New York Serial Killer Could Be Versed in Poilce Techniques

Temaz

Chilling case.

Whoever killed four prostitutes, and possibly four other people, and then dumped their bodies in heavy underbrush along a beachfront causeway on Long Island appears to have a sophisticated understanding of police investigative techniques, according to people briefed on the case.



A series of taunting phone calls made to the teenage sister of one of the victims — calls that the police suspect came from the killer — were made from in or around some of the most crowded locations in New York City, including Madison Square Garden and Times Square, according to the people briefed on the case and to the mother of Melissa Barthelemy, that victim.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/09/nyregion/09bodies.html?_r=1&scp=3&sq=serial%20killer&st=cse

seanybiker

Could be an alright movie

Hookah

He's probably been watching CSI.

Temaz

You have to feel for family members getting those phone calls. Really disturbing stuff.

racso1975

Yeah it's nightmare stuff alright between maybe finding out you daughter was on the game, to finding out she was murdered the getting calls from the sick fluck who did it! Really is a tragic time for them

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dexter strikes again!

HavingCrack

It seems like the investigators think it's a police officer or federal agent of some sort.

El Horseboxo

Thanks to tv shows that work closely with police liasons anybody could kill and make it look like they know how police conduct investigations.

orourkeda

Did the gardai teach him how to get away with rape?

Cormacp6

Hookah wrote: »

He's probably been watching CSI.

No No No
He wouldn't learn anything from CSI hes been watching some criminal minds.

Rodin

So someone clever enough not to leave the phone on all the timemust be 'versed in police thechniques'? Give me a break

I suppose all those guys with gloves and balaclavas must also be ex-cops, because if they see yer face, they'll know who it is!

TeddyTedson

Isn't this the plot from phonebox?

Richard Dower

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSI_effect

cafecolour

I think there's actually a significant number of serial kilers that were basically failed cops - i.e. they wanted to be officers, big into it/big police groupies, but couldn't pass the psychological bits.

Saila

cafecolour wrote: »

but couldn't pass the psychological bits.

yeah that one kept getting me, "do you dream of torturing puppies and chopping them up?"

I keep saying yes :mad:

Wolflikeme

Rodin wrote: »

So someone clever enough not to leave the phone on all the timemust be 'versed in police thechniques'? Give me a break

I suppose all those guys with gloves and balaclavas must also be ex-cops, because if they see yer face, they'll know who it is!

The locations, detectives say, were probably chosen because they allowed the caller to blend into crowds, so that if investigators pinpointed his location from the cellphone’s signal, they would be unable to pick him out of the crowd using any nearby surveillance cameras.

“He is a guy who is aware of how we utilize technology,” one investigator said. “Frankly, people are thinking maybe he could be a cop” — either one still in law enforcement or one who has moved on.

"The investigator, and several others, emphasized that the idea that the killer could be an active or former law enforcement officer was just one theory being examined by homicide investigators in Suffolk County, where the bodies were found."

Maybe try reading the article....properly.

ejmaztec

Wolflikeme wrote: »

Maybe try reading the article....properly.

But this is After Hours.:eek:

Jesus Wept

If he were smart, he wouldn't be making any phone calls.

Le King

The-Rigger wrote: »

If he were smart, he wouldn't be making any phone calls.

If he was that smart he wouldn't go around killing people.

Saila

Le King wrote: »

If he was that smart he wouldn't go around killing people.

and getting caught, its only a matter of time

bonerm

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Isn't this the plot from phonebox?

Phonebox? Was that that movie that starred the guy from Alexander the Deadly?

HavingCrack

cafecolour wrote: »

I think there's actually a significant number of serial kilers that were basically failed cops - i.e. they wanted to be officers, big into it/big police groupies, but couldn't pass the psychological bits.

Apparently there's actually quite a significant correlation between, as you say, failed police and serial killers as a proportion. Generally they don't have the sexual linj other killers have, it's more about saying fcuk you to society.

OutlawPete

Do we know it's a 'he' for sure?

