Leinster vs Ulster, Sat 16th April 8pm, RTE2

swan82

swan82 wrote: »

I like them but dont want them to play for Ireland.Thankfully Leinster only have a couple of these project players.Ironically boss came from ulster where he was a project player.Your thoughts?

I'm not concerned about them playing for Ireland, how do you feel they affect the Leinster team?

How come Ulster's non-homegrown players are mercenaries and Leinster's aren't?

The issue of National Qualification deserves its own thread tbh, plenty of very serious divisions on the matter.

swan82

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

boss isn't a project player he is qualified through his Irish grandmother

I only want people who were raised and learned their rugby playing for Ireland.I doubt im the only person with this view.

durkadurka

Nacewa. My kind of mercinary (sic)

swan82

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not concerned about them playing for Ireland, how do you feel they affect the Leinster team?

How come Ulster's non-homegrown players are mercenaries and Leinster's aren't?

The issue of National Qualification deserves its own thread tbh, plenty of very serious divisions on the matter.

Leinsters are mercinaries but my complaint is with the amounts brought in by the respective clubs over the years that have had significant gametime.

So Leinster should be ashamed because

• we have Jason Harris Wright available to play Hooker and we persist with that devil Mercenary Strauss
• Devin Toner should start ahead of Hines for every game
• Iasaac Boss shouldn't have been allowed sign as he's taken gametime from Paul O'Donoghue
• Nacewa is stopping David Kearney from being a superstar.

From an Irish perspective, you could possibly have a point. But Leinster are looking at things from a Leinster Perspective first and foremost, and the Irish Perspective comes after.

Things are no different (and rightly so imo) at Ulster.

Anyway, I reckon I'm going to take PhatPhiggins advice here again and leave it at that.

tolosenc

It's Jason Harris-Wright, btw...

Do you reckon that if he ever does get his Fiji cap annulled, Isa would play for Ireland?

Morf

tolosenc wrote: »

It's Jason Harris-Wright, btw...

Do you reckon that if he ever does get his Fiji cap annulled, Isa would play for Ireland?

Nope, very good change of being an All Black. He's a New Zealander, born and bred.

I'd imagine New Zealand petitioning hard to have it annulled would be the most likely scenario to it happening.

swan82

Morf wrote: »

Nope, very good change of being an All Black. He's a New Zealander, born and bred.

I'd imagine New Zealand petitioning hard to have it annulled would be the most likely scenario to it happening.

They did appeal very hard,it was the first time it was done so vigoriously and still lost the appeal.
He will never play for fiji,they tricked him into thinking the cap wouldnt count.

CatFromHue

in fairness nacewa should really have known better.

i believe he did ask the fijian authorities did it affect/prohibit him playing for nz and was told no.

he did play against scotland in the 2003 world cup for fiji. which to me if he wanted to play for nz he shouldnt have even thought about doing.

conf101

swan82 wrote: »

They did appeal very hard,it was the first time it was done so vigoriously and still lost the appeal.
He will never play for fiji,they tricked him into thinking the cap wouldnt count.

Really? Never heard that before. How so?

swan82

conf101 wrote: »

Really? Never heard that before. How so?

Im going on what i have read on planet rugby forum and thesilverfern.com but NZ supporters claim the ab's tried in vain to get it annulled,not becuase they wanted him so bad but because they would lead a precident,I have no reason not to believe them.

For all the talk of them poaching,the islands poach more of their players than anything.

The online links are all dead because it is mostly fiji papers,this is one,although it desnt say much.

http://web.archive.org/web/20060718185319/http://www.fijivillage.com/artman/publish/article_30792.shtml

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/new-zealand/news/article.cfm?l_id=71&objectid=10492897

As I said,im just quoting supporters but it seems it was more a precident than Isa being a player the AB's really wanted.

totallegend

CatFromHue wrote: »

in fairness nacewa should really have known better.

i believe he did ask the fijian authorities did it affect/prohibit him playing for nz and was told no.

he did play against scotland in the 2003 world cup for fiji. which to me if he wanted to play for nz he shouldnt have even thought about doing.

In his defence, the guy was 21 at the time. If we all had to live with the decisions we made when we were 21...

But from an Ireland point of view, it's irrelevant; if he hadn't played for Fiji, he'd have played for NZ - and if that had happened, he might never have come to Leinster. So maybe we should all be thankful for those 30 seconds.

almighty1

Wonder what the chances of Strauss playing for Ireland? He is currently (by some distance) the best hooker amongst the 4 provinces.

GerM

almighty1 wrote: »

Wonder what the chances of Strauss playing for Ireland? He is currently (by some distance) the best hooker amongst the 4 provinces.

Basically a given at this stage, I would think. He'll be qualified for the 2012 autumn series and I reckon he'll start the game against the weakest opposition. We'll have to see how Cronin gets on next season at Leinster too.

durkadurka

Who among us hasn't done something for 30 seconds that we haven't regretted for years?

jacothelad

swan82 wrote: »

Ulster and their team of mercenaries are an absolute disgrace.
Fans expected to see a match,not to see them bend over and get gaped wide open by the Leinster B team.

