Todays English Grand National

IrishHomer

Am i the only one to be upset by today's grand national?

I have been watching it for the past 40yrs and always got carried away with the hype, but sadly today i saw the real behind the scenes carnage that we are not supposed to see.

On th esecond lap Two fences of the thirty were bypassed due to dead horses.

Last grand national i will watch another cruel example of our misuse of animals.

brianthomas

It's always been a terrible race. I never watch anymore. It's just too much for the horses. Should be downsized for the sake of the animals.

Shazanne

You're not the only one. I was terribly upset by it too. I could not get over the thought that these two beautiful animals were led to their death today just to entertain people. And they had no choice in the matter. It's no better than dog-fighting and is definitely animal cruelty.
I have been thinking about it ever since. Are there any animals groups that protest at these types of events (the Grand National in particular?) as I would certainly join them.

Im Only 71Kg

it's a great race. highlight of the racing calender for me.

keith gallagher

It happens in racing every day. It can even happen during training. I'm not saying its right but these days horses are mainly bred for racing or showjumping.

Im Only 71Kg

i dont know where you're going with the animal cruelty thing..it's absolute nonsense..

keith gallagher

The jockeys risk their own lives too.

paultf

My sister was at a local point-to-point a couple of weeks ago and 2 horses had to be put down. Seems to be the norm, sadly.

Shazanne

Im Only 71Kg wrote: »

i dont know where you're going with the animal cruelty thing..it's absolute nonsense..

Two horses are led out to run a high-stakes race, fall and break their back/neck, scream in agony until the vet can get to them and are then shot. Where is the "absolute nonsense" in that?
I feel very strongly about anything that cause suffering of any kind to an animal. I cannot accept that such suffering has/is being caused for human entertainment.

Slattsy

Get a hobby ffs !

ISDW

IrishHomer wrote: »

Am i the only one to be upset by today's grand national?

I have been watching it for the past 40yrs and always got carried away with the hype, but sadly today i saw the real behind the scenes carnage that we are not supposed to see.

On th esecond lap Two fences of the thirty were bypassed due to dead horses.

Last grand national i will watch another cruel example of our misuse of animals.

I stopped watching it years ago because of the rate of horse mortality.

Im Only 71Kg wrote: »

i dont know where you're going with the animal cruelty thing..it's absolute nonsense..

What would you call 2 horses dying?

keith gallagher wrote: »

The jockeys risk their own lives too.

And it is the jockey's choice whether or not to take part, the horses don't really have that option.

Shazanne

Slattsy wrote: »

Get a hobby ffs !

I have several hobbies - none of which involve inflicting suffering on anyone or anything else! I also have a heart and a conscience - you??

Im Only 71Kg

Shazanne wrote: »

Two horses are led out to run a high-stakes race, fall and break their back/neck, scream in agony until the vet can get to them and are then shot. Where is the "absolute nonsense" in that?
I feel very strongly about anything that cause suffering of any kind to an animal. I cannot accept that such suffering has/is being caused for human entertainment.[/QUOTE

...they are animals. you seem to have an irrational emotional attachment which i and many people dont have.

ISDW

Im Only 71Kg wrote: »

...they are animals. you seem to have an irrational emotional attachment which i and many people dont have.

I don't see an emotional attachment in the OP's attitude, I see a humanitarian attitude, that doesn't understand why an animal has to die just to entertain people

Shanao

Im Only 71Kg wrote: »

...they are animals. you seem to have an irrational emotional attachment which i and many people dont have.

Do tell us just which part of respecting our fellow creatures and abhorring animal cruelty is irrational? So if they were two humans who had fallen and died no one would have cared? Doubtful? What exactly makes us so high and mighty amongst the rest of the animals might I ask? We're the only creatures that kill for sport and abuse both our own kind and others for fun, so why exactly do people have no problem with innocent animals dying for our entertainment?
This may astound you to learn, but quite a lot of people have that very same 'irrational' attachment.

Slattsy

Shazanne wrote: »

I have several hobbies - none of which involve inflicting suffering on anyone or anything else! I also have a heart and a conscience - you??

Nope was born without a heart, im a medical marvel.

On a serious note, you have to realise that these horses were born and bred to race. Horses racing/ breeding is a multi-billion pound business, yes business.

Clearly its unfortunate, no one actually wants to hear that a horse has died, but thats what it is. Dont watch racing and pay no heed to anything on the subject to avoid any further unhappiness you may feel in the future. You'll be sorted then !!

You know, there's a young jockey in critical condition in hospital tonight after a fall earlier... lets put this into perspective here please !! Ridiculous.

doctor evil

Shazanne wrote: »

Two horses are led out to run a high-stakes race, fall and break their back/neck, scream in agony until the vet can get to them and are then shot. Where is the "absolute nonsense" in that?
I feel very strongly about anything that cause suffering of any kind to an animal. I cannot accept that such suffering has/is being caused for human entertainment.

How do you know they were screaming in agony, wouldn't they be dead if they broke their neck? These horses are treated like top athletes and are not just entered into the race for the heck of it.

Horses can injure and kill themselves in lots of situations. I have a very big thing about not leaving head collars on in the stable.

