solar central heating and H2O

luncia

Hello,
We are starting a new build next week and trying to make a decision about central heating...
We are building a highly insulated, air tight house with UFH throughout, discussing options:

1, oil plus solar for water
2. solar panels for both heating and water

We ahve been talking to a rep from a company that sells solar panels that "work day and night,hail,rain, wind and shine" and allegedly can provide 100% heating and water. The panel is made from anodized aluminium - perhaps you know what I am speaking of.

the water only system is 4000 E installed and water and heating about 15000 E BUT DOES IT REALLY WORK??

all opinions and intelligence welcomed

Thank you

gman2k

luncia wrote: »

"work day and night,hail,rain, wind and shine" BUT DOES IT REALLY WORK??

all opinions and intelligence welcomed

Never heard of solar working at night to be honest. There is talk of future materials getting energy from moon and starlight.

dathi

thats a heat pump which has a panel on the roof that kind of muddies the water between whether it is solar collector or heat pump. it has been discussed before on boards two things for you to find out about is 1 when the panel temp falls eg. rain or night how does this effect its cop. (coefficent of power) 2 it has an electric element so at what stage does it kick in turning the whole system into nothing more than an emersion heater.

quentingargan

Using solar to heat your home just doesn't work - the system works best when you need it least, and the better insulated your house is, the shorter the heating season is, and therefore the less effective solar will be for space heating.

However, solar water heating works well in this situation because your heating will (hopefully) be off for at least 8 months of the year. During that time, your hot water is more expensive because it either comes from running the heating very inefficiently, or from an immersion. I would opt for tubes over flatplates to extend the season as far as possible into spring and autumn if you are confident that your house won't need heat during those seasons.

Connecting a heat pump type system to a small radiator on your roof in a new-build makes no sense to my mind. If you are going to use a heat pump, you might as well bury pipes while there is a digger around and do it using geothermal to raise the COP. I'm not a fan of heat pumps personally, but some people swear by them, and they work best with underground pipes or a bore hole.

Q

killbill137

had a presentation during the week from lets talk solar. claims to heat water and radiators all year around. also on their brochure they say 324 percent more delivered energy than next best system. the worlds first "daylight powered" full performance solar collector. system is designed by german company called ritter. just wondering does any one know whether it actually works or anyone had it installed as it sounds too good to be true?

freddyuk

luncia wrote: »

Hello,
We are starting a new build next week and trying to make a decision about central heating...
We are building a highly insulated, air tight house with UFH throughout, discussing options:

1, oil plus solar for water
2. solar panels for both heating and water

We ahve been talking to a rep from a company that sells solar panels that "work day and night,hail,rain, wind and shine" and allegedly can provide 100% heating and water. The panel is made from anodized aluminium - perhaps you know what I am speaking of.

the water only system is 4000 E installed and water and heating about 15000 E BUT DOES IT REALLY WORK??

all opinions and intelligence welcomed

Thank you

The system you are considering is a "thermodynamic panel" system. Search that and you will find one member who has posted results out of several who have it installed.These systems efficiency drop with temperature but as we have not had a cold winter the systems have not been proven but the results we have seen show the energy required to run them is directly proportional to the ambient temperature and so all the claims are made for summer working conditions. In winter the "panel" can actually frost up thus further dropping COP.
My concern is that you are building an airtight super insulated house with underfloor heating and then considering spending €15,000 on a heating system. I thought the idea of such a house was that the heating input was minimal? I would spend that money on triple glazing and further efficiency improvements so the extra heating is not required. As Quentin suggests having the plant on site to lay some pipes in trenches is an investment worth making as that is the low cost part of GSH. If the existing technology improves the efficiency of GSHP then all you have to do is connect the heat pump and not tear up the garden. I wonder what the heat demand of the new house is as this surely is a starting point? As for Solar thermal for hot water this is a no brainer. Just make sure it is sized correctly and installed by someone competent.

muffler

@ freddyuk......you do realise that you have just replied to a 2 year old post (well almost) where the OP stated they were beginning work "next week"

freddyuk

I do now and my comments are still relevant although a little late
I wonder what happened as I hate loose ends in threads.
I'll get my coat......

Condenser

killbill137 wrote: »

had a presentation during the week from lets talk solar. claims to heat water and radiators all year around. also on their brochure they say 324 percent more delivered energy than next best system. the worlds first "daylight powered" full performance solar collector. system is designed by german company called ritter. just wondering does any one know whether it actually works or anyone had it installed as it sounds too good to be true?

The company should really be renamed Lets talk sh*te seen as the system is less than half as efficient as the best heat pumps out there and has numerous other downsides, unless of course the "next best system" is an immersion.

Tommyboy08

If the existing technology improves the efficiency of GSHP then all you have to do is connect the heat pump and not tear up the garden.
It already has improved, forget your standard heat pumps with Cop's of 4.2 , nibe, Danfoss, Dimplex thermia and the like, just look at the performance levels from DX heat pumps, miles ahead of the standard brine units,

freddyuk

Go on.........???

