Most Overrated and Underrated Players Mod warning post # 732

astonaidan

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

Varies, but between two (Liverpool and Dortmund) to half a dozen games. Recent new full time job and the NBA season starting up shortly means I'll be watching less football. However, watching Liverpool and Dortmund I'll always try and make time for. I'd say the average is three or four games a week at present.

Goes without saying that there are games when streaming, whether it for be interest or betting purposes (I prefer to watch who I bet on if possible), I'll be watching more intently than others of course. The joys of social media and those that I trust when it comes to football helps to keep on top of things incase I can't see something too.

Never played a single second of Football Manager so it's never been a reference point for me, despite a friend and a big cheese here trying to convince me that it was all that when we were younger

Is it weird I had you pinned as a gambler rather than a FM player, Id be like you generally watch one game a day a game I usually have money on, better odds in European leagues, but with NBA coming back going to miss a few games watching eh Lakers win the title Shut up Pau Gasol can carry a team

Nuri Sahin

Quazzie wrote: »

In fairness, I've lost count of the amount of times you've started a post by saying you watch more football than the person you're responding to. 4-6 games a week isn't a lot in fairness.

Show me some quotes backing that up if that is the case, should be plenty considering you lost count.

I meant a match/gameweek. I think the threads I comment in most weekends are quite telling.

Nuri Sahin

astonaidan wrote: »

Is it weird I had you pinned as a gambler rather than a FM player, Id be like you generally watch one game a day a game I usually have money on, better odds in European leagues, but with NBA coming back going to miss a few games watching eh Lakers win the title Shut up Pau Gasol can carry a team

Well, I was a mod of gambling for a couple of years :P

[OT]Lakers are better off tanking this season to get Andrew Wiggins in the draft in 9 months time tbh or at least a very good draft pick since the '14 draft is stacked compared to previous years, but the Lakers (and especially Kobe) and tanking just don't go together.[/OT]

kryogen

SlickRic wrote: »

genuinely, how much football do you watch? i'm honestly curious.

people in this country aren't necessarily in an EPL bubble. it's what many have grown up consuming, and it's just what we know. and many people do not have the time or the inclination to become massively au-fait with the amount of leagues you seem to be.

to know the amount of players you seem to, from the amount of different leagues you often seem to, is quite an impressive feat. if you genuinely know the strengths and weaknesses of all these players from watching them, like you seem to, i honestly don't know how you fit it all in. that's why people are curious.

so again, genuinely, how much football do you watch on...say...a weekly basis?

I would imagine, a lot of his football watching and research etc comes from gambling, like me.

Edit: I see he has answered the question. Carry on

Will I Amnt

So many people here talking through their ass.
Neither Cleverley or Young were/are guaranteed starters at United. How could they be overrated by a manager when they're not even guaranteed a game?

"What other United players can I put in that haven't been mentioned..derp...Cleverley...derp, derp...Young"

Nuri Sahin

kryogen wrote: »

I would imagine, a lot of his football watching and research etc comes from gambling, like me.

Edit: I see he has answered the question. Carry on

Proper football betting makes you watch games you'd never thought you'd ever see. I'm sure you can vouch for that as well :pac:

Blatter

Anybody remember Javi de Pedro? Used to love watching him and others in the Socidead team of 02/03.

He had one of the best left foots I can remember.

kryogen

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

Proper football betting makes you watch games you'd never thought you'd ever see. I'm sure you can vouch for that as well :pac:

Of course, never had much interest in Levadia, Flora or my personal favourite for getting a spanking Kuressaare (get on the other fodder Talinna Kalev to turn them over at home on Saturday!) until I started noticing the value to be had in the lesser known leagues, or the more corrupt leagues actually! Some of the odds shifts would amaze!

It has the by product of introducing you to new players too, which is always nice, particularly when you spot a rough diamond somewhere and then your club or even just a club you know gets linked to them

premierstone

v3ttel wrote: »

There always seems to be a big fanfare around Hulk. Sold to Zenit for ridiculous money, always gets a great ovation from the Brazilian fans.

I understand the fact that he's monstrous physically and scores the odd spectacular goal, but I've never been impressed by his ability or his general play. Particularly at international level, he has been pretty poor for all the hype that surrounds him.

Maybe he'll be more impressive at the World Cup next year.

I would imagine if his name was Pat or Mike he wouldnt be quite as big a star

premierstone

Will I Amnt wrote: »

So many people here talking through their ass.
Neither Cleverley or Young were/are guaranteed starters at United. How could they be overrated by a manager when they're not even guaranteed a game?

