Todays English Grand National

Discodog

Isn't that the key issue. We have morals & principles regarding pet animals. Yes you can kill a healthy dog but the majority seem to accept that it is not ethical & don't do it.

But we say that other animals do not deserve the same protection. A Greyhound is a dog & feels pain just as any other dog but we class it as a sub species that can be abused for money.

I spent many years living in English villages surrounded by horses. Many little girls had a pony & those that couldn't afford the real thing had a "My Little Pony". It always amazed me how the pony would be revered & great love would be expressed for it until it was no longer suitable. It would then be sold without a second thought. Most "horse people" see the horse as a commodity.

Maybe this is one of the reasons why so many horses have just been abandoned & starved. Even in Ireland the public would speak out against fields full of starving dogs but horses are seen as livestock with no commercial value.

The GN generates millions. It's PR image has been severely dented & it will have to be seen to be making changes - I doubt if it's sponsors wanted this kind of publicity. If it continues to want to be the toughest race then we will have more dead horses & upset viewers.

eilo1

ppink wrote: »

are horses pets though?

not too many thoroughbreds will be classed as pets I'd imagine, in fact not many horses at all?

Some people keep ponys as pets, especially fababellas (not sure of the spelling)
I also ment that phrase to cover companion animals.

eilo1

Discodog wrote: »

Most "horse people" see the horse as a commodity.

really ...........................................................:rolleyes:

ppink

Discodog wrote: »

Isn't that the key issue. We have morals & principles regarding pet animals. Yes you can kill a healthy dog but the majority seem to accept that it is not ethical & don't do it.

But we say that other animals do not deserve the same protection. A Greyhound is a dog & feels pain just as any other dog but we class it as a sub species that can be abused for money.

I spent many years living in English villages surrounded by horses. Many little girls had a pony & those that couldn't afford the real thing had a "My Little Pony". It always amazed me how the pony would be revered & great love would be expressed for it until it was no longer suitable. It would then be sold without a second thought. Most "horse people" see the horse as a commodity.

Maybe this is one of the reasons why so many horses have just been abandoned & starved. Even in Ireland the public would speak out against fields full of starving dogs but horses are seen as livestock with no commercial value.

The GN generates millions. It's PR image has been severely dented & it will have to be seen to be making changes - I doubt if it's sponsors wanted this kind of publicity. If it continues to want to be the toughest race then we will have more dead horses & upset viewers.

yes i see the point but I do know that it is a sweeping generalisation. in my experience I do know those who could sell an animal without a second thought but I equally know others who keep track of where the horses they have bred go and what happens to them. Some want them back if there is an issue also...similar to "responsible" dog breeders maybe?

Eilo is also correct about the companion animals. It surprises me the amount of horses I know on stud farms that are not "producing" but are kept because of sentiment.
Of course your reference to Coolmore is possibly a different ballgame but the one thing for sure is their horses will not end up dumped on the side of the road like some horses (thoroughbreds) I recently fostered!
I find Coolmore hard to discuss in terms of the topic of GN to be honest. i think it is a whole separate thread.

As regards the horses starving people do not know I think. most people in ireland would not know a starving horse if it landed on their head!!
Even with years of experience of horses I was absolutely unprepared for the shock of starved horses in the flesh so to speak.


It all boils down to should horses and greyhounds race at all?

Back to the GN- I query the "knowledge" that allowed the lowering of fences and hence the speeding up of the race. As I said before I never saw one fence missed in the races from 1973-1977. I dont know if there were deaths but there were plenty of refusals where jockeys were dumped over the fence without their horses! I did not see much of that this year.

doctor evil

pokertalk wrote: »

my point is that no horse that is healthy should be pts

Destroyed by what means? Vet or sent to the factory. Sick horses can't go to the factory. Why should owners wait until their animals become unwell before being put down rather than send it to the abbattoir especially when there is no demand for them and owners can't afford to keep them or yard owners find themselves dumped with these animals. Logistically and ethically not all animals can be rehomed.

You cannot state that healthy animals shouldn't be put to sleep without looking at the wider context.

pokertalk

ppink wrote: »

are horses pets though?

not too many thoroughbreds will be classed as pets I'd imagine, in fact not many horses at all?

ok i will not pets lets say any other healthy animal.so do you have a problem with healthy horse down wetherit be a pet or race horse

pokertalk

eilo1 wrote: »

If you reread my posts you will understand all the options available for a thoroughbred apart from racing!

Oh and can I just ask, for someone so concerned about the health of our horses have you ever rehomed or retrained a race horse? Have you ever donated your hard earned cash or free time to the IHPL or stayed up all night in a stable with a colicing animal to ensure they are comfortable?

nope have done it with dogs do. you seem to be taking my comments as some sort of personal attack for some reason.i have never said that you put a healthy horse down and fair play to you for giving your money and
time to it but all im saying is there is no reason for any trainer /owner to put a horse down but yet i was only talking to a trainer that did because the horses were juseless bastards. his words not mine

ppink

Another 2 gone from last weeks Scottish national, both Irish

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/horseracing/8456569/Two-horses-die-at-Scottish-Grand-National.html



wonder what this week Irish national will bring:(

BARNEYDUD

Have to agree with all that has been said.
A sad indictment of the human races lack of ability to be able to differentiate between animal cruelty and sport.
Just another example.
During the past four or five years here in Ireland people had money and because of the Irish love of horses either bought a horse or set-up a syndicate/group who bought a horse to get it trained for racing.
Now the hard times have hit the horse charities are overwhelmed by the significant numbers of horses that have been abandoned and even put down because their livery and up-keep cannot be afforded now.
If you read this and you are one of those people you should be ashamed of yourself and remember the world goes round in circles. You will get you time when things come back to hurt you and then you will know why.

doctor evil

According to the article one died of a heartattack and another of internal bleeding, not by a fall. Both had won their previous races and were in top form.

pokertalk

doctor evil wrote: »

Destroyed by what means? Vet or sent to the factory. Sick horses can't go to the factory. Why should owners wait until their animals become unwell before being put down rather than send it to the abbattoir especially when there is no demand for them and owners can't afford to keep them or yard owners find themselves dumped with these animals. Logistically and ethically not all animals can be rehomed.

You cannot state that healthy animals shouldn't be put to sleep without looking at the wider context.

if u cant afford to keep an animal in the long term then dont get one i would of thought that was pretty obvious. "why should owners wait untill their animails become unwell before being put down" is that a wind up??