Galway roundabouts set for upgrades

Iwannahurl

Webbs wrote: »

Whilst I do agree that commuting by car is polluting, wasteful etc though I dont find it stressful, 10 years of london commuting makes Galway a breeze.

I disagree with you about moving home to be near your job as I live by 'work to live not live to work' so therefore want to live somewhere I enjoy and get a good life which wouldn't be anywhere near where I work. Its a difficult balance to make and I suppose its each to their own

So traffic congestion in Galway City is perhaps the citizenry's #1 complaint these days, but it could be much worse?

Could that explain why people why people moan a lot about the problem, but are resistant to proposals that would have an impact on their car use? In other words, it's bad but not so bad that I'm willing to accept major changes in traffic and transport policies...

Storm 10

Very hard to know how to deal with Galway traffic, its a pain in the ass no matter what is done. Will be interesting to see how things go when the works at Westside are completed.

celtictiger

ciotog wrote: »

The advice assumes that everyone using the roundabout uses it correctly and that all roundabouts are idealised down to single lane entry/exit. Contrast that with the situation in Galway:
- A significant number of vehicular road users don't signal entering or exiting a roundabout
- A significant number of vehicular road users don't signal while on the roundabout
- A significant number of vehicular road users don't maintain appropriate lane selection while on the roundabout or exiting.
- Traffic volumes on Galway roundabouts are considerably higher.
- Many Galway roundabouts have dual carriageways on entry and/or exit.

The advice may make it safer conceptually but reality makes it dangerous.

Jaysus - isn't everything is more dangerous in reality

Robbo

McTigs wrote: »

Tell me you reported that idiot.

I didn't think abandoning a pram that close to the flow of traffic is call to be onto social services; the trucks behaviour however, was stupid, common, illegal and sadly too familiar at that junction on the other hand.

ciotog

celtictiger wrote: »

Jaysus - isn't everything is more dangerous in reality

I take it then you agree on the original point that roundabouts pose a danger to cyclists?

celtictiger

ciotog wrote: »

I take it then you agree on the original point that roundabouts pose a danger to cyclists?

I agree every inch of the road is more dangerous to cyclists, roundabouts included. There's nothing between your head and the road but a wee bit of plastic and foam.

But do I agree with taking roundabouts out and putting in lights - hell no I don't agree with that. I drive in town 9-10 hours per day and I don't care what kind of study you show me to tell me they are more effective - I got one word - BULL. I got my own study - it's called Driving In Galway Every Day for Eight to Ten Hours. Ever since they put the lights in at Moneenageesha it's been a nightmare day in and day out. I've spent countless hours sitting at those lights wanting to meet the bright spark who decided to put them in - hours that I didn't spend before waiting for lights to change. For those who think we're gonna turn into a cycling/walking nation wake up...it ain't gonna happen unless our climate changes.

ciotog

celtictiger wrote: »

I agree every inch of the road is more dangerous to cyclists, roundabouts included. There's nothing between your head and the road but a wee bit of plastic and foam.

Roundabouts stand out as dangerous but in general it's not dangerous to cycle. I enjoy cycling in Galway.

But do I agree with taking roundabouts out and putting in lights - hell no I don't agree with that. I drive in town 9-10 hours per day and I don't care what kind of study you show me to tell me they are more effective - I got one word - BULL. I got my own study - it's called Driving In Galway Every Day for Eight to Ten Hours. Ever since they put the lights in at Moneenageesha it's been a nightmare day in and day out. I've spent countless hours sitting at those lights wanting to meet the bright spark who decided to put them in - hours that I didn't spend before waiting for lights to change.

The solution to the dangers posed by roundabouts doesn't have to be replacing them with traffic lights. It's not something we're pushing from the cycling campaign - in the past we have suggested the use of raised zebra crossings to facilitate vulnerable road users while keeping all traffic moving overall. Such a feature reduces speeds which has a large bearing on the safety; particularly of vulnerable road users (i.e. pedestrians and cyclists) but does keep traffic moving overall.

For those who think we're gonna turn into a cycling/walking nation wake up...it ain't gonna happen unless our climate changes.

It really doesn't rain as much as you think it does I cycle to work regularly and rarely get rained on. Where there are so many people travelling such short distances in the city, getting them out of cars would really ease the congestion.

celtictiger

ciotog wrote: »

It really doesn't rain as much as you think it does I cycle to work regularly and rarely get rained on. Where there are so many people travelling such short distances in the city, getting them out of cars would really ease the congestion.