Lets not forget one serial killer in recent times:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3NHxW7K064

HavingCrack

OutlawPete wrote: »

Do we know it's a 'he' for sure?

Lets not forget one serial killer in recent times:

Males make up the vast majority of serial killers (95% or so) so it probably is a he using the law of averages. Interestingly, the most prolific known murderer in history was female however. Elizabeth Bathory was estimated to have killed 600 people in the 1600's :eek:

vampire of kilmainham

orourkeda wrote: »

Did the gardai teach him how to get away with rape?

i was waiting for that one:D:D:D

vampire of kilmainham

id say it's Grissom:eek::eek::eek:;););)

vampire of kilmainham

bonerm wrote: »

Phonebox? Was that that movie that starred the guy from Alexander the Deadly?

no it was the movie that stared colin farrell and it was boiring sh1t as well:(

vampire of kilmainham

O i forgot it also stared a phonebox:D

vampire of kilmainham

it could be det sgt deegan in fair city:(:D

SuperInfinity

Hookah wrote: »

He's probably been watching CSI.

I know this was said in jest, but police investigators constantly say this over and over. The criminals are picking up things from shows like CSI. If you watch the Crime channel, they have said this many times about how they are more clever now because of it... with CSI being the most notorious of all for this.

Of course this type of information was in the public before, but the real stuff only slowly perculated through various media with varied responses from criminals....:

Books.... nothing.
TV documentaries.... nothing.
Interweb..... nothing.
Prime-time fictional tv series.... every damn criminal in the world turns into an expert forensics criminologist. -___-

Bosco boy

HavingCrack wrote: »

Apparently there's actually quite a significant correlation between, as you say, failed police and serial killers as a proportion. Generally they don't have the sexual linj other killers have, it's more about saying fcuk you to society.

Sounds like half of boards.ie posters

hal9000

Hookah wrote: »

He's probably been watching CSI.

So, what? he's learn't how to take off sunglasses and bad puns

Temaz

Il admit to having a morbid fascination with this case.

Some towns and counties have cancer clusters. Others have high rates of traffic fatalities or foreclosures. In New York, Long Island has been grappling with its own disturbing demographic: Three serial killers who targeted the same type of victims have operated in the same tidy suburbs in the span of 22 years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/10/weekinreview/10killer.html?scp=1&sq=serial%20killer&st=cse

Temaz

Another body found according to Newstalk:(

Dick Burns

i think hes sitting beside me here at work :eek:

SeaFields

Does america produce a far higher proportion of serial killers per head of population or is it just media that makes it seem that way?

They seems to have produced some of the most notorious killers.

pickarooney

vampire of kilmainham wrote: »

it could be det sgt deegan in fair city:(:D

Dear Vampire of Kilmainham,

For the love of Christ, please learn to use the Multiquote button (or just take two minutes and say everything you want to say in one post).

Thanks
The internet

EL_Loco

Sad thing is they'll only get caught if they keep doing it, and making phone calls. If they decided to stop for a few years any pattern the police had to go on or chance of catching them would dry up.

so on one hand if they stop good, but they're still out there, if they don't, not good but ups the chances of getting caught.

Temaz

The killer, Wragge pointed out, has been very meticulous.

"I think he's smart enough to know that he shouldn't leave any kind of remnants of himself like cigarette butts or soda cans," Kobilinksy explained, "anything that might give away his identification through fingerprints or DNA. He is definitely thinking about what he's doing. He's careful."

The reported calls, Kobilinsky admits, "surprised me. Because we hadn't heard anything about taunting. There are serial killers that taunt the police, by expressing to the police, 'I'm smarter than you are. I'm one step ahead of you.' This is the first time we're hearing about taunting of family members. This fellow really has some psychological problems and he's trying to send a message to the family. It's degrading, basically.

