Mods deleting posts without explaination.

Gunsfortoys

I have noticed that some of my posts have been getting deleted without explaination.

I am no fan of AH mods in general but this is a new low. It has happened to me in a good few threads so far and even more so recently.

Needless to say I think it is a bit of out of order.

I posted "Cool story bro" (standard jokey AH response) in this thread.


Has anyone else come across this?

twinQuins

Without wishing to presume too much, have you considered that those jokes are getting out of hand?
Deleting off-topic posts is nothing new and certainly there is some leeway given but at this stage the jokes are becoming overwrought and needlessly brought onto threads.

As well as that "cool story bro" is, you must admit, rather dismissive. Sure if it's in reply to something outlandish I get it but it's becoming more ubiquitous than that.

Also, as always, I'd suggest if you've an issue with mod actions you might try just asking them, via PM, why they've done so.

Gordon

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

I have noticed that some of my posts have been getting deleted without explaination.

I am no fan of AH mods in general but this is a new low. It has happened to me in a good few threads so far and even more so recently.

Needless to say I think it is a bit of out of order.

I posted "Cool story bro" (standard jokey AH response) in this thread.


Has anyone else come across this?

Cool story bro!

Gunsfortoys

twinQuins wrote: »

Without wishing to presume too much, have you considered that those jokes are getting out of hand?
Deleting off-topic posts is nothing new and certainly there is some leeway given but at this stage the jokes are becoming overwrought and needlessly brought onto threads.

As well as that "cool story bro" is, you must admit, rather dismissive. Sure if it's in reply to something outlandish I get it but it's becoming more ubiquitous than that.

Also, as always, I'd suggest if you've an issue with mod actions you might try just asking them, via PM, why they've done so.

How can I PM if I don't know which mod did it?

Also I have seen a lot worse posted today, such as a second post saying "lol".

Should that post not be deleted?

It is after hours as well so posts like that are expected.

I also see our well to do admins can post these "outlandish" statements but yet regular posters are obviously flaming or being dismissive.

My point is that an explanation or at least a notice that the post has been deleted would be great!

A perfect example will be to see if the great Gordons "Cool story bro" post will be deleted as well. I doubt it.

Gordon

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

I also see our well to do admins can post these "outlandish" statements but yet regular posters are obviously flaming or being dismissive.

I am not an admin, I stepped down a while ago but the tag hasn't been removed

Gunsfortoys

Gordon wrote: »

I am not an admin, I stepped down a while ago but the tag hasn't been removed

Cool story bro!

Darragh

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

How can I PM if I don't know which mod did it?


My point is that an explanation or at least a notice that the post has been deleted would be great!

I agree with you on this but from a technical point of view it's a bit of a headache - it's not built into vBulletin so it's not something we can just switch on.

It is, however, something I have on my list to get sorted. Not just to get a "No, we can't do that" answer for you, but a "Here's how we're going to do it". It will take a while.

Gunsfortoys

Darragh wrote: »

I agree with you on this but from a technical point of view it's a bit of a headache - it's not built into vBulletin so it's not something we can just switch on.

It is, however, something I have on my list to get sorted. Not just to get a "No, we can't do that" answer for you, but a "Here's how we're going to do it". It will take a while.

Can you also look into my deleted posts Darragh? I have an idea of which mod it is but if you could send me a PM or something on who and why that would be great.

It also seems that some people are getting away with posting these types of answers, but posters like myself (who a certain mod may have a gripe with) can't.

El Weirdo

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

How can I PM if I don't know which mod did it?

I'm sure if you PM any of the mods they would be able to help you out. I've had to do it before to see why one of my posts was deleted. Even if its not the one you PM, they can see who it was as they have access to that info.

dr.bollocko

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=63136207&postcount=10
It's in the charter.

It's simpler to have this as a rule in the charter than deleting and PMing absolutely everyone all the time. It's there, it's part of what we do to improve threads by removing pointless non-statements like yours.

It's not ideal that we can't have that level of communication all of the time however time constraints and real life get in the way.
Now what can we do to improve your negative perception of moderators of after hours?

Gunsfortoys

dr.bollocko wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=63136207&postcount=10
It's in the charter.
It's simpler to have this as a rule in the charter than deleting and PMing absolutely everyone all the time. It's there, it's part of what we do to improve threads by removing pointless non-statements like yours.
It's not ideal that we can't have that level of communication all of the time however time constraints and real life get in the way.
Now what can we do to improve your negative perception of moderators of after hours?

Pointless non-statements are part and parcel of after hours I thought?