"What other United players can I put in that haven't been mentioned..derp...Cleverley...derp, derp...Young"

Cleverly is paid a wage by United so IMO he is over-rated, you may not agree thats the beauty of a public forum, this whole thread is merely peoples opinion, there is no set definition of over-rated and under-rated anyway as it depends on what parameters you are using.

Michael Carrick is the perfect example if defies all logic that in the space of 6 months he went from allegedly been the most under-rated player in the league to now allegedly being the most over-rated, it's all about perspective.

Marty McFly

[QUOTE=Mr.Micro;86928638
Underrated......Song, Carrick, Mata, Lukaku, Dawson, Oscar, Hazard, Essien





All IMO of course.:)[/QUOTE]


I don't know how anyone can think Song is underrated I was always of the opinion when he was at Arsenal he was never good enough I think some Arsenal fans were blinded by his one or two nice assists for RVP to notice he had no tactical discipline was often caught out of position and when he was very rarely busted a gut to get back and help out. Both Arteta and Flamini so far have proved themselves vastly superior in that role.

Also Song hasn't exactly lit the world on fire at Barcelona he was a poor signing for them imo.

astonaidan

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

Well, I was a mod of gambling for a couple of years :P

[OT]Lakers are better off tanking this season to get Andrew Wiggins in the draft in 9 months time tbh or at least a very good draft pick since the '14 draft is stacked compared to previous years, but the Lakers (and especially Kobe) and tanking just don't go together.[/OT]

Oh for sure, but well Lakers dont tank, they will be just outside the play offs imo, but sure were going to get Lebron and Carmelo next year when Kobe agrees to play for a Vets minimum :pac:

astonaidan

kryogen wrote: »

Of course, never had much interest in Levadia, Flora or my personal favourite for getting a spanking Kuressaare (get on the other fodder Talinna Kalev to turn them over at home on Saturday!) until I started noticing the value to be had in the lesser known leagues, or the more corrupt leagues actually! Some of the odds shifts would amaze!

It has the by product of introducing you to new players too, which is always nice, particularly when you spot a rough diamond somewhere and then your club or even just a club you know gets linked to them

And then you get to throw it in peoples faces that youve seen him play years ago, Yes I did this when Coeff moved to Udinese
#I Watch Lens in Ligue 2

Moneymaker

Marty McFly wrote: »

I don't know how anyone can think Song is underrated I was always of the opinion when he was at Arsenal he was never good enough I think some Arsenal fans were blinded by his one or two nice assists for RVP to notice he had no tactical discipline was often caught out of position and when he was very rarely busted a gut to get back and help out. Both Arteta and Flamini so far have proved themselves vastly superior in that role.

Also Song hasn't exactly lit the world on fire at Barcelona he was a poor signing for them imo.

I would consider Song over-rated personally.

Amazed Barca bought him and he pales to Keita who I always felt was an excellent player. Song is nowhere near Barcelona standard imo.

Marty McFly

Moneymaker wrote: »

I would consider Song over-rated personally.

Amazed Barca bought him and he pales to Keita who I always felt was an excellent player. Song is nowhere near Barcelona standard imo.

I agree he not good enough was never Arsenal standard either imo I had no problem he left and was suprised Barca were even in for him.

But overrated I don't know think Barcelona know they have bought a dud

This never gets old though

Quazzie

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

Show me some quotes backing that up if that is the case, should be plenty considering you lost count.

I meant a match/gameweek. I think the threads I comment in most weekends are quite telling.

I found one in my first ten seconds of searching. Anyways, my point is you come across smug and a real dismissive dick at times with your posts, which is unfortunate because I don't think you're either.

Anyways this isn't the time or the place for such a discussion.

Will I Amnt

premierstone wrote: »

Cleverly is paid a wage by United so IMO he is over-rated.

Ah here... Bebe gets paid by United, is he overrated too?

Your criteria for judging if a player is overrated or not is a bit odd to be honest.

premierstone

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Ah here... Bebe gets paid by United, is he overrated too?

Your criteria for judging if a player is overrated or not is a bit odd to be honest.

It was a tongue in cheek comment you know exactly what I meant, the fact that Cleverly is earning a living at United and in the first team squad on a regular basis and sees gametime makes him in my mind over-rated, simples.