Only Gilroy can hold his hand up,they wont get anywhere near the Heineken semi's next year again unless they get just another ridiculously easy group.Very Overrated team.

swan82 wrote: »

Yeah,you're right.

Guys like Darcy,Court,Barker,Touhy and Kyriacou are all good born and raised irish men.

Oh wait................



TBH I think you do joe a disservice there.He is clearly living up to the "nicest man in Irish rugby" tag,bestowed upon him by the media.

swan82 wrote: »

No hate.

swan82 wrote: »

Im a Leinster fan.I also take umbrage with your mocking of our stadium nickname.No need for it.

I just fell Ulster would be better represented by born and raised Ulster/Irish men wearing the jersey.Obviously our interpretations of the term mercinary are different.

"A mercinary is a person who takes part in an armed conflict/Rugby match, who is not a national or a party to the conflict, and is "motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain"

would be mine.

swan82 wrote: »

I like them but dont want them to play for Ireland.Thankfully Leinster only have a couple of these project players.Ironically boss came from ulster where he was a project player.Your thoughts?

Digifriendly wrote: »

Court is irish qualified as is Tuohy while Darcy is no different IMO than say Nacewa in this respect. Kyriacou played for Munster as well as Saracens and is probably 'a bit of a journeyman'. I wouldn't say they're all mercenaries.

swan82 wrote: »

Leinsters are mercinaries but my complaint is with the amounts brought in by the respective clubs over the years that have had significant gametime.

So many errors, so little thought.

Where do you stand then on Rhy Ruddock, Van Der Merwe, Hines, Stan Wright, Berne, Galarza, Newlands, Strauss, Elsom, Van Der linde, Le Roux, Comtepomi, Heaslip, Chris Whittaker,Isaac Boss, Ed O'Donohue, Guy Easterby, Owen Finnegan, Ben Gissing, Henry Vermaas, Kieth Gleeson, Juan Gomez, Christian Warner, Bryce Williams, Will Green, Johnny Hepworth, David Holwell, Cam Jowett, Stephen Knoop, Matt Leek, Adam Magro, Isa nacewa, Ricky Nebbitt, Fosi Pala'amo, Simon Shawe, Nathan Spooner. It must be awful for you given your hatred of non-Irish born players playing for Ulster yet Leinster have over the years made it an industry all on it's own. You really need to think before you post. Maybe do a bit of research.
As you say,

"A mercinary is a person who takes part in an armed conflict/Rugby match, who is not a national or a party to the conflict, and is "motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain".

Given the list of those off the top of my head who have played for Leinster and aren't capable of fulfilling your criteria of 'Born' in Ireland. Perhaps being able to spell the word 'mercenary' might be a start. As you hold your views so strongly, I'd advise you to support a team that doesn't offend you sensibilities as much. Ulster for example.

almighty1

durkadurka wrote: »

Who among us hasn't done something for 30 seconds that we haven't regretted for years?

Moved to After Hours

Re : Strauss. I cant believe how good he is. For a guy whose past history was predominantly a back-row his darts are sensational. Cronin is going to have a major job moving him out of that team.

I just hope that the IRFU dont stick their noses in too much.

PhatPiggins

almighty1 wrote: »

Moved to After Hours

Re : Strauss. I cant believe how good he is. For a guy whose past history was predominantly a back-row his darts are sensational. Cronin is going to have a major job moving him out of that team.

I just hope that the IRFU dont stick their noses in too much.

What impresses me most about him is his consistency of form over the course of the season. He played little or no rugby last season and was largely a bit part player in SA. To go from a standing start to where he is today is mighty impressive.

GerM

jacothelad wrote: »

Where do you stand then on Galarza, Newlands, Van Der linde, Ed O'Donohue, Owen Finnegan, Harry Vermaas, Juan Gomez, Johnny Hepworth, Cam Jowett, Stephen Knoop, Matt Leek, Adam Magro, Fosi Pala'amo .

Low blows.

Despicable, low blows.

Dr.Evil

Would South Africa not be tempted to try cap Strauss, or does he have the intention of qualifying for Ireland instead? I know South Africa aren't short on hookers, but he's still a quality player.

GerM

Dr.Evil wrote: »

Would South Africa not be tempted to try cap Strauss, or does he have the intention of qualifying for Ireland instead? I know South Africa aren't short on hookers, but he's still a quality player.

Staruss is on record as saying that if he was called up to a Springbok training camp, he would reject the invite at this stage. He is dedicated to playing for Ireland.

@jacothelad

@jacothelad, while I totally agree with the sentiment of your post, Rhys Ruddock, born in Ireland, is a poor example of a "mercenary"!

funky penguin

GerM wrote: »

Basically a given at this stage, I would think. He'll be qualified for the 2012 autumn series and I reckon he'll start the game against the weakest opposition. We'll have to see how Cronin gets on next season at Leinster too.

I'm of the opinion of 'screw what the opposition is, get that man an Irish cap asap!'

jacothelad

Deleted User wrote: »

@jacothelad, while I totally agree with the sentiment of your post, Rhys Ruddock, born in Ireland, is a poor example of a "mercenary"!

