Most Overrated and Underrated Players Mod warning post # 732

Fuhrer

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Since when is 'not clinical' a comment on one's fitness?

Do you think people, broadly, actually think van Persie is as effective as Rooney or Drogba over the course of a season?

March 14th 1996

CorkMan

dannydiamond wrote: »

He's constantly mentioned as the worlds best keeper, how is that you think he's underated.

Dunno, he didn't get mentioned at all before he won Euro 2008 at all sometimes IMO. He was superb before winning the Euro and World Cup. It is good if he is rated now though.

Do people think Bastian Schweinsteiger is overrated or underrated?

D'Agger

Under Rated:

Jagielka
Brunt
Modric
Ramires
Dawson
Tiote - especially this man, he's been outstanding for NUFC all season

Pinturicchio

elefant wrote: »

I wonder how many people know that though, and he wasn't even in the squad for the WC (even though he was in better form last season than this).

In fairness though, Maradona was their manager then.

davyjose

Warper wrote: »

Argentina are currently building their team around him.

I've hardly seen this guy play. Usually i would refrain from making a judgement in this situation. But in this case i can confidently say ... he's nowhere near their best player, nor the guy they should build their team around.

Argentina's general lack of appreciation for Messi is just horrible. Do they still (mockingly) label him "the Catalan"?

Warper

davyjose wrote: »

I've hardly seen this guy play. Usually i would refrain from making a judgement in this situation. But in this case i can confidently say ... he's nowhere near their best player, nor the guy they should build their team around.

Argentina's general lack of appreciation for Messi is just horrible. Do they still (mockingly) label him "the Catalan"?

Tbh i havnt seen him play much either but he is extremely highly regarded. He is still only 22.

Over-rated - Edin Dzeko, not impressed with him at all and looks a poor signing for City.
Also Ballotelli - looks a nightmare guy to manage. Great talent but looks destined to go from club to club. Maybe not overrated as everyone knows this.
Gary Cahill for Bolton looks over-rated too, defo not worth the 20m that is being bandies about
Also Rodwell of Everton is over-rated, again not worth the 20m pricetag

Fuhrer

Warper wrote: »

Also Rodwell of Everton is over-rated, again not worth the 20m pricetag

I cant even tell what position hes supposed to play.

NukaCola

spiralism wrote: »

Andy Carroll: all he can do is head the ball, score tap ins or hold up the ball

Ya.....your spot on :rolleyes:

smokedeels

blue-army wrote: »

overrated:
Rafael

I'll admit United fans go on about him quite a bit, but I feel he's underrated if anything by non-United fans, people bang on about Martin Kelly and Onuoha more than him despite Raf playing at a higher level.

Neville and Coleman got so much praise when they kept Bale quiet, nobody said a word when Rafael did the same.

He'll be the best right back in England in the next few years, I'm convinced.

elefant

davyjose wrote: »

I've hardly seen this guy play. Usually i would refrain from making a judgement in this situation. But in this case i can confidently say ... he's nowhere near their best player, nor the guy they should build their team around.

Argentina's general lack of appreciation for Messi is just horrible. Do they still (mockingly) label him "the Catalan"?

Well, I guess you can't really build a team around a winger. Messi would obviously be the go-to guy, but realistically I'd reckon it would have to be a central player to make a team tick.

And I've seen Banega a lot, and on his game I can only think of Xavi and Iniesta as central mids I'd rather have ahead of him. (Although I'm biased as a Valencia fan )

Paully D

smokedeels wrote: »

I'll admit United fans go on about him quite a bit, but I feel he's underrated if anything by non-United fans, people bang on about Martin Kelly and Onuoha more than him despite Raf playing at a higher level.

Neville and Coleman got so much praise when they kept Bale quiet, nobody said a word when Rafael did the same.

He'll be the best right back in England in the next few years, I'm convinced.

No-one gave Onouha any praise when he did the same thing either though.

Bodhisopha

A couple of points. Messi is not a winger and Argentina are building their team around him.

starviewadams

Over: New Ronaldo

Under: Fat Ronaldo

Insane Rambling

Brazilian (fat) Ronaldo had a Footballs Greatest programme made about him.... Underrated alright!

superfrank

Paully D wrote: »

No-one gave Onouha any praise when he did the same thing either though.

