Microchips - a little bit of info from me

tazwaz

hi, i got their number and oscar will soon be registered with fido.ie, thanks egar for pointing this out to us

ELF Group

Hello all, very interesting thread. There are however some errors which I would like to correct relating to Microchips beginning with 972.

First, I'll state my interest. I represent ELF Group Holdings Limited, a privately owned Irish company that has been in the Microchip business for over 12 years. We were the first organisation to introduce Microchips for equines on a large scale when we partnered with The Show Jumping Association of Ireland. Since then we have grown to be the largest supplier of this technology in Ireland and have expanded into foreign markets.

We currently sell Microchips starting with the Manufacturers code of 972 into the Irish Market. People have mentioned organisations such as the Irish Cob Society and Canine Ireland already in this thread. Yes, both these and many other animal organisations and Veterinary practices nationwide are customers of ours. We thank all of them for their business.

There is nothing unusual about the products we sell. They all conform to the relevant ISO standards and we were the first company authorised under the control of horses legislation.

Our credentials thus established, I want to deal with some of the inaccuracies thus far in this thread.

1. PetNet.ie is not owned or controlled by Canine Ireland. PetNet.ie is an independent website which operates in much the same way as EuroPetnet - except that it is a lot more economical for Registers to join, and is exclusively for Ireland. Keepers of registry's of Microchipped animals contribute their list of microchips to PetNet.ie for an annual fee of just 200.00 Euro. It was set up as a simple answer to the issue of the many registration organisations not having a place to centralise data. It is run on a 'cover costs' basis.

2."Also, if you happened to have a dog with 972. prefix PLEASE reg it with Fido as well as most rescues will use only the usual MC sites and NOT Canine Ireland"

Again, this is a misleading statement. There is no need to re-register your animal with Fido simply because its chip number starts with 972. We really have to divorce the manufacturers code on the chip with what organisations decide to do with registration details. If your animal is not registered on any database, then yes, we encourage you to register the animal to help ensure its return if it strays. There are a number of registers to choose from, and your choice should be based on the respective plusses or minuses of each.

3."hi, i have my guy registered with www.petnet.ie is that enough?
No, it isn't. Read my OP. Petnet is Canine Ireland, I presume your dog's MC starts with 927?"

I'm beginning to detect a trend here. Let me be quite emphatic.
PetNet.is IS NOT Canine Ireland.

Again, let me be quite emphatic: 972 IS NOT canine Ireland. Yes, this organisation, like many others throughout Ireland, purchases microchips from ELF Group, and we are very happy with the business.

4. "His chip no starts with 972. I going to ring fido tomor morn...why they can't combine all microchip sites or just have one is beyond me...I was one of the stupid people that presumed there was a national database... "

Your point is well made. There should be a central repository of data for microchipped animals. PetNet.ie is attempting to do this. Again, the annual fee is minimal, organisations can upload unlimited chip numbers, its not run on a profit basis (only covering costs).

5. "The 972 is a weird chip number connected with the Irish Cob Society and God knows how many dogs with that prefix have gone down in the pound or have been rehomed as the chips don't show up on regular databases. I had to search like a maniac to find it and it was only because I found an old thread on PI that things finally fell into place and connected with Canine Ireland. "

EGAR - It is my opinion that such comments may damage the reputation of our company and the products we sell. There is nothing "weird" about chip numbers beginning with the manufacturers code of '972'. It is in no way 'connected' with the Irish Cob Society other than that they have been a valued and respected customer of ours in the past, (and if we continue to provide good product at a reasonable price, then hopefully they will be a customer in the future. The same applied to Canine Ireland and the many other organisations who are good enough to place their business with us). These are Microchips that we sell, have been selling for quite some time, and will continue to sell into the future. They are ISO standard, are manufactured and assembled by a very reputable organisation. We have been in this business for quite some time and have survived and prospered because we supply good product at keen prices and are known for our honesty and impartiality.

I respectfully request that you retract your comments about our products being weird, and perhaps you might post in reply whether you continue to stand over what I believe to be inaccuracies in your posts, or whether you want to maintain your position.

dollydishmop

Interesting, only just caught up on this post...thanks to EGAR for bringing the subject up...and thanks for posting Mr Elf Holdings.

Would be fascinated to know, Mr. Elf Holdings, why when I contacted you 18 months or so ago, representing my local rescue, about a dog that had been handed in to us, with a chip number registered to your company, you refused to give me the contact details for the dog's owner.