And I have heard many Utd fans regurarly back him up and claim he is excellent cover which again makes him over-rated in my mind and off course the English media like they do with all their players, so thats sucessive managers, the fans and the media all have time for him - I think he's muck therefore I have come to the conclusion he is over-rated, glad to have to spell it out though :rolleyes:

AdamD

Since when did ridiculous opinion = person played Football Manager?!


I don't think the people who slag off Football Manager have ever even seen the game, never mind played it. Game's a masterpiece.

Smithwicks Man

I'd like to back up Nuri Sahin here tbh. We usually comment on the same threads and i can honestly say he has a good football knowledge and he doesn't come across as snobby at all imo. Following different leagues to the EPL doesn't make you snobby

Smithwicks Man

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

I'd like to back up Nuri Sahin here tbh. We usually comment on the same threads and i can honestly say he has a good football knowledge and he doesn't come across as snobby at all imo. Following different leagues to the EPL doesn't make you snobby

He shouldn't need to be backed up, anyone that gets annoyed at someone that has more knowledge than them possibly has some sort of complex going on.

It's good to hear about what's going on in other leagues and other players tbh especially if you don't get a chance to see them yourself.

Seaneh

I think Mr. Sahin is great, if I want to know about a player in Germany or France or Holland, leagues I wouldn't watch a whole loet and I ask in a thread about the player, he's usually one of the first reply.

Handy as a small pot.

764dak

AdamD wrote: »

Since when did ridiculous opinion = person played Football Manager?!


I don't think the people who slag off Football Manager have ever even seen the game, never mind played it. Game's a masterpiece.

Exactly. One of the reasons Vugar Huseynzade became a football manager was because he had around 10 years experience in FM. Even though he was 21, he beat Papin for the job.

Paully D

What the **** have I started.....

Nuri Sahin

Quazzie wrote: »

I found one in my first ten seconds of searching. Anyways, my point is you come across smug and a real dismissive dick at times with your posts, which is unfortunate because I don't think you're either.

Anyways this isn't the time or the place for such a discussion.

It isn't, but you can hardly blame me for continuing this now after your post.

I asked for quotes, and I'd like to know who I was replying to as well. PM if you so wish or post it here Quazzie, I have nothing to hide. I'm genuinely intrigued here, if slightly puzzled and bemused.

When either Dortmund or Liverpool are linked with a player, I will mention how many times I've seen a player properly when giving my full and honest opinion on X player. If you referring to this, will you've lost me. I see no harm in this.

At present, there are numerous people looking down and rolling their eyes at Seria A, even more so after the Arsenal v Napoli game. They look at it becoming worse. That is their outlook. I look at his at a hotbed of talent with some damn exciting teams. Juve are a colossus. Napoli and Roma are are damn entertaining. Milan and Inter are a bit Jekyll & Hyde. All makes for great viewing more often than not. I can do similar for pretty much all the leagues, because I'm not a dismissive and ignorant conte. I really wished I had more time to watch Seria A truth be told. Some are glass half full and others are half empty type of people, for the most part I'd be considered the former.

I do get what you're trying to say about without being offensive to me in thinking I'm doing it on purpose. Truth of the matter is, I rather be known as a dismissive dick to anyone who themselves is utterly dismissive and massively ignorant for the sake of being some keyboard warrior. I've been quite fortunate enough to be well traveled by the time I turned 13, let alone my age now at 25. I've watched and have worked in football, from watching football in tarnished old athletic stadiums in Bangladesh to fancy ones in Dubai and New York (I've been to a couple of Cosmos games recently) all the way across numerous grounds in Europe including this country to volunteering in coaching Japanese youngsters when I lived there over there for half a year. I ****ing love football. I love talking about different teams, styles, leagues and players. I've never claimed to be as financially or politically up to date as others are when it comes to football, so I rarely comment on such topics even if I have somewhat of an interest. I will ask questions if need be though. But yeah, anyone who simply says, urrrr, Dutch football is **** or the like some sort ignorant cretin, deserves to be looked down on somewhat. Likewise when the FM dig gets retorted. As I said previously, it used to be something to laugh at but it's boring at this stage considering there is no foundation to it at least in regards to myself. Sure, to be quite honest a few past soccer forum mods have either commented or thanked posts with such a dig at myself in the past which I find beyond astonishing how such people were or still are moderators of other forums if not this. They know who they are and frankly, my toilet paper comment is very much aimed at them along with the usual everyday trolls that plague this forum.

One thing is for sure, I do not look down on someone who knows less than me simply put, as long as they aren't dismissive and narrow minded. I'm always learning about football and will continue to do so. My only guilt is stooping down to their level on occasion when dealing with them.