No one gave Paulo Fierrera any praise when he did the same also!

Predalien

superfrank wrote: »

No one gave Paulo Fierrera any praise when he did the same also!

Gareth Bale must be overrated, seems most right backs have no problem keeping him quiet!

Predalien

PaulieC wrote: »

Under Rated:

Tiote - especially this man, he's been outstanding for NUFC all season

Really agree with this one, very surprised he hasn't been linked with a bigger club. He's a player I think could help solve Man Utd's midfield problems.

Over rated:

Gareth Barry (his photo would be in the dictionary beside "over rated footballer)
James Milner
Gareth Bale
Pique (he's good but he's nowhere near as good without Puyol beside him)
Vidic (I think he's great, but I think that Rio is better, whereas most make out that Vidic carries Rio)
Terry
Charlie Adam


Under rated:

Puyol
Rio
Xavi until very recently. He's always been this good.
Antonio Valencia
Dirk Kuyt
Victor Valdes

Liam O

starviewadams wrote: »

Over: New Ronaldo

Under: Fat Ronaldo

at least you gave reasons why you think a player who has been borderline the best player in the world and yet I've read on here that he is not fit to lace Messi's boots is overrated.

Also good reasons on how a player who is sometimes rated the best of all time by people is underrated

amiable

Deleted User wrote: »

Vidic (I think he's great, but I think that Rio is better, whereas most make out that Vidic carries Rio)

Taxi

SlickRic

amiable wrote: »

Taxi

Rio is better.

he's just not fit long enough anymore.

both are exceptional.

Vidic gets the headlines because he's the 'front post defender', he's the one who gets his head on everything, whereas Rio can do that sort of thing, while also is a master organiser of the defence. he also adds the dimension of being able to comfortably bring the ball into midfield.

watch Utd with Rio, and watch them without. you'll see a marked difference, especially in games where they come under pressure.

amiable

amiable wrote: »

Taxi

I'm not in any way saying Vidic isn't a brilliant player, I think he's excellent, and it's well acknowledged, but he's made out to be the heart and soul of Uniteds defence when:

SlickRic wrote: »

Rio is better.

he's just not fit long enough anymore.

both are exceptional.

Vidic gets the headlines because he's the 'front post defender', he's the one who gets his head on everything, whereas Rio can do that sort of thing, while also is a master organiser of the defence. he also adds the dimension of being able to comfortably bring the ball into midfield.

watch Utd with Rio, and watch them without. you'll see a marked difference, especially in games where they come under pressure.

amiable

SlickRic wrote: »

Rio is better.

he's just not fit long enough anymore.

both are exceptional.

Vidic gets the headlines because he's the 'front post defender', he's the one who gets his head on everything, whereas Rio can do that sort of thing, while also is a master organiser of the defence. he also adds the dimension of being able to comfortably bring the ball into midfield.

watch Utd with Rio, and watch them without. you'll see a marked difference, especially in games where they come under pressure.

Vidic is head and shoulders better than Rio and that has nothing to do with the thread Slick

It was stated that Vidic is over rated.
Absolute tripe imo.
Vidic is the best centre back in England bar none imo.
I think he's actually under rated cos he's serbian and not english.

You say watch United with and without Rio. I say do the same with Vidic and see them at Anfield a few weeks ago.

amiable

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not in any way saying Vidic isn't a brilliant player, I think he's excellent, and it's well acknowledged, but he's made out to be the heart and soul of Uniteds defence when:

So you say he's brilliant but over rated. Hmmmm!

No need to quote Slickric and not comment on it.

amiable

amiable wrote: »

Vidic is head and shoulders better than Rio and that has nothing to do with the thread Slick

It was stated that Vidic is over rated.
Absolute tripe imo.
Vidic is the best centre back in England bar none imo.
I think he's actually under rated cos he's serbian and not english.

You say watch United with and without Rio. I say do the same with Vidic and see them at Anfield a few weeks ago.

