My cat allegedly attacked a kid

franksm

Hi folks

A remote neighbour claims that my cat has attacked her kid, requiring her to go to hospital A&E for tetanus. The bill is headed my way for EUR100.

Now, I can't believe my cat would do something like that unless in self defence.

Am I liable to pay ?

Also, the kids mother threatened that the cat would end up dead if the bill wasn't paid, which is a different ball game as I don't want to be subject to extortion.

I realise this forum isn't for giving legally binding advice, but any advice is welcome

Thanks
Frank

sambuka41

That sounds a bit mad!!!:eek: I'd imagine it was probably a bit of child harrassing cat/ cat little patience for kids. Although I would have thought a cat would just run away.

If it was your cat then I would say you are liable(morally,I cant comment on legally). I cant imagine the family are bringing their child to A&E for the fun of it. But I would ask to see the bill as proof that they did go. Have a chat about the circumstances and see if there is anything that you all can do to protect kid and cat in future.

Its better to have nicer neighbours than argue over legal rights. Some people really dont like cats so dont expect that its an idle threat, think of it as doing the right thing morally and protecting your cat from retaliation.

Tranceypoo

Did she say exactly what happened? Have you seen the kids injury and/or the hospital/dr bill, do you know this neighbour, do you think she might be scamming you or is genuine? It's kind of hard to know isn't it? I think threatening you that your cat would 'end up dead' is either taking the piss or a mother so upset that her child has been injured she is being irrational, does she mean your cat will end up dead as in she will harm it or she will get the guards or a vet or something? I'm not even sure what the law would say as regards to a cat. If it were me I would be asking for more information and wanting to see the child and I would know if my cat was capable or not, like you say if the child was goading or teasing the cat (not saying the child was) then you can't blame the cat for hitting out. Sounds like you need to get more information first off.

If your animal attacked someone else, yeah you're liable. Is it definitely your cat? I've just noticed loads more around my area lately, some I've never seen before.

mikemac

How is old is the child?

When my younger brother was a toddler he used to pull our dogs tail and bother him around the eyes and not surprisingly would got a well deserved nip! A cash will lash out with the claws

Maybe the child was doing the same to your cat and doesn't understand a cat will react

Wolfe Tone

Doesnt matter why the cat did it imo.

angelfire9

I wouldn't have thought they'd a right to demand the cat be PTS but I'm not a legal expert in the field
Dogs Yes maybe but Cats??????

Anyway back on topic (kinda)
MOST cats will only attack if trapped & provoked otherwise as sambuka41 said they'd run away

I'd be enquiring if anyone else (independent) saw the alleged incident

Having said that, our cat has been known to attack people who have come into our house unannounced
(my sister sauntered in the front door one morning when I was still in bed and the cat launched himself at her from half way up the stairs)

But my cat is PSYCHO!
He wouldn't do it outside the house though
Outside the house he's a pure chicken
Our neighbours have kids that are always asking to pet him and even if I HOLD him for them to come over for a run he escapes and hides

franksm

Yeah, the kid had scratch marks on one leg. I think it's legit enough, but the cat would only attack if provoked really. No idea of the background other than that. I was just a bit taken aback by "we'll send the bill to you, it's eur100, and it needs paid otherwise the cat will wind up dead"

xoxyx

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Doesnt matter why the cat did it imo.

Surely it does. It's different with dogs. Regardless of the reason / provocation, when a dog attacks, it's liable to do far more damage than a cat ever could. This is unfortunate, IMO, as one bite, regardless of the circumstances, can lead to a perfectly good dog having to be put down. I've never heard of anybody being seriously mauled by a cat though.

Therefore, there are certain rules regarding dog attacks which don't apply to cats. Cats are testy creatures by nature, but they're unlikely to do anybody serious harm. Therefore, if you tease a cat and it scratches you, you're going to have to take the blame. Don't expect to pull a cat's tail or scratch it's belly (most cats I know HATE this) and get away with it!

I think the reason behind why the cat attacked, if indeed it did, is very relevant.