It's not just the rain - people don't like the wind either. I personally enjoy a good stormy day (makes me feel alive) however I think that as a nation we've gone all gone far too soft.

Iwannahurl

Iwannahurl wrote: »

So traffic congestion in Galway City is perhaps the citizenry's #1 complaint these days, but it could be much worse?

Could that explain why people why people moan a lot about the problem, but are resistant to proposals that would have an impact on their car use? In other words, it's bad but not so bad that I'm willing to accept major changes in traffic and transport policies...

Well having lived in London too I wouldn't swap the worst traffic I have encountered commuting in and out of Galway for being packed into over crowded, uncomfortable, sweaty tubes or stink buses in London.

Iwannahurl

celtictiger wrote: »

But do I agree with taking roundabouts out and putting in lights - hell no I don't agree with that. I drive in town 9-10 hours per day and I don't care what kind of study you show me to tell me they are more effective - I got one word - BULL. I got my own study - it's called Driving In Galway Every Day for Eight to Ten Hours. Ever since they put the lights in at Moneenageesha it's been a nightmare day in and day out. I've spent countless hours sitting at those lights wanting to meet the bright spark who decided to put them in - hours that I didn't spend before waiting for lights to change. For those who think we're gonna turn into a cycling/walking nation wake up...it ain't gonna happen unless our climate changes.

A common response. It seems all that matters is motorists' perceptions.

celtictiger wrote: »

It's not just the rain - people don't like the wind either. I personally enjoy a good stormy day (makes me feel alive) however I think that as a nation we've gone all gone far too soft.

Claims about weather, climate and cycling are just flags of convenience, IMO. My son cycled to his creche recently in showery weather, with my assistance. His bike weighs 10 kg, the distance is 2 km and it features some steep hills along the way. He's aged 3 years 9 months.





^^^Caption: 38% of Copenhagener's commute by bicycle. Three-quarters of them continue even in the winter.

Sponge Bob

That is not cycling, that is paddling along on two feet with a bike stuck under yer arse :cool:

Iwannahurl wrote: »

^^^Caption: 38% of Copenhagener's commute by bicycle. Three-quarters of them continue even in the winter.

Iwannahurl

:P

celtictiger

Iwannahurl wrote: »

A common response. It seems all that matters is motorists' perceptions.

It's the concensus for a reason You like to cycle - I get it....but don't try to force it down everyones throat.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Claims about weather, climate and cycling are just flags of convenience, IMO. My son cycled to his creche recently in showery weather, with my assistance. His bike weighs 10 kg, the distance is 2 km and it features some steep hills along the way. He's aged 3 years 9 months.

Fair play to him - but ye're the exception not the rule. Enjoy your cycling.


As for the photos - damn they look misearable.....I'm betting they wish they were in a car

antoobrien

ciotog wrote: »

Roundabouts stand out as dangerous but in general it's not dangerous to cycle. I enjoy cycling in Galway.

I have to say I'm disturbed about the amount of muck being shoveled around how dangerous the roundabouts are in Galway. I spent 10 years cycling to work and college in Galway before I moved to Dublin, where I've been cycling to work for nearly 5 years.

The roundabouts are not dangerous if you're patient and watch what you're doing - the same rule of thumb apply to motorists and pedestrians. I see crazy stunts every day of the week at traffic lights, by all road users (especially for 'hurl that includes Pedestrians & Cyclists) which make the lights redundant. Several junctions are totally ignored by pedestrians who prefer to walk out into the road 50 yards away from the junction without paying attention to the traffic that's already on the road - which is somewhere between reckless, feckless and suicidal.

I cycle over 50km per week in Dublin and despite the many cycle lanes it's no safer because, same as in galway motorists (especially taxis for some reason) just ignore them and cut into the cycle lanes (which are by far preferable to the double wide footpaths we have between Newcastle & Ballybane). But I can live with that because there are were no usable lanes on mnost of the roads I used around Galway.

What really annoys me is that I have to stop on average every 600m for traffic lights - which are mostly pedestrian junctions that the pedestrians ignore.