LOL, head and shoulders eh? No wonder you misunderstood my point. Take a moment, breathe, and re read what I'm saying. I'm saying in terms of how the United defence is rated, Vidic is over rated in the sense that he is seen as the best defender there, when he isn't. Much like Carvalho is better than Terry but Terry gets noticed more, it's because they read the game better and cut things out earlier on instead of having to make last ditch tackles.

Was Rio playing at Anfield?

I recall watching United hold Barca out in 2008 without Vidic, one of the best performances I've ever seen, and it was from Rio.

I'm a United fan by the way.

amiable

amiable wrote: »

So you say he's brilliant but over rated. Hmmmm!

No need to quote Slickric and not comment on it.

Yes. Can you not comprehend such a thing? Ok I'll simplicy it, just for you.

Players can be brilliant but be over rated (for example say if somebody told you that van Persie, Suarez, van Nistelrooy etc were "the best striker of all time" - they're not. But, they are or were 3 brilliant players.

Plain and simple, the Vidic/Rio partnership is rightly seen as awesome, however I think it is wrongly seen to be a result of Vidic being some kind of Superman. They compliment each other very well, but in my opinion Rio doesn't get enough of the credit and Vidic gets too much, hence, over rated. Over rated does not mean poor. You need to separate the 2 from your definition there.

I quoted Slick as he said exactly what I would have said so no need to repeat it.

amiable

Deleted User wrote: »

LOL, head and shoulders eh? No wonder you misunderstood my point. Take a moment, breathe, and re read what I'm saying. I'm saying in terms of how the United defence is rated, Vidic is over rated in the sense that he is seen as the best defender there, when he isn't. Much like Carvalho is better than Terry but Terry gets noticed more, it's because they read the game better and cut things out earlier on instead of having to make last ditch tackles.

Was Rio playing at Anfield?

I recall watching United hold Barca out in 2008 without Vidic, one of the best performances I've ever seen, and it was from Rio.

I'm a United fan by the way.

Maybe you should take a leaf out of your own book and breathe and re read my posts.

Was Rio playing the weeks before Anfield and the weeks after?
Was Vidic?

I couldn't give a rats arse who you support.
Nothing to do with the fact you say Vidic is over rated. Tripe imo. Best centre back in England by a long way.

See you are presuming things about me.
Presuming i misunderstood your point.

Over:

Walcott
Hart

Under:

Lucas (although not by proper Liverpool fans anymore)
Carragher (by some pool fans)
Phil Neville

amiable

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes. Can you not comprehend such a thing? Ok I'll simplicy it, just for you.

Players can be brilliant but be over rated (for example say if somebody told you that van Persie, Suarez, van Nistelrooy etc were "the best striker of all time" - they're not. But, they are or were 3 brilliant players.

Plain and simple, the Vidic/Rio partnership is rightly seen as awesome, however I think it is wrongly seen to be a result of Vidic being some kind of Superman. They compliment each other very well, but in my opinion Rio doesn't get enough of the credit and Vidic gets too much, hence, over rated. Over rated does not mean poor. You need to separate the 2 from your definition there.

I quoted Slick as he said exactly what I would have said so no need to repeat it.

Couldn't disagree with you more.

Thanks for the english lesson.

I never once said over rated means poor.

Can you show me where i said that?

And you give me the english lesson.

Very good

amiable

amiable wrote: »

Maybe you should take a leaf out of your own book and breathe and re read my posts.

Was Rio playing the weeks before Anfield and the weeks after?
Was Vidic?

I couldn't give a rats arse who you support.
Nothing to do with the fact you say Vidic is over rated. Tripe imo. Best centre back in England by a long way.

See you are presuming things about me.
Presuming i misunderstood your point.

I'm not presuming anything. It's quite clear you either misunderstood my point or associate over rated with being sh*te. Trying to get aggressive and jump down my throat about it doesn't change that, it's still quite clear.