Im Only 71Kg

it doesn't have to die..it just has to jump all the fences..it's unfortunate that there is a fatality on occasion. thats not intentional..it's in no way animal cruelty..to say that horse racing is cruel is ridiculous. they're animals bred for racing/jumping/hurdling by professionals in the field.

pokertalk

Im Only 71Kg wrote: »

it doesn't have to die..it just has to jump all the fences..it's unfortunate that there is a fatality on occasion. thats not intentional..it's in no way animal cruelty..to say that horse racing is cruel is ridiculous. they're animals bred for racing/jumping/hurdling by professionals in the field.

so if the horse has not being performing well for a while what becomes of them then. i have heard some horror stories of so called usless horses
and this from well known trainers mouth

PeakOutput

ISDW wrote: »

What would you call 2 horses dying?

an accident obviously, just because an animal dies does not necessarily mean it was the victim of cruelty of any kind

there are dog events were dogs are 'led out' / 'forced' to jump over obstacles and such. if one was to have an accident and trip going over a fence and break its neck would you argue that it was a cruel and sadistic sport? i doubt it

the horses don't really have that option.

read the thread in after hours horses are not easily forced to do anything

ISDW wrote: »

I don't see an emotional attachment in the OP's attitude, I see a humanitarian attitude, that doesn't understand why an animal has to die just to entertain people

i guarantee you that nobody(well as good as nobody there are always a few sickos) watching was entertained by the deaths of the horses

so if the horse has not being performing well for a while what becomes of them then. i have heard some horror stories of so called usless horses
and this from well known trainers mouth

thats a problem with individual people not the sport in general, you cant criticise a sport for the actions of individuals away from the actual sporting events. there is nothing, nothing, inherently cruel about horse racing

R P McMurphy

pokertalk wrote: »

so if the horse has not being performing well for a while what becomes of them then. i have heard some horror stories of so called usless horses
and this from well known trainers mouth

The vast majority of these horses are extremely well cared for both when active and retired. I do think they need to look at this race again, reduce number of riders and make lower jumps. A lot of trainers and all involved at the stables would have a close attachment to the horses as they work with them everyday

pokertalk

well he talked about it without even blinkingan eye which may suggest that this kind of thing is the norm so maybe it goes on more than you think he used the words usless bastards when refering to horses before having them shot

Shazanne

I understand that horse racing in general is not a cruel sport. But this thread is specifically about the English Grand National, which has for many years been hotly debated as being cruel to horses. Primarily there are justified concerns about the number of horses permitted to take part, as well as concerns about the course itself. If you note from the statistics given above there are almost always equine fatalities as a result of this race - surely this fact alone should be enough to brand the event as dangerous and cruel to horses.
I would ask that posters concentrate on this particular race and not generalise horse racing.

ISDW

Thank you Shazanne, I was about to come on and make the same point. I never said horse racing was cruel, we are talking about this specific race. It has been discussed for many years and I think its time it was either stopped altogether or the jumps were altered.

pokertalk

R P McMurphy wrote: »

The vast majority of these horses are extremely well cared for both when active and retired. I do think they need to look at this race again, reduce number of riders and make lower jumps. A lot of trainers and all involved at the stables would have a close attachment to the horses as they work with them everyday

but at the end of the day trainers breeders are there for the money and that would be all of them not the vast majority

ISDW

PeakOutput wrote: »

an accident obviously, just because an animal dies does not necessarily mean it was the victim of cruelty of any kind

there are dog events were dogs are 'led out' / 'forced' to jump over obstacles and such. if one was to have an accident and trip going over a fence and break its neck would you argue that it was a cruel and sadistic sport? i doubt it



read the thread in after hours horses are not easily forced to do anything



i guarantee you that nobody(well as good as nobody there are always a few sickos) watching was entertained by the deaths of the horses



thats a problem with individual people not the sport in general, you cant criticise a sport for the actions of individuals away from the actual sporting events. there is nothing, nothing, inherently cruel about horse racing

Can you please tell me an event where dogs are forced to jump obstacles.

I don't watch this race, I haven't watched it for a long time, so I don't know, but when was the last time this particular race was run with no horse fatalities? I know the average for this meet is 3 horse deaths each year. Surely that is cruelty and they are needless deaths for human entertainment?

pokertalk

ISDW wrote: »

Can you please tell me an event where dogs are forced to jump obstacles.

I don't watch this race, I haven't watched it for a long time, so I don't know, but when was the last time this particular race was run with no horse fatalities? I know the average for this meet is 3 horse deaths each year. Surely that is cruelty and they are needless deaths for human entertainment?

they use hurdles in greyhound racing which is another sport i have problems with

ISDW

pokertalk wrote: »

they use hurdles in greyhound racing

And you've obviously never read my views on greyhound racing:D But still, there is nobody forcing the dog to go over the obstacles, if they decide they're not going to jump, they won't, with a horse, the jockey will urge them on.

PeakOutput

ISDW wrote: »

Can you please tell me an event where dogs are forced to jump obstacles.

agility competitions have hurdles amongst other obstacles dont they i might be mixing up the name but im pretty sure i have seen people discussing training their dogs to do this on this very board

pokertalk

ISDW wrote: »

And you've obviously never read my views on greyhound racing:D But still, there is nobody forcing the dog to go over the obstacles, if they decide they're not going to jump, they won't, with a horse, the jockey will urge them on.

ohhh i have read your opinons on greyhound racing and alot of them mirror my own but thats a whole other thread:)

ISDW

PeakOutput wrote: »

agility competitions have hurdles amongst other obstacles dont they i might be mixing up the name but im pretty sure i have seen people discussing training their dogs to do this on this very board

Yes, and the dog has the option of not jumping the obstacle, they aren't on a lead or attached to the handler, if the dog wants to turn around and run the other way, they can.