In short, as someone that uses all 3 modes of road transport regularly, traffic lights are a pain in the ass for everyone that has to use them.

johnnyk66

celtictiger wrote: »

I've spent countless hours sitting at those lights wanting to meet the bright spark who decided to put them in - hours that I didn't spend before waiting for lights to change.

You probably won't meet them at the lights, drive up the hill to city hall, you might meet them there:D:D

ciotog

antoobrien wrote: »

I have to say I'm disturbed about the amount of muck being shoveled around how dangerous the roundabouts are in Galway. I spent 10 years cycling to work and college in Galway before I moved to Dublin, where I've been cycling to work for nearly 5 years.

The roundabouts are not dangerous if you're patient and watch what you're doing - the same rule of thumb apply to motorists and pedestrians. I see crazy stunts every day of the week at traffic lights, by all road users (especially for 'hurl that includes Pedestrians & Cyclists) which make the lights redundant. Several junctions are totally ignored by pedestrians who prefer to walk out into the road 50 yards away from the junction without paying attention to the traffic that's already on the road - which is somewhere between reckless, feckless and suicidal.

I cycle over 50km per week in Dublin and despite the many cycle lanes it's no safer because, same as in galway motorists (especially taxis for some reason) just ignore them and cut into the cycle lanes (which are by far preferable to the double wide footpaths we have between Newcastle & Ballybane). But I can live with that because there are were no usable lanes on mnost of the roads I used around Galway.

What really annoys me is that I have to stop on average every 600m for traffic lights - which are mostly pedestrian junctions that the pedestrians ignore.

In short, as someone that uses all 3 modes of road transport regularly, traffic lights are a pain in the ass for everyone that has to use them.

Why do you believe it's muck? Do you disagree that the issues I pointed out in an earlier response don't exist? They make roundabouts dangerous for cyclists because of their vulnerability when someones illegal manoeuvre goes wrong. Given a large percentage of accidents happen on roundabouts I don't see how it's unreasonable to call them dangerous. I'm not arguing that the solution should be lights.

galwaycyclist

Hi

In 2001 the Galway City Community Forum - an umbrella group for about 200 local groups - adopted a motion rejecting the use of high-flow roundabouts in the city the motion is here.

http://www.galwaycityforum.ie/motions/Motion_011201.pdf
It explains some of the issues and the official attitudes behind them.

Iwannahurl

celtictiger wrote: »

It's the concensus for a reason You like to cycle - I get it....but don't try to force it down everyones throat.


Fair play to him - but ye're the exception not the rule. Enjoy your cycling.


As for the photos - damn they look misearable.....I'm betting they wish they were in a car

The "consensus" will change PDQ when the carrot and stick measures arrive, as they inevitably will. It's only a matter of time, post-Kyoto and in the context of EU directives and the evolution of national policy. Check out the NRA's National Roads Traffic Management Study if you want to see the inexorable direction of national policy.

Cyclists, pedestrians and bus users are not forcing anything down anyone's throats. They're just looking for a better playing pitch. Cars, especially the single-occupant variety, take up vastly more room than active travel modes. That is now recognised in national policy, and we are now entering an era in which greater priority will be given to sustainable transport and "high-value" efficient use of the finite road space available. Welcome to the future.

Iwannahurl

ciotog wrote: »

Why do you believe it's muck? Do you disagree that the issues I pointed out in an earlier response don't exist? They make roundabouts dangerous for cyclists because of their vulnerability when someones illegal manoeuvre goes wrong. Given a large percentage of accidents happen on roundabouts I don't see how it's unreasonable to call them dangerous. I'm not arguing that the solution should be lights.

For some people their opinion trumps all evidence, in the way that a Smith & Wesson beats four aces.

AFAIK it has been well established in numerous studies that cyclists have an increased risk of collision on roundabouts.

Also important is cyclists' (and pedestrians') perception of danger. That is less tangible, but a powerful influence on cyclists behaviour and on people's transport decisions.

The roads environment in Galway City and Ireland generally can be chaotic, and that includes cyclists and pedestrians as well as motorists. A bit of perspective is needed, however. How many people have been killed or maimed by cyclists and pedestrians?

Iwannahurl

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Hi

In 2001 the Galway City Community Forum - an umbrella group for about 200 local groups - adopted a motion rejecting the use of high-flow roundabouts in the city the motion is here.

http://www.galwaycityforum.ie/motions/Motion_011201.pdf
It explains some of the issues and the official attitudes behind them.