I'M NOT SAYING VIDIC IS ANYTHING OTHER THAN GREAT and that BEING OVERRATED DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN'T BE GREAT. It simply means people get a little carried away. I know why they do, Vidic does some amazing things, but he has his clanger moments (as does Rio) and can be very flaky. Rio gets that said of him a lot, Vidic gets away with it altogether unless the name "Fernando Torres" is mentioned.

amiable

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not presuming anything. It's quite clear you either misunderstood my point or associate over rated with being sh*te. Trying to get aggressive and jump down my throat about it doesn't change that, it's still quite clear.

I'M NOT SAYING VIDIC IS ANYTHING OTHER THAN GREAT and that BEING OVERRATED DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN'T BE GREAT. It simply means people get a little carried away. I know why they do, Vidic does some amazing things, but he has his clanger moments (as does Rio) and can be very flaky. Rio gets that said of him a lot, Vidic gets away with it altogether unless the name "Fernando Torres" is mentioned.

Put down the shovel

amiable

amiable wrote: »

Put down the shovel

Another well constructed and well argued point. Bravo.

amiable wrote: »

Couldn't disagree with you more.

Thanks for the english lesson.

I never once said over rated means poor.

Can you show me where i said that?

And you give me the english lesson.

Very good

Fair enough. We'll agree to disagree so. I've given you reasons, your retort is to say that it's tripe and then reference a game where NEITHER of them were playing as some kind of conclusive proof that one is better than the other! I bid you adieu!

amiable

Deleted User wrote: »

Another well constructed and well argued point. Bravo.



Fair enough. We'll agree to disagree so. I've given you reasons, your retort is to say that it's tripe and then reference a game where NEITHER of them were playing as some kind of conclusive proof that one is better than the other! I bid you adieu!

No my retort was that vidic had the defence playing well before and after anfield but you ignored that.
Maybe its you that need the english lesson.

Cheerio

bradlente

Suprised VDV has been on a few peoples overated list here,Has been Spurs best player this season imo and in a new league.

Overated-Garth Barry,Robinho,Frank Ribery,
Glen Johnson

Underated-Chris Brunt,Lucas,Jose Jurado,Gregory Van der Wiel

SlickRic

ok people, calm down.

---

look, amiable, this is a place for reasoned discussion. all you've continuously said is Vidic is miles better than Rio, without explaining how.

you can rate him higher certainly, as you're entitled to your opinion, and you may prefer a certain style of defending. that's fine.

but to call Vidic head and shoulders above Rio, and to tell someone to basically get a taxi for suggesting Rio is the better partner, is going to provoke debate.

that's an opinion, just like yours about Vidic is an opinion.

the point that, within that partnership, Vidic is overrated is valid. he's a phenomenal defender, nobody's saying any different, but in many people's opinion, including mine, he gets way too much credit within that partnership at times, and Rio regularly gets classed as being 'carried' and such, when that is bollocks.

amiable

SlickRic wrote: »

ok people, calm down.

---

look, amiable, this is a place for reasoned discussion. all you've continuously said is Vidic is miles better than Rio, without explaining how.

you can rate him higher certainly, as you're entitled to your opinion, and you may prefer a certain style of defending. that's fine.

but to call Vidic head and shoulders above Rio, and to tell someone to basically get a taxi for suggesting Rio is the better partner, is going to provoke debate.

that's an opinion, just like yours about Vidic is an opinion.

the point that, within that partnership, Vidic is overrated is valid. he's a phenomenal defender, nobody's saying any different, but in many people's opinion, including mine, he gets way too much credit within that partnership at times, and Rio regularly gets classed as being 'carried' and such, when that is bollocks.

So your attempt at reasoned discussion is to say something is bollocks but i get told off for saying taxi.
Fair enough slick
I'll know not to disagree with you again

I made a case and it was overlooked.