And even when the gardai approached you, on our rescue's behalf, you still refused to give us the owner's details.

You repeatedly used the data protection act as your pitiful defence for your refusal to co-operate, yet that dog's owner no doubt gave you their contact details in good faith, so that, in such a situation, their contact details would be used to re-unite them with their beloved pet!

We did eventually re-unite the dog and owner, to huge smiles all round...but with absolutely no help from you or your microchip database!
The first thing we did, was re-register that dog, on the owner's behalf, with Fido.

My experience with your company is the SOLE reason I implore people to register with the preferred databases...Fido, Animark etc. Those databases do allow legitimate rescues complete access to the database, allowing stray/stolen dogs to be successfully reunited with their owners.

I am a trained micorchipper, I chip all the dogs for our rescue, for other rescues, and also for private pet owners...and I could, hand on heart, never recommend your database.

Reuniting that dog with its owners should have been a quick and seemless process. That is THE WHOLE POINT of microchipping pets. But trying to deal with your company was like repeatedly banging my head against a brick wall!

Shameful!

EGAR

ELF Group wrote: »

EGAR - It is my opinion that such comments may damage the reputation of our company and the products we sell. There is nothing "weird" about chip numbers beginning with the manufacturers code of '972'. It is in no way 'connected' with the Irish Cob Society other than that they have been a valued and respected customer of ours in the past, (and if we continue to provide good product at a reasonable price, then hopefully they will be a customer in the future. The same applied to Canine Ireland and the many other organisations who are good enough to place their business with us). These are Microchips that we sell, have been selling for quite some time, and will continue to sell into the future. They are ISO standard, are manufactured and assembled by a very reputable organisation. We have been in this business for quite some time and have survived and prospered because we supply good product at keen prices and are known for our honesty and impartiality.

I respectfully request that you retract your comments about our products being weird, and perhaps you might post in reply whether you continue to stand over what I believe to be inaccuracies in your posts, or whether you want to maintain your position.

I have not the slightest in intention of withdrawing any comment I made on this thread. On the contrary, I repeat: your chips are so hard to trace that dogs probably die in the pounds because of it. As for the 972 in no way being connected with the Irish Cob Society: http://www.irishcobsociety.com/ics_download_forms/DAFF_list_of_approved_orgs.pdf

:rolleyes:

Discodog

ELF Group wrote: »

I respectfully request that you retract your comments about our products being weird, and perhaps you might post in reply whether you continue to stand over what I believe to be inaccuracies in your posts, or whether you want to maintain your position.

This statement says more about your company than anything else. EGAR is very highly respected here & is known to be a person of the highest integrity. If she states here that she has had problems then the vast majority will believe & support her.

It seems a strange commercial decision to make this remark rather than thanking EGAR for highlighting a serious problem. Anyone with a basic knowledge of pet security would know that a database that only covers Ireland is pointless.

So instead of requesting retractions how about your company saying sorry & maybe making a donation to help EGAR in rescuing hundreds of dogs.

ELF Group

Guys, I'm giving up after this one.:)

I'm sure all of you are respected people, have integrity etc. I've made absolutely no comment to the contrary, and I have no idea who you are so cannot possibly have any pre conceived notions.

I have no axe to grind with anyone. I have no agenda or anything else other than a straight commercial one to point out factual inaccuracies. I have been upfront with the identity of our company.

I simply posted in order to correct inaccurate statements, and to defend the products we sell. No one can argue with the fact that the products are 100% ISO certified. There is nothing 'weird' about the numbering sequence -the 972 is simply an ICAR Manufacturers code unique to a manufacturer of Microchips - a system that all the manufacturers who sign up to ISO have in place.

In relation to the secondary contention about not helping someone reunite an animal - I simply made the point that it is not our policy to give out information over the phone - and our agreement with customers is that we contact them when an animal welfare organisation, vet, pound etc. report to us, so that they can then make contact in order to collect their animal.

For sure, criticise all you want, and honestly, we always listen to valid criticism, but when something is factually incorrect, surely you understand that commercially I must defend.

Apologies if anything has come across offensively (maybe I'm reading too much into the responses but it seems people are offended - may be I am wrong?), my only intention is to keep the record straight.

And with that I bow out!!:)

moving_home

Thanks a mil EGAR. Got sorted today with Fido and doggie is now registered with no problems. Rang the so-called "breeder" today and she just really angry and defensive. Tried to fob me off with saying that they were trying to do a good thing by MC'ing her at all until I said that to sell pups registered with IKC they had to be MC :rolleyes: got nowhere with her ...