If the cat chased the kid down the street for no reason and then jumped him, well, that would be a different story. Very unlikely though don't you think... !

Let the mum explain exactly what happened to your satisfaction and take it from there. She sounds like a real lovely (sarcasm included) person if she's threatening to have your cat killed!!

BengaLover

Cats dont just leap on random people and attack!
Bet the kid was touching it first.
I would require proof of injuries and proof that they WERE in A&E and a doctors report.
If they are bluffing then they most likely wont be in contact again.

sdanseo

To threaten that the cat will end up dead is intimidation and not acceptable. People who behave like that even in anger don't deserve to be part of society.

Call the Gardaí. She could have meant put to sleep by the relevant authorities, she could equally have meant she plans on doing it herself.

As for anything other than that, if the cat scraped someone then you are liable to pay. Her intimidating you is a totally different matter.

Aishae

im wondering how old is the child? im just thinking - kids lie. they embellish. sure we all do... and theyll do it all the more so they dont get in trouble. lets say the kid is the one that approached your cat, maybe grabbed the tail (perhaps not realising thats a nono) - so the kid thinks 'if i admit i hurt the cat first ill be in trouble' so they say 'he just attacked me'
its happened...

but if it was a young child (one who doesnt understand about pulling tails etc) - what was he doing alone? and if he's older then its possible he knew he'd hurt the cat - but wasnt expecting the defence.

definitely ask for proof of the bill (and possibly to see the child too). its not completely impossible that - even if everything is true, it all happened - they might have a medical card and its a quick buck.
they might be insulted that you wont take their word for it (esp if its genuine) but in this day and age you need to be savvy

but it could also be a distraught and angry parent reacting. i have never heard of a cat being put down for attacking (like dogs) - that does sound like the anger more than anything.

i agree that - morally - if an animal attacks then the owner is liable but thats a grey area if the animal was hurt or threatened. which is why kids have to be taught to respect animals - so they dont get hurt themselves.

F-Stop

"Attacked" or "scratched"?

If your cat "attacked" the child, which sounds... well, weird, as cats don't usually go seeking out children to attack unless they are mental, then the child would have required a lot more than a tetanus shot.

If it "scratched" the child, well sure, it's a cat. They have claws, the scratch. Surely any well intentioned mother has explained that if you go near a cat it's possible you'll get a scratch. Ever had a cat on your lap purring away and suddenly the claws dig in? That is not an attack.

You are very unlikely to get tetanus from a scratch from a cat. If she decided to go to the hospital for a jab that was her choice, in my opinion, and you shouldn't be liable for it. (That's of course if it was just a scratch and not an unprovoked attack which would be pretty worrying.) It wasn't necessary medical attention such as stiches or reattaching the child's limbs. That said, as pointed out above, in the long run it might be better to fork over the money just for an easy life and avoiding the hassle. I would advise the mother to not let her child go near the cat again as you won't pay out twice.

None of that is legal advice, just my tuppence.

Tayla

How does she know it was your cat?

kylith

If your cat scratched her IMO you are liable. The hospital trip would have been necessary because of the risk of infection; Cats can carry bartonella bacteria which can cause fever and inflammation of the lymph nodes. By all means ask for a report from the doctor, but if it seems that your cat may have done it you should accept responsibility.

ISDW

What do you mean by 'remote neighbour'? How far away from you do they live, and is it feasible that your cat would have wandered that far? Or did it happen near your property?

tricky D

That the cat attacked the child without provocation is very unlikely.

Unless the cat has previous mischevious tendencies, you are not civilly liable.

The threat to have your cat wind up dead should be reported to the Garda, as being put to sleep is not a risk unless there are the previous mischevious tendencies.

Mike...

The cat should be destroyed immediately...

stargazer 68

Well my cat (and I know other cats who do it too) sticks her claws into you any chance she gets!! Even passing her on the stairs and she has sunk a claw into my ankle!

franksm

Thanks for the replies here.

The kid is about 7 or 8, and by 'remote neighbours' what I meant was 'neighbours from 5 houses away'.