"It sounds to me," Kobilinsky continued, "like he's a psychopath. He's fantasizing. Some of it has to do with sex. But, I think the real thrill that he gets is in the kill. You know, he fantasizes. He captures a woman through craigslist. That's the mechanism that he attracts these women. And then kills them someplace where he's very comfortable, and then deposits the body in a place that's quite desolate."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/04/11/earlyshow/main20052698.shtml

Chickaroo

HavingCrack wrote: »

Males make up the vast majority of serial killers (95% or so) so it probably is a he using the law of averages. Interestingly, the most prolific known murderer in history was female however. Elizabeth Bathory was estimated to have killed 600 people in the 1600's :eek:

Was anyone else reading that in the voice of the geeky fella (Spencer) out of Criminal Minds??

Temaz

Chickaroo wrote: »

Was anyone else reading that in the voice of the geeky fella (Spencer) out of Criminal Minds??

Saila

SeaFields wrote: »

Does america produce a far higher proportion of serial killers per head of population or is it just media that makes it seem that way?

They seems to have produced some of the most notorious killers.

Yes most are in the states, you can see why really.

HavingCrack

SeaFields wrote: »

Does america produce a far higher proportion of serial killers per head of population or is it just media that makes it seem that way?

They seems to have produced some of the most notorious killers.

Yeah it does, apparently for one reason, its sheer geographic size. If someone is killed in New York the murderer could be Chicago in a day which is the equivalent of fleeing from here to Rome or something. It also has vast amounts of wilderness for hiding bodies compared to Europe for example. Only 50% of US murders are solved which is scarily high.

On the other hand, the way serial killings are catalogued is very different in other countries. For example the Soviet Union refused to accept the concept of a serial kilelr even existed so maybe we're not really comparing like with like.

Chickaroo wrote: »

Was anyone else reading that in the voice of the geeky fella (Spencer) out of Criminal Minds??

fontanalis

SeaFields wrote: »

Does america produce a far higher proportion of serial killers per head of population or is it just media that makes it seem that way?

They seems to have produced some of the most notorious killers.

I think Russia or South Africa have higher levels of serial killers.

Son Of A Vidic

So a guy makes some calls from public areas rather than his own bedroom. Suddenly he's a fcuking genius well schooled in police techniques, give me a break for ffs!

Temaz

The police found a skull as well as a bag containing what one law enforcement official said appeared to be “upper and lower extremities.” They were found two or three miles apart; the authorities said they had not determined if the remains came from more than one victim.
Both finds were made off the northern edge of Ocean Parkway, as were the discoveries of the eight bodies in Suffolk County. The first four of those bodies were found near Gilgo Beach in December; the authorities said they were of female prostitutes in their 20s who had been missing since as long ago as 2007.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/12/nyregion/12bodies.html?ref=nyregion

crazygeryy

HavingCrack wrote: »

Yeah it does, apparently for one reason, its sheer geographic size. If someone is killed in New York the murderer could be Chicago in a day which is the equivalent of fleeing from here to Rome or something. It also has vast amounts of wilderness for hiding bodies compared to Europe for example. Only 50% of US murders are solved which is scarily high.
On the other hand, the way serial killings are catalogued is very different in other countries. For example the Soviet Union refused to accept the concept of a serial kilelr even existed so maybe we're not really comparing like with like.

that is scary.also a lot of the murdered are prostitutes, so the murderer has plenty of time to get away because sadly most of the time no one is going to miss a prostitute or report her missing.
russia had that belief but it cost them dearly.50 people murdered by one guy and they refused to believe a serial killer did it.
as told in the brilliant movie

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112681/

Temaz

crazygeryy wrote: »

that is scary.also a lot of the murdered are prostitutes, so the murderer has plenty of time to get away because sadly most of the time no one is going to miss a prostitute or report her missing.
russia had that belief but it cost them dearly.50 people murdered by one guy and they refused to believe a serial killer did it.
as told in the brilliant movie

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112681/

That guy was plain scary.