SlickRic

Christ Almighty.

well, from what i can tell, your reasoned discussion is that Vidic is head and shoulders above Rio, and the reason he's not seen as that is because he's not English...but that makes no sense as the argument is that Vidic is considered better, and we're saying he's not, and that Vidic is given too much credit in that partnership.

i've dealt with that point, as has Neil.

you respond by calling the notion that Rio might be better as tripe.

you haven't engaged with the argument about Rio's organisational skills, or his leadership, or his ability to join the midfield.

you simply say Vidic is better.

you also say...'well he had the defence playing well before and after Anfield'...that's true. not one person denies that. so i don't know why you're using that. that game was used as an example of where Rio's skills might have been useful. that's all.

you seem to think we're saying Vidic isn't great, and don't seem to be able to grasp the fact that that's not even close to what's being said. you're choosing to believe that, and using it to ridicule our argument, which is simply, that Vidic gets an awful lot of credit for the partnership, which he does. and Rio gets labelled as 'carried' a lot of the time, and labelled as the lesser defender, just because he's not the one putting in last minute blocks, and defending the front post all the time.

that's because Rio is about interceptions, organisation etc.

if you remember Liverpool's Carragher/Hyypia partnership; IMO, Hyypia is the better defender, for similar reasons.

Vidic - brilliant.
Rio - brilliant.
Vidic/Rio partnership - brilliant.

the only point we're making is that Vidic gets the majority of plaudits for the reasons outlined above.

reasoned enough for you?!

NeoKubrick

The premise of the thread is ridiculous. To argue that a player is overrated or underrated, you have to first prove that the player is rated to argue that he is overrated or is not rated to argue that he is underrated. So few if any posters have established either to claim that a player is overrated or underrated. No more fitting end to this thread than this post which sums up the majority of posters' citing players that they have probably watched once or twice and ignoring the statistics:

SlickRic wrote: »

Rio is better.

he's just not fit long enough anymore.

both are exceptional.

Vidic gets the headlines because he's the 'front post defender', he's the one who gets his head on everything, whereas Rio can do that sort of thing, while also is a master organiser of the defence. he also adds the dimension of being able to comfortably bring the ball into midfield.

watch Utd with Rio, and watch them without. you'll see a marked difference, especially in games where they come under pressure.

According to the statistics from here and here and I have excluded national fixtures, Vidic has lost 20 games out of 187 games since 23/09/06 (data ends for Vidic) and Ferdinand, 18 out of 148 games which is 10.695% loss percentage for Vidic and 12.162%, for Ferdinand. So, where do you see the marked difference if it is as you claimed not in the "headlines", because it is certainly not in the statistics and it is certainly not on the football pitch?

Ferdinand is a media darling and that can only explain why someone would think Ferdinand is better than Vidic at playing football and being a leader. He is a crass individual, too: kicking a female steward, leathering the ball at his own fans, pointing the blame at any teammate when United concede, and hogging goal celebrations to get his mug in the morning papers.

amiable

SlickRic wrote: »

Christ Almighty.

well, from what i can tell, your reasoned discussion is that Vidic is head and shoulders above Rio, and the reason he's not seen as that is because he's not English...but that makes no sense as the argument is that Vidic is considered better, and we're saying he's not, and that Vidic is given too much credit in that partnership.

i've dealt with that point, as has Neil.

you respond by calling the notion that Rio might be better as tripe.

you haven't engaged with the argument about Rio's organisational skills, or his leadership, or his ability to join the midfield.

you simply say Vidic is better.

you also say...'well he had the defence playing well before and after Anfield'...that's true. not one person denies that. so i don't know why you're using that. that game was used as an example of where Rio's skills might have been useful. that's all.

you seem to think we're saying Vidic isn't great, and don't seem to be able to grasp the fact that that's not even close to what's being said. you're choosing to believe that, and using it to ridicule our argument, which is simply, that Vidic gets an awful lot of credit for the partnership, which he does. and Rio gets labelled as 'carried' a lot of the time, and labelled as the lesser defender, just because he's not the one putting in last minute blocks, and defending the front post all the time.

that's because Rio is about interceptions, organisation etc.

if you remember Liverpool's Carragher/Hyypia partnership; IMO, Hyypia is the better defender, for similar reasons.

Vidic - brilliant.
Rio - brilliant.
Vidic/Rio partnership - brilliant.

the only point we're making is that Vidic gets the majority of plaudits for the reasons outlined above.

reasoned enough for you?!