My cat is pure white (although not one of the deaf types) so easily identifiable compared to, say, a tabby moggy.

If I was a parent, I would take my kid to the doctor for tetanus, so I do understand that part of it. But knowing cats I would chalk it up to a learning exercise - cats don't attack for fun, only when provoked or cornered - and would not go making threats or demanding money.

I'll see if a bill comes my way...

Advice is welcome, thanks to all. I know it's Boards and not legally binding, but it's good info none-the-less

franksm

Mike... wrote: »

The cat should be destroyed immediately...

Eh ? 6 word sentence - care to expand on that ?
By immediately, do you mean that I should believe anything I am told and not seek proof or anything ?

mikom

tricky D wrote: »

That the cat attacked the child without provocation is very unlikely.

SophieSakura

Cats usually don't attack anyone, so I don't believe it. Maybe the kid picked the cat up and it scratched him. I guess they could say the cat shouldn't have been on their property, but I think it's pretty ridiculous, I don't think you should have to pay.

planetX

No way, the kid must have been 'playing' with it, a cat will not just go up to a strange child and scratch. It was probably trying desperately to get away. Having said that I would take the death threat seriously, and with such a recognisable cat too - it's extortion, but maybe worth paying. Or find a safer place for your cat to live:(

tk123

Meet them half way and give them €50 - unless they have video footage of what happened.

pokertalk

SophieSakura wrote: »

Cats usually don't attack anyone, so I don't believe it. Maybe the kid picked the cat up and it scratched him. I guess they could say the cat shouldn't have been on their property, but I think it's pretty ridiculous, I don't think you should have to pay.

do your neighbours have any reason they would lie to u?? if someone said my cat attacked them and they had to go yo hospital then the responsible thung to do is pay the bill .as for cats not attacking people???.dunno where your getting that statement from

The Sweeper

Cats can and will absolutely attack people with minimum provocation. Provocation for a cat can be linked strongly into body language and / or the way you're touching it, or simply that the cat is in high hunting drive and something moves near it. A cat's own body language is quite subtle. Most folks know to watch the tail and little else, and can't read the signs from posture, position of ears and dilation of pupils.

You could be rustling your fingers in a bag of sweets on a couch and suddenly have a cat land on you, all claws out. Cats are highly reactive animals. The problem is they have exceedingly sharp front claws and can unintentionally do you quite a dramatic injury.

That child didn't necessarily have to be doing anything at all to that cat to receive a bad injury. He could have been sitting on the ground, legs akimbo, with the cat in his lap for instance. If something spooked the cat and it took off - they reflexively put their claws out for purchase when they accelerate from a fright and it'd leave your legs as mincemeat. The front ones go in as punctures and the backs are nearly worse because they're blunt and leave ragged scratches.

franksm, you're the only person here who knows your cat. You know if he's moody or friendly, smoochy or grumpy. You know whether your cat will swipe if you touch a particular part of his body - paws, tummy, tail, lower back - all hot zones in some cats who'd have your hand off at the elbow if you tried.

You also know if your cat can be a bit mad sometimes. Your cat could have been hiding in the bushes at that kid's house, prey drive all elevated for whatever reason, seen a pair of legs walking past and leapt at them. Most adult male moggies average at around 5kgs on the scales. Stick razor-sharp talons on the front end of that and yes, you can end up with quite a bit of flesh wound damage, even accidentally.

That's if this was an accident - if the kid WAS provoking your cat and provoked him heavily, he could easily have done a LOT of damage to him in self defence.

As for the mother threatening to kill your cat - you have to try and understand that cats do one thing that drives some people absolutely up the walls. If their owner doesn't restrict them, they go where they please. Into your garden to crap in your flowerbeds, into your front yard to piss up your front door, into your house where they'll sleep on your couch or your beds and you can find them on your kitchen counter eating the butter. Each of those individual things can be a LOT to take for someone who doesn't own or want a pet of their own, putting up with someone else's pet coming freely into their home.