Andrei Romanovich Chikatilo (Russian: Андрей Романович Чикатило, Ukrainian: Андрій Романович Чикатило, Andrei Romanovich Chikatilo; October 16, 1936 – February 14, 1994) was a Ukrainian-born Soviet serial killer, nicknamed the Butcher of Rostov, The Red Ripper or The Rostov Ripper who committed the murders of a minimum of 52 women and children between 1978 and 1990. He was convicted of 52 murders in October 1992 (although he did confess to a total of 56 murders and was tried for 53 of these killings) and was subsequently executed for the murders for which he was convicted in February, 1994.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrei_Chikatilo

Temaz

"The high-resolution technology should be able to provide a detailed representation of the area and will extend through Nassau County," he said.
"We're hoping the technology will help indentify skeletal remains that may still be out there."
The aerial photography is expected to begin this week and is in addition to the ongoing searches by police dive teams and helicopters.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Video-Long-Island-Serial-Killer-Suffolk-County-Police-Seek-More-Help-From-FBI-As-Sea-Search-Begins/Article/201104215972010?lpos=World_News_Second_Home_Page_Article_Teaser_Region_4&lid=ARTICLE_15972010_Video_Long_Island_Serial_Killer%3A_Suffolk_County_Police_Seek_More_Help_From_FBI_As_Sea_Search_Begins

Temaz

New York: Long Island murders work of four killers, detectives say

Bodies found on Gilgo beach indicate secluded shoreline has been used as a dumping ground for human remains.

Detectives investigating the discovery of eight bodies along a beach on Long Island are working on the presumption that as many as four separate killers may have been involved.

The Suffolk County district attorney, Thomas Spota, revealed that the eight deaths appeared to divide into four seemingly unrelated groups. His disclosure raises the bewildering prospect that a stretch of secluded shoreline used by 6 million beachgoers each summer has been used as a dumping ground for human remains.

Spota said many of the victims had yet to be identified and the precise nature of their killing was not yet known. "But what we do know for certain and what is now very clear is that the area in and around Gilgo beach has been used to discard human remains for some period of time," he said. "As distasteful and disturbing as that is, there is no evidence that all these remains are those of a single killer."

The investigation has involved hundreds of officers from Long Island and New York. Four bodies found in December wrapped in hessian were those of women in their 20s who had worked as prostitutes and picked up clients through Craigslist. Police are convinced that all four were the victims of a serial killer, but can find no evidence that the murders were related in any way to the other cases.

The other four bodies or parts of bodies were discovered about a mile away last month. Police believe these fall under three separate groups.

Two of the four remains were the head and hands of women. One of the victims has been identified as Jessica Taylor, 20, who worked as prostitute in Washington and New York; the other is being referred to as Jane Doe no 6. Detectives have matched the parts to torsos found in 2000 and 2003 respectively in Manorville, about 45 miles east of Gilgo beach.

The nature of their dismemberment, and the proximity of the remains in two locations, suggests to police that these killings were related. They have reopened two other cold cases, dating from 1997 and 2007, in which a similar form of dismemberment took place, on the assumption that another serial killer might have been at work.

The third, potentially separate discovery was of an Asian man, referred to as John Doe no 8, who met a "violent" death. His body was found close to that of the dismembered women, but there is no evidence to connect them.

The fourth body was of a toddler, aged between 18 and 24 months, probably a girl, wrapped in a blanket. The body displayed no signs of trauma and police have not yet declared it a murder case.

Detectives have been struck by the difference in technique of the disposal of the child and the dismembered women.

"It does not make sense to us that the person would go to such great lengths to prevent Jane Doe no 6 from being identified, then lay the body of a related toddler so close by. There is no evidence at all of any attempt to conceal the identity of the child," Spota said.

Joseph Pollini, a criminologist at John Jay College in New York and a former New York homicide detective, said the possibility that the shoreline had been used as a dumping ground for human remains would fit the secluded nature of the area.

"This is the optimal place to dump a body," he said. "There are no cameras or surveillance of any kind and you can see people coming in either direction along the long straight road."

guardian.co.uk

Saila

ah ok, its not a serial killer its just the mafia then..