His rant was 'born and raised' in Ireland. Ruddock wasn't totally raised here and Heaslip wasn't born here so they shouldn't be playing for Leinster or Ireland according to Einstein82. The guy seems to know astonishingly little about his team and even less about Ulster. FFS I'm an Ulster supporter but I seem to know a hell of a lot more about Leinster than he does. Unless there is a rule that if you get paid for playing for Ulster you're a mercenary and if you get paid for playing for Leinster you are not. Down the years, Leinster have had two or three times the number of 'foreign' players than Ulster. More power to them. Guys like Le Roux, Holwell, Contepomi, Elsom and Whittaker often made the difference. A lot of it of course stems from the ill-informed slabber of ballbags like Hook and Francis. Apparently it's fine and not worthy of comment when Munster and Leinster pay huge sums for Elsom, van der Linde, Howlett, de Villiers etc but when Ulster pay a lot less for guys like Botha, Muller et al it's a sneering load of drivel about being full of 'bought' players. There was a time when rugby players and followers were intellectually capable of actually seeing what was in front of them and making up their own minds. Unfortunately we seem to be suffering an invasion of foul mouthed soccer type supporters like swan82 who perhaps discovered rugby recently.

durkadurka

Add in Mal o kelly and ROG while you're at it!

Hard to know where to draw the line isnt it?

overshoot

swan82 wrote: »

I only want people who were raised and learned their rugby playing for Ireland.I doubt im the only person with this view.

thought id bring this post by him back in to keep it fresh; Leo Cullen, Eoin Reddan, Mike Ross could be argued didnt learn here. Ian Humphreys at ulster, could fall into this. swan seems to have a play for your provence all your life or your not irish approach. if these people didnt leave do you think they would be at the level they are now? would you turn tommy bowe away from the ireland team beacuse he plays for ospreys.
Leinster have had a revolving door for foreign players, these have taught the academy grads so much. if ulster dont do this who are their emerging academy players going to learn from... that have something to teach them? considering ulster have been about 8th in the magners league the last how many years and knocked straight out of the HC. without these players they would have come into a ulster team gettnig whipped as usual... not exactly the best environment to learn in.

totallegend

GerM wrote: »

Staruss is on record as saying that if he was called up to a Springbok training camp, he would reject the invite at this stage. He is dedicated to playing for Ireland.

That's very admirable (if he's genuine about it). The guy is a top-quality hooker, will be rivalling Best for the Ireland no 2 jersey (I'm assuming Flannery will not last until Autumn 2012 ). He'll only be 26 at that stage too.

Strauss is also probably being realistic in that he's not going to dislodge Bismarck du Plessis or John Smit from the Boks.

CatFromHue

totallegend wrote: »

In his defence, the guy was 21 at the time. If we all had to live with the decisions we made when we were 21...

it was my understanding he was with them for the whole tournament.

little173

GerM wrote: »

Staruss is on record as saying that if he was called up to a Springbok training camp, he would reject the invite at this stage. He is dedicated to playing for Ireland.

Am surpised at that and I am generally pretty anti the residency rule, but every other major playing nation uses this rule to get in the best players so with our small group of players we should def cap him. As an aside, I still think generally the IRFU are on a tight line with NIQ players especially in key positions.

tolosenc

CatFromHue wrote: »

it was my understanding he was with them for the whole tournament.

Yes, but he only played the last 2 mins of a group game.

RuggieBear

swan 82 banned for being rereg.

report the posts people

danthefan

overshoot wrote: »

thought id bring this post by him back in to keep it fresh; Leo Cullen, Eoin Reddan, Mike Ross could be argued didnt learn here.

No it really couldn't be argued, at all.

sock puppet

Dr.Evil wrote: »

Would South Africa not be tempted to try cap Strauss, or does he have the intention of qualifying for Ireland instead? I know South Africa aren't short on hookers, but he's still a quality player.

Strauss is far too small to play for South Africa.

WeeBushy

sock puppet wrote: »

Strauss is far too small to play for South Africa.

I'd disagree with that, he's played at the highest level NH rugby has to offer and hasn't been shown up for lack of size. The man is a cannon ball.

lologram

sock puppet wrote: »

Strauss is far too small to play for South Africa.

In height or in size? He's no smaller (in size) than BJ Botha, for example. He is about 3 or 4 inches shorter though.

Not trying to argue for SA to try to cap him though, I want him to play for us

sock puppet

WeeBushy wrote: »

I'd disagree with that, he's played at the highest level NH rugby has to offer and hasn't been shown up for lack of size. The man is a cannon ball.

I don't disagree but he's what 5'8? Just seems way too short to be picked by South African coaches who seem to place a big emphasis on size.

jacothelad

lologram wrote: »

In height or in size? He's no smaller (in size) than BJ Botha, for example. He is about 3 or 4 inches shorter though.

Not trying to argue for SA to try to cap him though, I want him to play for us

Botha is 6'0" and about 17.5 stone. While not comparing like with like, Strauss is a better rugby player than Botha.