I have seen you post many a "cool story bro" statement in your years as AH moderator yet I don't see your posts being deleted.

All I am asking is for the reason and who deleted my posts as it is one rule for some and another for others.

You can improve my negative perception by following your own rules once in a while and enforcing them on everyone and not just people who you don't seem to agree with. Now that is not necessarily just you, but plenty of others.

dr.bollocko

OK. This has gotten a little out of hand now. We are talking about a removal of a non-statement as per the link I showed you in the charter.
There is no personal vendetta against you. That's point one. I don't know where you came to that conclusion but that is not the case.

Secondly it was not me who removed your post so you can stall that digger. It is removed where it's seen. There are many pointless meme posts removed since I started moderating. It began for me with "yore ma" and moved to removing other repetitive BS posts such as "cool story bro" as the first reply to a thread. It exploded up a while ago and has since More recently "Blast X with piss" is being removed for the same reason. Where we see them, or where a moderator is bothered enough to remove it. One person thinks its funny the odd time, and occasionally, as seen in the context of this thread, even these things can be humorous. But people posting it constantly for a while there as a first reply to a new thread and it became repetitive pointless and dumb. These things are pretty fluid. So your "standard jokey AH response" is at best unhelpful, dismissive, repetitive and a non-post. It doesn't add anything to the discussion at all in this instance. All it does is add one post to your post count.

In the instances where it is posted above (in this thread) it is humorous in the light of your thread complaining about your post being removed. Of course this is in feedback and not in after hours so what is a rule in one forum may not cross through to other forums so your thoughts on double standards are also incorrect.

So I don't think you're understanding the nature of the rule. It is not "one rule for some and another for others" however there are doubtless numerous unhelpful dismissive non-statements like the one you posted which could / should have been deleted but were missed or not noticed.

I try to avoid posting pointless non-statements myself where possible but if you do see me in engaging in any of it please drop me a PM and report the post and I will be sure to moderate myself to this standard.

I have seen you post many a "cool story bro" statement in your years as AH moderator yet I don't see your posts being deleted.

I have attempted to search after hours for incidents where I posted "cool story bro" and could not find one result myself however that could be because the search sucks. It doesn't sound like me. But then I do terrible things when I drink.

El Weirdo

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

Pointless non-statements are part and parcel of after hours I thought?

I have seen you post many a "cool story bro" statement in your years as AH moderator yet I don't see your posts being deleted.

All I am asking is for the reason and who deleted my posts as it is one rule for some and another for others.

You can improve my negative perception by following your own rules once in a while and enforcing them on everyone and not just people who you don't seem to agree with. Now that is not necessarily just you, but plenty of others.

I think that question was answered here:

twinQuins wrote: »

As well as that "cool story bro" is, you must admit, rather dismissive. Sure if it's in reply to something outlandish I get it but it's becoming more ubiquitous than that.

The OP of that particular thread posted (some may say foolishly) in AH with what seemed to be a genuine request. I don't see the issue with your post being deleted. I'd expect other tired boards memes such as "blast it with piss" and "yore ma" to be treated the same in that thread.

Not the time or the place, if you will.

Edit: What Dr. B said.

Gunsfortoys

El Weirdo wrote: »

I think that question was answered here:



The OP of that particular thread posted (some may say foolishly) in AH with what seemed to be a genuine request. I don't see the issue with your post being deleted. I'd expect other tired boards memes such as "blast it with piss" and "yore ma" to be treated the same in that thread.

Not the time or the place, if you will.

Right I agree with you there, but in that case would you not agree that posts such as "Change title to Looking for a Ride to generate more interest." aren't helpful? That is why I am posting the question here.

Also I understand that it may not be necessary to PM someone when you delete he/shes post (I am a fan of common courtesy you see) but when someone requests it I think it is fair to tell them.

Dr.bollocko can type and quote AH charter all he wants but the issue is that other posters got away with it while my posts are deleted.

I am sure not the only one that has commented on this.

El Weirdo

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

Right I agree with you there, but in that case would you not agree that posts such as "Change title to Looking for a Ride to generate more interest." aren't helpful? That is why I am posting the question here.

But that isn't one of the tired old phrases. That is an original "AH response".

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

Also I understand that it may not be necessary to PM someone when you delete he/shes post (I am a fan of common courtesy you see) but when someone requests it I think it is fair to tell them.

Who did you PM to request this information from? How does the mod who deleted your post know that you want this information when you haven't PMd them?

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

Dr.bollocko can type and quote AH charter all he wants but the issue is that other posters got away with it while my posts are deleted.