Chris_Heilong

Thanks EGAR and everyone, got my dog registered, went down to the vet and explained the situaton, altough the receptionist seemed a little confussed at first she help me out and gave me a new reg code.:)

perri winkles

Hi guys,

Just wondering, we got our dogs from the DSPCA and they were chipped there. We were given a tag which had a number on it and a pin number so if anyone found them, they just had to ring the number and quote the pin.
Would it mean that my dogs are registered? NOthing was said about registering them. Are they registered with the DSPCA?

I have no idea!

Wisco

You can probably ring your local vets with the chip number and ask them to search for you, or ring the DSPCA and ask them what database their chips are registered in.

dollydishmop

perri winkles wrote: »

Hi guys,

Just wondering, we got our dogs from the DSPCA and they were chipped there. We were given a tag which had a number on it and a pin number so if anyone found them, they just had to ring the number and quote the pin.
Would it mean that my dogs are registered? NOthing was said about registering them. Are they registered with the DSPCA?

I have no idea!

Wisco wrote: »

ring the DSPCA and ask them what database their chips are registered in.

Hi Guys

The DSPCA run their own database, PetTrace...which is absolutely fine for your dogs to be registered on. It is searchable by the 2 main european databases, and accessible to legitimate rescues, dog wardens etc.
So there are no worries with the DSPCA chips

deadlast

EGAR wrote: »

Alternatively, go to http://www.europetnet.com/MembersDetails.aspx?Asso_ID=PLO put in chip number and then FIDO, ANIMARK, IKC should show up if the chip is reg'd with them. Obviously, it doesn't give you owner details but it DOES tell you whether the chip is reg'd and with which company.

My dog is registered with the IKC, I sent off the IKC form and fee reregistering her when I got her as a pup. I searched the above site with her MC number and it does point towards the IKC....see below. Is this enough for a vet/pound to track me down if she ever gets lost?
i.e. Are the IKC contactable in relation to owner details for a found pet?






Search Results

• Results from the Europetnet databaseFound in: (click on association name for details)
• IRELAND
  Irish Kennel Club
  This record was last updated on 07/05/2010 in this database.

• More results from the Internet
  (Currently connected databases)
  No more results found.

DBB

Not necessarily Deadlast, I'm afraid!
The registration details you changed relate to the IKC registry (deals with pedigrees, issuing papers etc), but not to a microchip registry. In other words, your paperwork puts your name on the dog's registration papers, but I'm not so sure the IKC also automatically changes the contact details registered on the dog's microchip. Someone else here may be able to confirm this.
But I can tell you, I get plenty of microchipped dogs into rescue whose microchip details are still registered to the breeder. Some breeders keep records of which pup was sold to who, but not all of them do.
In addition, if the breeder didn't bother registering any details to the chip, and the new owner doesn't ensure that they register with the microchip database either, we often end up with dogs which are chipped but have no contact details of anyone at all, which is a reason why this thread was originally started!
So, I'd advise that you contact the IKC and find out if your dog's microchip is registered to you. Or if you like, PM me the microchip number and I'll search the databases to see are your details on the microchip.

deadlast

DBB wrote: »

Not necessarily Deadlast, I'm afraid!
The registration details you changed relate to the IKC registry (deals with pedigrees, issuing papers etc), but not to a microchip registry. In other words, your paperwork puts your name on the dog's registration papers, but I'm not so sure the IKC also automatically changes the contact details registered on the dog's microchip. Someone else here may be able to confirm this.
But I can tell you, I get plenty of microchipped dogs into rescue whose microchip details are still registered to the breeder. Some breeders keep records of which pup was sold to who, but not all of them do.
In addition, if the breeder didn't bother registering any details to the chip, and the new owner doesn't ensure that they register with the microchip database either, we often end up with dogs which are chipped but have no contact details of anyone at all, which is a reason why this thread was originally started!
So, I'd advise that you contact the IKC and find out if your dog's microchip is registered to you. Or if you like, PM me the microchip number and I'll search the databases to see are your details on the microchip.

I had a quick look at my IKC cert and i'm down as the registered owner. But I would be interested to see what comes back with your MC search, just in case... PM sent, thanks

scarlet_mandy

deadlast wrote: »

My dog is registered with the IKC, I sent off the IKC form and fee reregistering her when I got her as a pup. I searched the above site with her MC number and it does point towards the IKC....see below. Is this enough for a vet/pound to track me down if she ever gets lost?
i.e. Are the IKC contactable in relation to owner details for a found pet?