Oranage2

Funny this I find nuri is one of three Liverpool fans whose posts are readable

Oat23

Nuri knows his sh*t. I don't understand how you could think he comes across as a 'smug, dismissive dick'. Baffling.

The only flaw he has is his dislike of LMA Manager and other management simulations. FM is the best game ever.

An almost flawless individual, who I plan to stalk on twitter for NBA bets in a few weeks.

Goodnight.

hefferboi

Oranage2 wrote: »

Funny this I find nuri is one of three Liverpool fans whose posts are readable

So that's Nuri and myself, I presume, who's the third?

Turtyturd

hefferboi wrote: »

So that's Nuri and myself, I presume, who's the third?

Joke's on him when he finds out you are both rarnes1 accounts.

Moneymaker

It's a sad day that people line up to have a go at Nuri Sahin.

I mean wtf. One of the best posters on here.

Kess73

Mod Post: Final warning before the thread gets locked. It is going off topic, and becoming a discussion on individual posters rather than the topic it was created for.

Moneymaker

Here are some more names to get some discussion going again

Under-rated:

Nobby Solano - Super little player, great set pieces, tidy on the ball and scored some screamers down the years. I loved him.
Riccardo Montolivio - Gets overlooked a lot but he's a really good player.
Koke - Massive for Atleti
Diego Godin - Ditto!
Andoni Iraola - Been first choice for Bilbao for over 10 years, criminal he has so few caps for Spain.
Kolo Toure - Always liked him at Arsenal, did a good job at City mostly and he's been massive for Liverpool
Henrik Larsson - Idolised at Celtic of course, but I feel a lot of fans don't give him the credit he deserves. Great player.
Robbie Keane - Slated time and time again by Irish "fans". His goal record speaks for itself and we would be well and truly ****ed without him.
Juan Cuadrado - One of the players I really enjoy to watch, this guy will surely be at a bigger club sooner rather then later.
Jonathan De Guzman: Solid and tidy player, very good for Swansea.

Over-rated:

Denilson - Betis broke the transfer record for this guy, he showed flashes of genius but ultimately he was a failure imo. Respectable international career but he wasn't worth the money or hype.
Alvaro Recoba - Went missing time after time for Inter. People over-estimate how good he was.
Gerard Pique - A good defender yes, but capable of some almighty brainfarts and he is not Barcelona quality imo. Barca's often overwhelming possession stats and their high pressing game masks a lot of his faults.
Ross Barkley - The Sky wankfest over this guy is quite nauseating. He has a lot to learn yet.
Hernanes - Another talented player but he goes missing far too often for me.

Unearthly

AdamD wrote: »

Since when did ridiculous opinion = person played Football Manager?!


I don't think the people who slag off Football Manager have ever even seen the game, never mind played it. Game's a masterpiece.

Aren't the clubs player stats rated by a season ticket holder of that team?

Of course the person might not have a clue about football, or be biased, but they are more qualified than most with their opinions

kryogen

Unearthly wrote: »

Aren't the clubs player stats rated by a season ticket holder of that team?

Of course the person might not have a clue about football, or be biased, but they are more qualified than most with their opinions

The FM team has people based in different countries watching the league/getting opinions on players.

That I know, actual football clubs using them as a resource is something rumoured, no idea if its true though.

Marty McFly

Moneymaker wrote: »

Robbie Keane - Slated time and time again by Irish "fans". His goal record speaks for itself and we would be well and truly ****ed without him.

Couldn't agree more on this one some people seem to have a vendetta against Robbie Keane yeh he was no Thierry Henry but he was a class player and his goals record for Ireland is fantastic there is no one even close to him if I remember correctly before him our goals record was 21 which he has more than doubled.

Even now despite the fact he is still scoring goals for Ireland everytime an Ireland game comes up you hear people sighing saying when will he ever be dropped sure he's playing in a shiit league it's madness imo as long as he puts a shift in for when he's playing for Ireland (which he always does) and continues to score goals I couldn't care what league he is playing or what standard that league is at.

He deserves more respect than what he gets from many Irish fans.

Seaneh

Unearthly wrote: »

Aren't the clubs player stats rated by a season ticket holder of that team?

Of course the person might not have a clue about football, or be biased, but they are more qualified than most with their opinions

The ratings are submitted by "scouts" all over the world, they are compiled, scrutinised and argued about and then submitted to SIGames, sometimes a player will be over rated, but, given the scope of the game, it's rare, it's usually pretty spot on for predicting prospects.