Got away with what? If you have a problem with a post, report it.

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

I am sure not the only one that has commented on this.

I have seen people complain about deleted posts before, yes.

dr.bollocko

This is specific to the usage of the repetitive and overused phrases.

So dragging in other posts is again not getting the point of the rule I posted a link to earlier which you seem so annoyed by.
This list grows regularly as more dumb non-statements show up or make their way from 4chan or wherever to after hours.
As in the charter you don't want me to quote because it indicates why your pointless and repetitive non-statement was removed, some examples are listed.

+1, yore ma, cool story bro, blast x with piss." That sort of thing. Tired old phrases.

These are the specific phrases we wish to remove because they spread and drag threads down right across the board. So what you'd be looking for would be other incidents where "cool story bro" or "yore ma" or similar over-used pointless and annoying non-statements were posted as a pointless and repetitive non-reply to a thread and wasn't removed. And the result will most likely be the removal of that post containing these meme phrases specifically.

It's not really my preference that a minority of AH posters delight in being unhelpful when people mistakenly post there looking for genuine answers to questions and instead get pointless repetetive unhelpful posts. Where it's seen we either move or lock. However that is the fluid nature of AH and a problem I've been trying to address for a while. A specific but separate issue best dealt with pro-actively with useful examples etc. But this is getting off topic and not directly responding to the problem you're querying here.

The specific problem here is the over-use of the pointless( it's still pointless) and repetitive (it's also still repetitive) usage of non-statements as a first reply. The example in this case being "cool story bro" which was posted in a critical mass of threads so as to make it as annoying as "yore ma" or "+1". The fact that it was unhelpful and dismissive is an issue I'll grant you. The problem here and reason for action being taken is that it is an over-used meme style reply which began to appear on every thread because for some reason people thought it was humorous to do so.

The majority of AH posters became annoyed by it being used as a first reply to every other thread (at least that is my perception and I believe that is accurate however there is no absolute measure I can point to to prove this statement.)

twinQuins

dr.bollocko wrote: »

[...]One person thinks its funny the odd time, and occasionally, as seen in the context of this thread, even these things can be humorous.[...]

I really like this because I think Dr. B's made a great point here: The key is context - sometimes it can be funny but most of the time it's just randomly used without having any bearing on what's been said.

In such a case it's not one user or a group of users being picked on; if a group of users are repetitively using these memes then yes I can see how they might feel that way but it's simply a case of them being the worst offenders.
Of course, there are going to be cases where other, unhelpful, posts go unnoticed but that's just a case of mods not being able to see every post in every thread. That being the case, it falls back to users simply not availing of the report post function.

If you really wanted to, you could read into that as being singled out but honestly if it's a case of regularly breaching the guidelines the fault lies squarely with yourself.
And I mean "you" in the general sense, not you specifically.

Gunsfortoys

I could sit here and argue my case until I am blue in the face but when you have people constantly posting "use the report button" or quoting the charter it becomes pointless.

All I will say that the report function is all but useless as anytime I have reported one, I never got a response back. I have seen other posters make this point too.

I am not surprised that mods in here keep quoting rules and saying "use the report button" like it is so black and white when it clearly isn't.

The main point of this thread was simply to get a reason why a post is deleted and the mod who deleted it.

I cannot see how this is an impossibility considering the amount of mods AH has.

Gunsfortoys

This thread can be closed now, I doubt it will get anywhere like the rest.

Micky Dolenz

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

I could sit here and argue my case until I am blue in the face but when you have people constantly posting "use the report button" or quoting the charter it becomes pointless.

All I will say that the report function is all but useless as anytime I have reported one, I never got a response back. I have seen other posters make this point too.

I am not surprised that mods in here keep quoting rules and saying "use the report button" like it is so black and white when it clearly isn't.

The main point of this thread was simply to get a reason why a post is deleted and the mod who deleted it.

I cannot see how this is an impossibility considering the amount of mods AH has.

The post was deleted by Rabies.
You have heard why it was closed.

This is something you will see or not see as the case may be across the forum. A few pointless phrases will be phased out, there has been a few examples cited here.

El_Dangeroso

OP are you sure this issue you have isn't more about having a chip on your shoulder about AH mods and needing to vent about it? If not then I wouldn't start a post with 'I'm no fan of AH mods', it automatically shows that you are biased and perhaps (even unconsciously) looking for something to become irritated or offended about.

Because I can't for the life of me figure out why someone would get upset about a stock-phrase post getting deleted. This wasn't your innermost thoughts, a dissertation on your opinion into which you poured your heart and soul. It was objectively unoriginal and added little to the discussion.