Damning, IMO, especially the photos.

Then again, maybe those mothers and their children in that report are just muck shovellers so they don't count.

Robbo

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Hi

In 2001 the Galway City Community Forum - an umbrella group for about 200 local groups - adopted a motion rejecting the use of high-flow roundabouts in the city the motion is here.

http://www.galwaycityforum.ie/motions/Motion_011201.pdf
It explains some of the issues and the official attitudes behind them.

An interesting pamphlet in which I note all the prams are attended, but I do have to laugh at the title ("That the Galway Community Forum declares uncontrolled, high capacity, roundabouts are hostile to the needs of the wider community").

The spirit of the Skibereen Eagle lives on.

Iwannahurl

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Damning, IMO, especially the photos.

Then again, maybe those mothers and their children in that report are just muck shovellers so they don't count.

Well there is a pedestrian crossing on the other side of the Headford road roundabout but of course thats ignored in the report.

Robbo

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Hi

In 2001 the Galway City Community Forum - an umbrella group for about 200 local groups - adopted a motion rejecting the use of high-flow roundabouts in the city the motion is here.

http://www.galwaycityforum.ie/motions/Motion_011201.pdf
It explains some of the issues and the official attitudes behind them.

Having re-read that document, you're fudging the issue. What they reject is uncontrolled high flow roundabouts.

In fact, towards the end, they seem to come out somewhat in favour of something that for all the world, is redolent of the Magic Roundabout at Terryland: signal controlled with the main arms at evenly geometrically spaces.

Iwannahurl

Robbo wrote: »

An interesting pamphlet in which I note all the prams are attended, but I do have to laugh at the title ("That the Galway Community Forum declares uncontrolled, high capacity, roundabouts are hostile to the needs of the wider community").

The spirit of the Skibereen Eagle lives on.

And trolling this thread goes unModded...

Iwannahurl

Dream Modern Bowler wrote: »

Well there is a pedestrian crossing on the other side of the Headford road roundabout but of course thats ignored in the report.

I'm not sure of the date of the report linked to earlier, but I suspect it predates the pedestrian crossing you mention. Some of the pix look dated, though I'm open to correction on that point.

In any case the number of pedestrain crossings is inadequate. It's long past the time that pedestrians can be expected to make do with the leftovers after the motorists have been looked after first.

Robbo

Iwannahurl wrote: »

And trolling this thread goes unModded...

When the words "kill" and "maim" are thrown around like confetti, I have to take levity where I get it.

Iwannahurl

Robbo wrote: »

When the words "kill" and "maim" are thrown around like confetti, I have to take levity where I get it.

Like confetti at a funeral perhaps?

You could go here for some diversion.

biko

Iwannahurl wrote: »

And trolling this thread goes unModded...

If you have an issue with another poster, report the post.
Trying to slyly infer that a Robbo is trolling and that I'm ok with it won't make you friends.

what_traffic

Robbo wrote: »

Having re-read that document, you're fudging the issue. What they reject is uncontrolled high flow roundabouts.

In fact, towards the end, they seem to come out somewhat in favour of something that for all the world, is redolent of the Magic Roundabout at Terryland: signal controlled with the main arms at evenly geometrically spaces.

How is the issue being "fudged"?
Can you paste the text from the document that matchs what you say above?

celtictiger

Iwannahurl wrote: »

The "consensus" will change PDQ when the carrot and stick measures arrive, as they inevitably will. It's only a matter of time, post-Kyoto and in the context of EU directives and the evolution of national policy.

LOL@Kyoto - just ask China and India how thats working out for them...but thats another arguement.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Check out the NRA's National Roads Traffic Management Study if you want to see the inexorable direction of national policy.

I doubt it....people are getting sick to the teeth of pencil pushers trying to justify their existence by trying to fix things that ain't broke - which is why you see people coming out in their droves against these new proposals in the first place

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Cyclists, pedestrians and bus users are not forcing anything down anyone's throats. They're just looking for a better playing pitch. Cars, especially the single-occupant variety, take up vastly more room than active travel modes. That is now recognised in national policy, and we are now entering an era in which greater priority will be given to sustainable transport and "high-value" efficient use of the finite road space available. Welcome to the future.

LOL - you keep talking about National Policy like that makes a difference - it's National Policy to do alot of things most of which is just hot air.