Smithwicks Man

kryogen wrote: »

The FM team has people based in different countries watching the league/getting opinions on players.

That I know, actual football clubs using them as a resource is something rumoured, no idea if its true though.

Everton used them to scout European talent in recent years as far as I'm aware. Think it mentions it on the FM wiki page actually

Chucky the tree

I'd rather use Football manager to scout a player than Martin O'Neil for example.

Dempsey

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

Everton used them to scout European talent in recent years as far as I'm aware. Think it mentions it on the FM wiki page actually

Thats correct

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/82709-everton-to-scout-new-wayne-rooney-through-computer-game

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/blues-sega-partnership.html

Quixoticelixer

Marty McFly wrote: »

Couldn't agree more on this one some people seem to have a vendetta against Robbie Keane yeh he was no Thierry Henry but he was a class player and his goals record for Ireland is fantastic there is no one even close to him if I remember correctly before him our goals record was 21 which he has more than doubled.

Even now despite the fact he is still scoring goals for Ireland everytime an Ireland game comes up you hear people sighing saying when will he ever be dropped sure he's playing in a shiit league it's madness imo as long as he puts a shift in for when he's playing for Ireland (which he always does) and continues to score goals I couldn't care what league he is playing or what standard that league is at.

He deserves more respect than what he gets from many Irish fans.

In the next 5 years we're going to have to put up with people moaning that we lack a Robbie Keane type striker. The people who complain that he only scores against crap opposition will suddenly bemoan our lack of a player who regularly scores against crap opposition.

I ain't saying the guy is Pele, but we may never again see an Irish striker who gets even half the amount of goals Robbie Keane has scored for us.

The_Kew_Tour

I think if Keane spoke like Brian O Driscoll he may be seen in different light.

Any Irish fan worth their salt knows how important he has been to the team over the years.

Its only when he will be gone we might actually appreciate his quality.

He was not world class, but he sure was not the average player some said he was either.

GTR63

This popped up in my twitter feed today, don`t agree with a some of it but said i`d post it anyway.

Smithwicks Man

I know I'm pro-Balotelli but I don't see how Balotelli was overrated. He moved to a new team that was struggling, scored 12 goals in 13 league games and dragged us up to 3rd place almost single-handedly. Then all I read was that half his goals were only penalties etc. despite the fact he earned most of them and was very good in general play a lot of the time.

He's destined to replicate the career of Ibrahimovic where his character will blind people from seeing how good he is.

El Shaarawy is another. 15 league goals from open play before Christmas for a 20 year old winger is an incredible return.

He died down in the after Christmas and fatigue definitely set in and his performances dropped, he was slated heavily for it though so I don't think he was rated any higher than he deserved to be, if even as high as he deserved to be!

764dak

wprathead wrote: »

Very Underrated Player:
Darijo Srna

How a big team (no disrespect to Shaktar) never snapped him up is beyond me

Quality player

GTR63

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

I know I'm pro-Balotelli but I don't see how Balotelli was overrated. He moved to a new team that was struggling, scored 12 goals in 13 league games and dragged us up to 3rd place almost single-handedly. Then all I read was that half his goals were only penalties etc. despite the fact he earned most of them and was very good in general play a lot of the time.

He's destined to replicate the career of Ibrahimovic where his character will blind people from seeing how good he is.

El Shaarawy is another. 15 league goals from open play before Christmas for a 20 year old winger is an incredible return.

If it wasn't for them two Milan would of finished 16th last year. I'd put Robinho down there at the very top with the awful Borriello not far behind. A lot of the Inter cling-on's in there too.

kryogen

Who overrates Robinho though? Or Borriello?

GTR63

kryogen wrote: »

Who overrates Robinho though? Or Borriello?

Milan overrated him by not having bombed him out by now and giving him chance after chance. Borriello appears on the above list and I have never gotten why he has played for Milan, Juve and Roma. The definition of an ordinary player.

Giggsy11

kryogen wrote: »

Who overrates Robinho though? Or Borriello?

Or Schelotto. I'm assuming it's the same player who played for Inter last season and they rate him as one of their worst ever player.

764dak

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Or Schelotto. I'm assuming it's the same player who played for Inter last season and they rate him as one of their worst ever player.

I've never liked worst player lists. Surely reserve players that can't even play for a team would be worse.

Giggsy11

764dak wrote: »

I've never liked worst player lists. Surely reserve players that can't even play for a team would be worse.

If they don't play for the first team how can they be worse player for first team?

More to the point, that's just to show how they don't rate him at all.