You seem upset that other people's similar posts haven't been deleted, well mods do not have the resources to read every post in AH, and sometimes, rarely, these phrases are apropos. In your case it wasn't. Most people would shrug this off and let it go. Some things aren't worth getting upset about and this is definitely one of them.

dr.bollocko

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

I could sit here and argue my case until I am blue in the face but when you have people constantly posting "use the report button" or quoting the charter it becomes pointless.

You asked why your post was removed. You received a link to the charter which contains guidelines for posting and also explains why your post has been removed. I don't see this as a pointless non-reply but an answer to your question. That's at least what I was attempting to do.

The questions next to be raised would be
Is it reasonable for a mod to do this... Should it be part of a moderator's remit? In many contexts I believe it is. A janitorial concern of cleaning up threads rather than a question of censorship.

Which specific phrases cross this line, how are they identified etc?
Roughly judged these would be non-replies which do not serve the thread and quickly become over-used and tired. With user feedback we'd seek out the next problem one and begin to act on it.

And also, as said above, context is key. Your post suffered from a lack of context in my opinion. It was also an example of an over-used and unfunny stock reply. Again, in my opinion. So it contravenes the charter we wrote and was appropriately removed.

Dudess

Gordon wrote: »

Cool story bro!

Why do that, Gordon? I'm not having a go at you personally, but it's not exactly going to improve people's negative perceptions (even if unwarranted) of mods/admins (I've read your post after - status is still there though so that's kinda moot).
It's going to be difficult to delete them all - there are still plenty of such posts knocking around, and if only some get deleted, that looks like preferential treatment. I know that's not true, but perception, even if not reality, should be taken into account also, in my opinion.
If "Blast x with piss", "Cool story bro", "Yore ma" are really needlessly used and you want to reduce them considerably, fully understood, but to ban them seems very heavyhanded. Sometimes they are funny - and sometimes part of the joke is their "contraband" nature.

GFT: "Change title to Looking for a Ride to generate more interest" isn't an overused meme, to be fair.

K-9

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

I could sit here and argue my case until I am blue in the face but when you have people constantly posting "use the report button" or quoting the charter it becomes pointless.

All I will say that the report function is all but useless as anytime I have reported one, I never got a response back. I have seen other posters make this point too.

I am not surprised that mods in here keep quoting rules and saying "use the report button" like it is so black and white when it clearly isn't.

The main point of this thread was simply to get a reason why a post is deleted and the mod who deleted it.

I cannot see how this is an impossibility considering the amount of mods AH has.

I find it is rare you will get a response back when you report as the sheer volume of reported posts just doesn't make it feasible, especially on busy fora like AH, Soccer and Politics. Usually you'll know it was acted by the user being banned, warned or an in thread warning given.

PS. I think some mods thank your post if you've posted in the thread as an acknowledgement.

El Weirdo

dr.bollocko wrote: »

The majority of AH posters became annoyed by it being used as a first reply to every other thread (at least that is my perception and I believe that is accurate however there is no absolute measure I can point to to prove this statement.)

I think that the amount of thanks that the response to this instance of the phrase gets gives a good indication of what the users of AH think of it.

Response here.

Gunsfortoys

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

OP are you sure this issue you have isn't more about having a chip on your shoulder about AH mods and needing to vent about it? If not then I wouldn't start a post with 'I'm no fan of AH mods', it automatically shows that you are biased and perhaps (even unconsciously) looking for something to become irritated or offended about.

Because I can't for the life of me figure out why someone would get upset about a stock-phrase post getting deleted. This wasn't your innermost thoughts, a dissertation on your opinion into which you poured your heart and soul. It was objectively unoriginal and added little to the discussion.

You seem upset that other people's similar posts haven't been deleted, well mods do not have the resources to read every post in AH, and sometimes, rarely, these phrases are apropos. In your case it wasn't. Most people would shrug this off and let it go. Some things aren't worth getting upset about and this is definitely one of them.

I agree it isn't something to get all wet about normally, but I have had about 10 posts of mine deleted over the last few weeks and I posted in here to request reasons why they are being deleted. This is also a feedback forum so you will find a lot of this type of content.

dr.bollocko wrote: »

You asked why your post was removed. You received a link to the charter which contains guidelines for posting and also explains why your post has been removed. I don't see this as a pointless non-reply but an answer to your question. That's at least what I was attempting to do.

The questions next to be raised would be
Is it reasonable for a mod to do this... Should it be part of a moderator's remit? In many contexts I believe it is. A janitorial concern of cleaning up threads rather than a question of censorship.

