As it stands, it appears that I have somehow rattled your cage and you have overreacted to an innocuous statement.

goldie fish

Terrontress wrote: »

If I were to state that the sole role of a female police officer was to do something, anything at all, different to a male colleague then your rants might have some merit.

As it stands, it appears that I have somehow rattled your cage and you have overreacted to an innocuous statement.

Now who's putting words in people's mouths.

pah

I can't seem to find the tape anywhere, is this it?

Taggart: I got it! I got it!
Hedley Lamarr: You do?
Taggart: We'll work up a Number 6 on 'em.
Hedley Lamarr: [frowns] "Number 6"? I'm afraid I'm not familiar with that one.
Taggart: Well, that's where we go a-ridin' into town, a-whompin' and a-whumpin' every livin' thing that moves within an inch of its life. Except the women folks, of course.
Hedley Lamarr: You spare the women?
Taggart: Naw, we rape the shlt out of them at the Number Six Dance later on.
Hedley Lamarr: Marvelous!

angelfire9

The Irish Daily mail has seemingly (according to thejournal.ie) published the names and photos of the Gardai involved

Personally I think it's a disgrace
And what makes it worse... The must have gotten the info from other cops (I can't think of any other way they could have gotten names & pics)

Dudess

You read it here folks: only a feminist would say "You can't joke about rape". Yes it has been blown out of proportion, yes there have been ludicrously distorted reports, no I don't think they deserve a harsh reprimand, but they're still knuckledraggers, and that "feminist" comment is knuckledraggy.

MagicSean

angelfire9 wrote: »

The Irish Daily mail has seemingly (according to thejournal.ie) published the names and photos of the Gardai involved

Personally I think it's a disgrace
And what makes it worse... The must have gotten the info from other cops (I can't think of any other way they could have gotten names & pics)

The protesters would have their names.

angelfire9

k_mac wrote: »

The protesters would have their names.

Names yes, but pics?
Plus the mail has seemingly stated that one of the cops involved had recently been commended for his dealings with an actual rape case they wouldn't have gotten that info from the women!

pah

angelfire9 wrote: »

Names yes, but pics?
Plus the mail has seemingly stated that one of the cops involved had recently been commended for his dealings with an actual rape case

just goes to show how desensitised one could become.

I've just listened to the tape and tbh its 15 seconds of the 40 minutes that is being splashed all over the media & is unfortunate. I don't believe that any member would repeat this kind of thing in public and as a private conversation it should not have been made public.

I wonder how many people have commented about this without listening to the whole tape?

There was a protest outside the dail yesterday by

Source - indymedia.ie
Dublin Rape Crisis Centre, Shell to Sea, SIPTU and the National Women’s Council of Ireland as well as migrants, environmental and community organisations...

.

about 150 protestors from the above groups, all with a vested interest in publicising this as much as possible. As much as the gardai seem to have been desensitised to a degree it is the groups who are overly sensitive to the issue that are making the most noise. Unfortunately they don't seem to have the full story either.

Is this poster a fair reflection of the 40 minute recording?


I doubt this child knows anything about sex btw never mind rape! Why would you bring your kids along to something like this? Ridiculous!

goldie fish

I could stick my head above the parapet here and say the Rape Crisis centre should be renamed the Womens Rape Crisis centre. In their world, the woman is always the victim, and the man is always the culprit, and all men are potential rapists.

Remember a while back a male manager was forced from his job with them, and went public on the feminist agenda, only to be shouted down as a "typical insensitive man"?

Dudess

Look, you're right to be annoyed by that sexist crap against men, but using the term "feminist" as a perjorative looks ignorant.

Plus, I don't believe the RCC wouldn't welcome men who have experienced sexual abuse - sorry, but many men themselves make it difficult for males who have experienced sexual abuse as adults, or even as just teenagers: "Shur you should be glad you got some, har har" if it's by a woman.

I'd agree the RCC needs to be less feminised, and present itself more in such a way that it supports ALL who have experienced sexual abuse, but I don't agree it's not a support service for men. Nor do I agree its point of view is that all men are potential rapists.

discus

goldie fish wrote: »

I could stick my head above the parapet here and say the Rape Crisis centre should be renamed the Womens Rape Crisis centre. In their world, the woman is always the victim, and the man is always the culprit, and all men are potential rapists.

Same with the domestic abuse centres. You rarely hear them come looking for men who have stories to tell.

goldie fish

Dudess wrote: »

Look, you're right to be annoyed by that sexist crap against men, but using the term "feminist" as a perjorative looks ignorant.

Plus, I don't believe the RCC wouldn't welcome men who have experienced sexual abuse - sorry, but many men themselves make it difficult for males who have experienced sexual abuse as adults, or even as just teenagers: "Shur you should be glad you got some, har har" if it's by a woman.

I'd agree the RCC needs to be less feminised, and present itself more in such a way that it supports ALL who have experienced sexual abuse, but I don't agree it's not a support service for men. Nor do I agree its point of view is that all men are potential rapists.

It does not promote itself as an all gender support service.

Dudess

Yeah I said that.