Search Results

• Results from the Europetnet databaseFound in: (click on association name for details)
• IRELAND
  Irish Kennel Club
  This record was last updated on 07/05/2010 in this database.

• More results from the Internet
  (Currently connected databases)
  No more results found.

Exactly the same situation as this for us, just checked there and got same results. We also sent off change of ownership form so if I contact them would they give me the details over the phone? Also if our dog got lost would her details come up, as she has one starting with 972? If not can you re-register with a diff database like Fido? Sorry just super confused regarding this!

DBB

Hi scarlet mandy,
It's been pretty much confirmed to me that when you have your change-of-ownership done to have your name put on the IKC registration cert, the microchip details are NOT also transferred automatically.
The IKC cert is a different entity to the microchip registration.
So, if you have not personally registered the details on the microchip to you, then your dog is either still registered to the breeder, or not registered at all.
Do people with a new pup not get a microchip change-of-ownership form so they can do this?
I know fido issue such documentation with pups, but not so sure animark do? So if you didn't get such a form, your dog is probably registered with animark under the breeder's name. If registered at all.
So you need to take personal responsibility for ensuring your pup's microchip details are registered to you.
It is very confusing, not helped by there being several different and independent microchip databases in Ireland!

PS You can register your dog with every database for a fee if you want, but certainly fido are important to be registered with as their database is easily accessible to pounds, rescues, vets etc, and is generally the first port of call if a chipped dog is picked up. I'd also register, or amend the registration details, with animark.

deadlast

scarlet_mandy wrote: »

Exactly the same situation as this for us, just checked there and got same results. We also sent off change of ownership form so if I contact them would they give me the details over the phone? Also if our dog got lost would her details come up, as she has one starting with 972? If not can you re-register with a diff database like Fido? Sorry just super confused regarding this!

DBB kindly did a search on my dogs MC number and the details came back to the breeder. So the MC details were not updated even though the IKC cert is now registered to me. I will definitely be changing her registration with Animark and probably registering her with Fido.

Hope this helps.

mymo

To those of you that have IKC reg dogs, when you got your dog and the cert with instructions to change the cert to your name and address, you should also have gotten a little leaflet with the microchip number on.
This leaflet has instructions on how to change the chip to your name and address.
Both my dogs had these, infact both breeders had the dogs chips in their names and advised I fill in the leaflet for the chip and post it off, since the chip was registered in their names, if the dog was found it would be traced to them, therefore I needed to change the details.
I do believe there are many breeders not putting the chips in their names, just leaving them blank, my vet has said if he chips a dog he insists its registered in his office via the online option, he said all vets should do this. I think so too, or whats the point of chipping the dog.

deadlast

mymo wrote: »

To those of you that have IKC reg dogs, when you got your dog and the cert with instructions to change the cert to your name and address, you should also have gotten a little leaflet with the microchip number on.
This leaflet has instructions on how to change the chip to your name and address.
Both my dogs had these, infact both breeders had the dogs chips in their names and advised I fill in the leaflet for the chip and post it off, since the chip was registered in their names, if the dog was found it would be traced to them, therefore I needed to change the details.
I do believe there are many breeders not putting the chips in their names, just leaving them blank, my vet has said if he chips a dog he insists its registered in his office via the online option, he said all vets should do this. I think so too, or whats the point of chipping the dog.

I never got that little leaflet, hence the MC details were never changed over from the breeder to me.

Thanks to all in this thread for highliighting it!

scarlet_mandy

Thanks for the replies! I don't remember getting that leaflet but I will have a look again in the house I checked already and she isn't registered at all with Animark, or Fido, so I was planning on registering her with Fido anyway, would I also then need to register her separately with Animark?

DBB

Mymo,
What database were your pups on? Just wondering do other companies other than fido send out these forms?
Scarlet mandy, if I were you I'd register your dog with fido. I'd also go with animark as a back up but this wouldn't be vital.

mymo

My two were both on Fido, I asked my vet about other databases but he said Fido is a good one as its large, and that should be enough.

piperh

When i got my 2 done i stupidly didn't check where they would be registered, i paid for the chip sent off card given along with the fee. A few weeks later i decided to check that they were on the database, no sign of them so contacted the company by email and got a very reassuring phone call saying they would register them immediatly. 3 wks later i checked again and still not showing on europet or any other well used database so decided to reregister with fido all done and sorted straight away.