Which specific phrases cross this line, how are they identified etc?
Roughly judged these would be non-replies which do not serve the thread and quickly become over-used and tired. With user feedback we'd seek out the next problem one and begin to act on it.

And also, as said above, context is key. Your post suffered from a lack of context in my opinion. It was also an example of an over-used and unfunny stock reply. Again, in my opinion. So it contravenes the charter we wrote and was appropriately removed.

You are again, repeating yourself, I already told you that it isn't as black and white as reporting it as it gets lost between the hundreds of other reported posts. I am just saying, a reason why and the mod who deleted it would suffice. So that the poster can question it with the mod and therefore deal with it. Why does that seem so unreasonable?

Dudess wrote: »

Why do that, Gordon? I'm not having a go at you personally, but it's not exactly going to improve people's negative perceptions (even if unwarranted) of mods/admins (I've read your post after - status is still there though so that's kinda moot).
It's going to be difficult to delete them all - there are still plenty of such posts knocking around, and if only some get deleted, that looks like preferential treatment. I know that's not true, but perception, even if not reality, should be taken into account also, in my opinion.
If "Blast x with piss", "Cool story bro", "Yore ma" are really needlessly used and you want to reduce them considerably, fully understood, but to ban them seems very heavyhanded. Sometimes they are funny - and sometimes part of the joke is their "contraband" nature.

GFT: "Change title to Looking for a Ride to generate more interest" isn't an overused meme, to be fair.

I understand that and I wasn't complaining I was giving an example. The poster that replied said what I posted was "unhelpful" so I posted that as an example of other posters who were also unhelpful.

Gordon

Dudess wrote: »

Why do that, Gordon?

Why not?

twinQuins

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

I agree it isn't something to get all wet about normally, but I have had about 10 posts of mine deleted over the last few weeks and I posted in here to request reasons why they are being deleted. This is also a feedback forum so you will find a lot of this type of content.

I'll just say what I said at the start: PM the mod. As El Weirdo pointed out, they can all see deleted posts and know who deleted it so even if you don't PM the right mod they can direct you to the right one.

Issues between a single poster and mod (or mods) really doesn't seem like the kind of thing for Feedback.

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

I understand that and I wasn't complaining I was giving an example. The poster that replied said what I posted was "unhelpful" so I posted that as an example of other posters who were also unhelpful.

And again, context is king. There are times when such posts can be funny but it's when a single joke becomes overwrought or is completely out of place that the post should be actioned.
You're looking at this issue with too narrow a view.

And, frankly, I'm beginning to wonder if this is straying into rules lawyering territory so let me say this - the rules are deliberately worded as they are so the mods are afforded some discretion.
I've seen the issue come up previously and the answer is always the same - if you tie rules down people will pick them apart.

In this case I imagine that what constitutes a "pointless" post is left for the mods to decide as - being in the position they are - they're best able to make those judgement calls.

dr.bollocko

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

You are again, repeating yourself, I already told you that it isn't as black and white as reporting it as it gets lost between the hundreds of other reported posts. I am just saying, a reason why and the mod who deleted it would suffice. So that the poster can question it with the mod and therefore deal with it. Why does that seem so unreasonable?

I never said anywhere in the post you quoted that you should report a post or mentioned anything in that post about reporting posts. Nor did I state that your request was unreasonable. If you PM any mod after the fact about a specific post then they will know who the moderator who deleted it is and be able to furnish you with that information. It's not ideal. I would prefer if you knew automatically what the story was.

Perhaps if instead of deleting we posted a <snip> and a comment that could improve things. However tbh in terms of the aesthetics of reading threads I prefer the delete option when it comes to post count ++ing.

The link I posted to the charter guidelines is an attempt at explaining why the post was removed in this instance and why a response is not usually given in other similar instances. It's explicitally stated in the posting guidelines that nobody reads.

If you think I am repeating myself that is because I believe you are not reading my posts. I am willing to engage you and anybody else on this issue in a constructive fashion. There is scope for a wider discussion in the framework of this feedback thread.

If the repetition you recognise in my posts is annoying to you and it makes you not want to read any of my posts then maybe you can understand how others feel when they see a first post reply of "cool story bro" in after hours.

Bat Fasterd

Gordon wrote: »

Why not?

Because it reflects badly on the current Admins and mods.

giving people a rod etc etc

Gordon

Bat Fasterd wrote: »

Because it reflects badly on the current Admins and mods.

giving people a rod etc etc

How so?