See my above post. I know not to disagree with you

smokedeels

starviewadams wrote: »

Over: New Ronaldo

Under: Fat Ronaldo

provocative post is provocative

Liam O

NeoKubrick wrote: »

The premise of the thread is ridiculous. To argue that a player is overrated or underrated, you have to first prove that the player is rated to argue that he is overrated or is not rated to argue that he is underrated. So few if any posters have established either to claim that a player is overrated or underrated. No more fitting end to this thread than this post which sums up the majority of posters' citing players that they have probably watched once or twice and ignoring the statistics:



According to the statistics from here and here and I have excluded national fixtures, Vidic has lost 20 games out of 187 games since 23/09/06 (data ends for Vidic) and Ferdinand, 18 out of 148 games which is 10.695% loss percentage for Vidic and 12.162%, for Ferdinand. So, where do you see the marked difference if it is as you claimed not in the "headlines", because it is certainly not in the statistics and it is certainly not on the football pitch?

Ferdinand is a media darling and that can only explain why someone would think Ferdinand is better than Vidic at playing football and being a leader. He is a crass individual, too: kicking a female steward, leathering the ball at his own fans, pointing the blame at any teammate when United concede, and hogging goal celebrations to get his mug in the morning papers.

Vidic plays more run of the mill games than Rio, who will more often than not be saved if possible for the bigger games as we are seeing right now with him not playing at the weekend. Rio was the standout defender last week against Chelsea and really helps Vidic when he gets caught out of position which is a lot more often than you'd think.

101001

Jaysis... I've obviously no idea who's over rated or not... is vidic seen by the general populous as the best cb in the Rio/vidic pairing?

I wouldve assumed that Rio was by far and away the better CB. And for no other reason than vidic gets caught out far more often than Rio.

Having said that vidic is having a good season and his name is being put about for player of the year etc. But that's a year in a career.

I would've assumed people had rated Rio and vidic appropriately. Who'da thunk it

Raskolnikov

Warper wrote: »

Over-rated - Edin Dzeko, not impressed with him at all and looks a poor signing for City.

Too early to say. He joined City when they hit a slump and is playing in a formation that doesn't suit him.

amiable

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Too early to say. He joined City when they hit a slump and is playing in a formation that doesn't suit him.

Agreed. I still think he could be very good but he does need to get the finger out next season

Paully D

superfrank wrote: »

No one gave Paulo Fierrera any praise when he did the same also!

We'll throw Bale onto the overrated list so :pac:

Dempsey

Overrated

Gareth Bale - He has improved alot but I think all these niggling injuries wont stop and are going to wreck him. He certainly hasnt been consistent.

Ibrahimovic - Has bottled far too many big matches where he was expected to be the difference.

Underrated
Nani - How Bale was nominated for POTY over him is a mystery.

Ramires - He's taking alot of flak at Chelsea that isnt merited.

Izaguirre & Kayal - Scream bias at me but they have been consistently standout performers for Celtic all season which is reflected in the attention from Arsenal, Man United, Liverpool + co. They'll have a job holding onto them during the summer.

kraggy

Overated:

Van Persie - can't understand why he is admired by so many.
Ribery - decent but not world class

Underated:

Song
Phil Neville

Predalien

I'd consider Djourou to be underrated, he was excellent for Arsenal until his injury this season, was starting to look very composed and was one of their best players this season.

shadowcomplex

most underated player in the ESL today ji sung park

Morzadec

Comparing similar positions....

Overrated - Mascherano
Underrated - Lass Diarra

Even more so after tonight, was very impressed with Diarra. Mascherano is widely considered as the best 'destroyer' in the world, and while he's good, I think his importance is often overrated. A lot of Liverpool fans always overrated him, I remember the summer of 09, people saying that they would rather Alonso leave than Masch! A great player to have in big-games against strong opposition, but the same can be said of Lucas in fairness.

Also speaking of Alonso,

Underrated - Alonso

Ok he is obviously very highly rated by most, but for me not enough! He is unmatched by anyone in World Football at what he does imo (deep lying playmaker). He would make it into a World XI imo and was probably the most important player at Liverpool during our peak and is the one player Real would really struggle most without now.

I still maintain his leaving was the number one reason for Liverpool/Rafa's rapid decline