Strangly enough the code on the chips began with 972 the company i originally paid and they were supposed to be registered with have replied on this post stating how good they are. Well not in my experience.

DBB

mymo wrote: »

My two were both on Fido, I asked my vet about other databases but he said Fido is a good one as its large, and that should be enough.

Okay, that fits in with what I've seen too.
When a breeder gets their pups chipped, they can either not register the chips at all, waiting for the new owner to do it, or they can register them with one of the microchip databases.
If they happen to register them with Fido, a change-of-ownership card is supplied so the new owner can easily re-register the pup to them.
If they happen to register them with Animark, it seems that no such change-of-ownership documenation is provided (can anyone confrim or deny this?), and so the owner must be told or have prior knowledge that they need to contact Animark to re-register the pup.
Bloody hell, is it any wonder there are so many microchipped dogs with meaningless microchips?

ISDW

DBB wrote: »

Okay, that fits in with what I've seen too.
When a breeder gets their pups chipped, they can either not register the chips at all, waiting for the new owner to do it, or they can register them with one of the microchip databases.
If they happen to register them with Fido, a change-of-ownership card is supplied so the new owner can easily re-register the pup to them.
If they happen to register them with Animark, it seems that no such change-of-ownership documenation is provided (can anyone confrim or deny this?), and so the owner must be told or have prior knowledge that they need to contact Animark to re-register the pup.
Bloody hell, is it any wonder there are so many microchipped dogs with meaningless microchips?

And it really doesn't help when the IKC won't answer emails. I won't go into specific details, but I have a dog here that is registered, I phoned the IKC to explain the situation and get the details changed, they listened, then told me it wouldn't be a problem, just email them. I did so, and did it again 2 weeks later, and again, 2 weeks later. Still no reply. Changing this dog's details is all legal and above board, but I have no IKC or animark paperwork for him, but can prove ownership. They are not interested in dog welfare, they need a complete overhaul.

Rant over:D

Blueprint

My guy is chipped with Animark and when I first got him it took me around 3 months and finally an email informing them that I would tell everyone I met to never get an Animark microchip before they finally actually amended my guys details. The excuse at the time was that they have a seperate section for pedigree and non pedigree dogs as the IKC administer the pedigree side of things and my dog was a mutt, but by following the contact details on the slip of paper I got I ended up in touch with the IKC side and they felt that it wasn't their problem!

My cats are registered with Fido and it's so easy to use in comparison.

DBB

I think the vital advantage of going with fido is that there's 24 hour access to them, which for someone who's lost their dog out-of-hours, is far better for peace of mind.

TooManyDogs

The IKC are a nightmare. It took me 3 years to get a licence for agility for one of my dogs because when I had him chipped the vet forgot to give me the Owners part of the chip form so I couldn't send it in with my form. He was fully registered to me with an Animark chip, the vet wrote a letter on headed paper confirming he chipped the dog with x chip number and they still wouldn't accept it!!!! It was only when they took over the Animark database that I was finally able to write to them and force them to give me an agilty licence. Idiots. After that I registered the 3 of my dogs with Animark chips with Fido too.
My decision was confirmed when the rescue I volunteer for was handed in a stray dog, chip in it and we rang the IKC but they wouldn't give the rescue the owner's details, insisted that they would write to them..... I'd be furious if my dog was found and in a rescue for days but IKC wouldn't give out my details to the rescue

Kali_Kalika

I'm really sorry about the hijack on this - if its not appropriate to the thread - again appologies and this can be ignored or removed - whatever is appropriate.

I'm wondering if anyone has experience with getting a microchip removed.
I've read far too many articles and more about tumors and cancer at the chip site for my liking and comfort.

My pup was chipped against my will and permission - I've never been happy about that fact and now that she's getting older - the chip is going closer and closer to the surface of her skin - as in you can completely see and feel the chip if you move away her fur.

Toulouse

Kali_Kalika wrote: »

My pup was chipped against my will and permission - I've never been happy about that fact and now that she's getting older - the chip is going closer and closer to the surface of her skin - as in you can completely see and feel the chip if you move away her fur.

How was she chipped against your will or permission?

If she is a rescue dog then I would imagine that you would need to contact the rescue about this. I'd imagine removing the chip would void the adoption contract if you signed one.