Now add the scenario of a cat who roams freely into your house then doing damage to one of your kids involving a hospital visit and voila: angry death threats against the cat.

First thing you need to do is put your cat securely inside your house.

Then you're going to have to speak to the kid's parents again. You need the full story of what happened so you can understand what your cat reacted to. If the kid says he was just sitting beside me and then he went for me, instead of calling him a liar (even though it really might feel like that!) ask other questions - were there any unusual noises before the attack, anything high pitched or that could have given the cat a fright. Were there any other animals in or around the yard - other cats, or a dog, or birds in the garden that he was watching. Was anything moving on his trousers (e.g. a kid sitting on the path beside a cat, with his legs out stretched, absent-mindedly swirling a piece or string, rope, ribbon or paper, even something attached to one of his toys, would get the fright of his life to discover a large male cat suddenly attached to his shins with its claws out).

Try to calm them down and get the full story, and placate them by telling them you've shut your cat inside your house.

Then you'll have to make a decision. That child's mother could say to you 'I don't want that cat up here any more'. Please recognise that as much as you might think 'WTF am I supposed to do about that, he's a cat', she has a right to not have your animals on her property.

So you can either keep him indoors, or cat-proof your yard so he can't get out of it, or build him an enclosure, or buy that woman a supersoaker and tell her to hose your cat every time she sees him up there. Ask her not to hurt him, but give her permission to chase him away using something non-lethal (a jet of water) as opposed to leaving her seething and prone to trying to poison your cat.

As for the 100 euro, I'd be seeking legal advice because as far as I know, parting with money like that is an admission of liability. I don't know what the right answer is on that one - even go and chat to the gardai in the first instance and explain what's happened and ask their advice. The gardai are usually quite relaxed about cats (there's many a ranting non-cat-owner who've gone to the gardai to try and stop an animal pestering them, only to be laughed out of the station - this is one situation where that attitude may work in your favour).

Mike...

franksm wrote: »

Eh ? 6 word sentence - care to expand on that ?
By immediately, do you mean that I should believe anything I am told and not seek proof or anything ?

If it was a dog you would be saying the same thing, have the animal destroyed that will end the hassle and show that your a responsible member of the community...

franksm

Eh ? That's a bit random. What if it were a polar bear ?

It's a cat I am talking about. No "ifs" or any hypotheticals.

ISDW

Mike... wrote: »

If it was a dog you would be saying the same thing, have the animal destroyed that will end the hassle and show that your a responsible member of the community...

Without knowing what actually happened? Don't be so ridiculous.

anniehoo

Mike... wrote: »

The cat should be destroyed immediately...

Mike... wrote: »

If it was a dog you would be saying the same thing, have the animal destroyed that will end the hassle and show that your a responsible member of the community...

Your quotes make absolutely no justifiable sense whatsoever. If you knew cats at all you'd know why.

The Sweeper wrote: »

Cats can and will absolutely attack people with minimum provocation.

Agree. Cats are "reactors" and unlike dogs dont generally tolerate quick, fast or obstrusive movements without them being very well adjusted from a young age.They're instinctive "attackers"....even though "reactor" is a better term for domestic cats. Even then, ANYONE who knows cats understand that they are not "gentle players". My god, id be a millionaire if i sued for everytime a cat so called "attacked" me from simply rough playing. I could nearly guarantee their child just didnt understand the cats "boundaries" and anyone who owns cats will know what that means.

wrote:

As for the 100 euro, I'd be seeking legal advice because as far as I know, parting with money like that is an admission of liability.

I wouldnt even do that ( legal advice would cost you far more than the €100 tetanus shot (every child should have that anyway). If your neighbours have proof (not likely) then id call their bluff. The parents dont have a leg to stand on tbh. Cats are classed as "wild" even if you knock one down in a car.But if it was me, id be keeping my cat indoors for a verrrry long time from now. They're overprotective, non animal loving/liking parents by the sounds of it. They'd want to be pretty hard core to go to court over this tbh but i know theres alot of cat haters out there so id be keeping him well hidden for the forseeable future unfortunately.