Idunno

<snip>

Mikeoem

@killbill137 did you ever go with that solar company or find something better?

scarey1

Just had guy here today plugging the Lets talk solar system. Does anyone know if its a success as it sounds terrific.

ccsolar

scarey1 wrote: »

Just had guy here today plugging the Lets talk solar system. Does anyone know if its a success as it sounds terrific.

Hi scarey
If it sounds too good to be true then it normally is ......
What exactly were they trying to sell you and how much was it going to cost???
Are they willing to give a money back guarantee if your not happy??
If it's that good they should have no problem guaranteeing the systems performance
Cc

quentingargan

scarey1 wrote: »

Just had guy here today plugging the Lets talk solar system. Does anyone know if its a success as it sounds terrific.

Solar central heating? Gotta be joking.

quentingargan

quentingargan wrote: »

Solar central heating? Gotta be joking.

On it's own, yes it's a joke, but if you have a well insulated house and have designed it to have decent passive solar gain then you'll have some benefit, but you MUST have a backup heat source.

dathi

no certs or figures on their website (as usual) but got the following from ritter solar,s webpage which seems to be the collector they are using. efficiency n0 64.2% heatloss a1, 0.89 a2,0.001 so hardly the best preforming system in ireland

robclay26

Had the rep call in, have an old farm labourers cottage all dry lined /insulated plasterboard 3". Oil Central heating, a single story kitchen and a single story bathroom extension.
Rep said €300 aprox per year for oil to hear the house with their solar system installed.
By Jeysus did I nearly get a heart attack , €17,000 for the system with a 250l tank, that's copper not stainless steel, oh and discounts to bring it to 14,000.

If it does as it says on the tin, great, but very sceptical about it, even the rep claimed he has it on his house.

Would love to talk to somebody off the record if they have this system.
And wonder if your not satisfied with the product meeting it's specs , what can you do

freddyuk

Show us the figures he gave you to back this up? If he didn't give you any hard facts then why are you even considering? Walk (no run) away.

Capt'n Midnight

gman2k wrote: »

Never heard of solar working at night to be honest. There is talk of future materials getting energy from moon and starlight.

Full moon on a clear night is 1 Lux

Direct sunlight up to 100,000 Lux

robclay26

freddyuk wrote: »

Show us the figures he gave you to back this up? If he didn't give you any hard facts then why are you even considering? Walk (no run) away.

The energy saving/oil saving?
Was all verbal of course

hexosan

robclay26 wrote: »

The energy saving/oil saving?
Was all verbal of course

it must be true so

PeteHeat

robclay26 wrote: »

The energy saving/oil saving?
Was all verbal of course

Possibly the best way to answer you is with a question:

Why is only one company offering this amazing feat of engineering?

I have installed Ritter, a good product that will deliver within the confines of it's design and manufacture, you don't see Ritter advertising such performance, do you?

As to thermodynamic we gave the client their money back due to problems with their Solar Keymark certificate, let's just say we caught it before it became a problem.
.

Mannin

Any further update/users experience with the LTS Fuion system?

Sparkeyalphy

scarey1 wrote: »

Just had guy here today plugging the Lets talk solar system. Does anyone know if its a success as it sounds terrific.

Did you install this system in the end? Have spoken with the sales guy about this system and it does really sound great. Anyone else installed this sytem?

quentingargan

Sparkeyalphy wrote: »

Did you install this system in the end? Have spoken with the sales guy about this system and it does really sound great. Anyone else installed this sytem?

Get a grip folks. Ireland has 10% of the daylight in December that it has in June. So this should keep your house toasty warm in June when you have all the windows open :pac:

The best solar heating is a nice south facing window. Preferably with a view over your driveway so you can set your dogs on these slick sales merchants.

robclay26

quentingargan wrote: »

Get a grip folks. Ireland has 10% of the daylight in December that it has in June. So this should keep your house toasty warm in June when you have all the windows open :pac:

The best solar heating is a nice south facing window. Preferably with a view over your driveway so you can set your dogs on these slick sales merchants.

Agree!
Your spot on Quentin

Mannin

I have installed the LTS system and am monitoring it's performance.

Installation v professional, after sales experience not so good.

Would appreciate input from other users re their experiences and how performance matches promises.

mp31

Mannin wrote: »

I have installed the LTS system and am monitoring it's performance.

Installation v professional, after sales experience not so good.

Would appreciate input from other users re their experiences and how performance matches promises.

I'm thinking about the LTS as well.. the customer video testimonials on their website seem to suggest that the system works well and saves quite a bit of money.

What size of system do you have i.e. number of solar panels & water cylinder?

Also, is the domestic hot water now mains-fed instead of coming from the tank in the attic thereby improving pressure for showers etc.

Can you elaborate on the after sales experience being 'not so good'

implausible

Mannin wrote: »

I have installed the LTS system and am monitoring it's performance.

Installation v professional, after sales experience not so good.

Would appreciate input from other users re their experiences and how performance matches promises.

Would love to hear about how it's working now too. Considering this system too.