Galway roundabouts set for upgrades

skelliser

another moneen!! brilliant!!

Iwannahurl

Good news. A victory for those who have the foresight to see the big picture beyond the narrow view expressed by the private car lobby in its various guises.

The key to this is not the traffic signals per se, but the bus priority measures which can now be facilitated. That, and the ability to actively manage traffic flows, which roundabouts cannot provide.

I would urge everyone to keep an eye on the implementation and ongoing operation of the traffic monitoring centre. That will have to be operational from the start to make the new signalised system work optimally.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/businessandpartners/svd-brochure-2006.pdf

http://www.scoot-utc.com/SCOOTMC3.php

http://www.konsult.leeds.ac.uk/private/level2/instruments/instrument014/l2_014a.htm

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http:/www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/regional/buses/bpf/busprioritythewayahead12/busprioritythewayaheadhtmlve1073?page=4

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Good news. A victory for those who have the foresight to see the big picture beyond the narrow view expressed by the private car lobby in its various guises.

The key to this is not the traffic signals per se, but the bus priority measures which can now be facilitated. That, and the ability to actively manage traffic flows, which roundabouts cannot provide.

I would urge everyone to keep an eye on the implementation and ongoing operation of the traffic monitoring centre. That will have to be operational from the start to make the new signalised system work optimally.

Ah yes, back to the fallacy that PT can actually solve Galway's problems on its own.

Of course this totally ignores that there is a significant volume of traffic coming in from the county, which has no option but to use private cars because there is effectively no PT access for the vast majority of the people in Co Galway who work in Galway City.

the only victory here is for a lobby that puts the needs of the very few above the many.

What we're going to have is several months (can't remember how long they siad it'd take but if the athlone bypass upgrade is any example, add at least 50% to the timeframe) of massive disruption while they "construct" the junction.

And when it all is finished we will not notice any difference. The traffic will not flow through the lights because of normal traffic light behaviour - don't pay attention to the lights and wait for somebody to blast you out of it to notice that they've gone green and you've just caused a delay. The pedestrians will just ignore the dam things anyways because they're made wait too long - again normal behaviour. The Monivea road will be swamped with people who decide to use Ballintemple and Kiltulla as rat runs to get over to the tuam rd in pretty much the same way that cregmore is used to avoid claregalway.

and people will be conned into thinking things are better when they're not.

Iwannahurl

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Good news.... rabble rabble


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Im sick of them stupid pictures, what good is that one bus getting people in from all the back roads and villages of co. Galway and co. Mayo. None that's what.

Priority should be for cars getting into the city with as little annoyance as possible not another stupid set of lights so the 3 people a day that cross the road out there can cross a bit quicker or a few half empty busses can make slightly better progress while causing hardship for all the poeple who just want to get to work and get home in the evening.

Hopefully there will be some sort of appeals process or something to get this overturned.

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

Ah yes, back to the fallacy that PT can actually solve Galway's problems on its own.

Of course this totally ignores that there is a significant volume of traffic coming in from the county, which has no option but to use private cars because there is effectively no PT access for the vast majority of the people in Co Galway who work in Galway City.

the only victory here is for a lobby that puts the needs of the very few above the many.

What we're going to have is several months (can't remember how long they siad it'd take but if the athlone bypass upgrade is any example, add at least 50% to the timeframe) of massive disruption while they "construct" the junction.

And when it all is finished we will not notice any difference. The traffic will not flow through the lights because of normal traffic light behaviour - don't pay attention to the lights and wait for somebody to blast you out of it to notice that they've gone green and you've just caused a delay. The pedestrians will just ignore the dam things anyways because they're made wait too long - again normal behaviour. The Monivea road will be swamped with people who decide to use Ballintemple and Kiltulla as rat runs to get over to the tuam rd in pretty much the same way that cregmore is used to avoid claregalway.

and people will be conned into thinking things are better when they're not.

"...the fallacy that public transport can actually solve Galway's problems on its own." Perhaps you can address that to someone who actually made such a claim.

The unsustainable chaotic shambles of Galway County Council's accumulated "planning" decisions, including the very large number of one-off houses, has indeed left Galway City with a traffic congestion legacy in which significant volumes of traffic enter -- and cross -- the city in order to access work, education, services etc.

There is also the matter of workers commuting into the city from further afield than Co. Galway, eg from Mayo. Somewhere there are maps, graphs and tables showing these commuting patterns, but I don't have them. Perhaps someone who has a handle on such things can submit actual data, rather than mere opinion.

If these traffic movements are causing congestion, then solutions will have to be found, and there may be a suite of integrated measures that could be employed to make a real dent in the problem.

In the meantime, conversion of key intersections to signalised junctions linked to a central control room is a key step in the provision of an efficient and reliable bus service.

The #9 route is one of the most successful Bus Éireann services in the country, I am told. The person who told me that knows Bus Éireann inside out, but didn't offer any hard evidence to back up the claim. However, we do know that the Doughiska service is carrying "an incredible one million passengers every year", and when you consider that Bus Éireann carried a total of "19 million passengers in the principal regional cities of Cork, Galway, Limerick and Waterford" in 2008, this seems not to be loose talk.

A cumulative total of one million passengers on one route in one year: that's "very few" is it?

Is that how it looks from behind the wheel of every single-occupant private car standing in a long line?

I don't know how many individual commuters that translates into on a daily basis, but if they were all in single-occupant cars (the mode of travel also chosen by those who "like", "want" and feel "entitled" to do so, as well as those who must out of necessity) you can be quite sure the line of cars would stretch quite a distance.

Road space is finite. Resources are finite. The ability of our society to keep providing more and more space, more and more resources and a greater level of service for private car use is finite. Bus users do not put anywhere near the same level of strain on these resources as do users of private cars. That's why bus services deserve a much better crack of the whip, and a far greater level of service of the kind that can be delivered by a traffic control system incorporating bus priority measures.

"We" will not notice any difference? "We" will see, in time. If an integrated PT-prioritising traffic control system is put in place, then bus users in the city will notice a difference. Another crucial consideration, often discounted or completely ignored by car drivers, is the fact that city buses are vastly more efficient in terms of CO2 emissions per passenger per kilometre travelled. These two factors alone are sufficient to justify the scheme, in my view.


Illustration of the relative road space used by single-occupant car drivers compared to bus passengers:







Comparison chart showing how far various modes of transport would be able to go if their CO2 emissions were limited to 30 kg per passenger:

Iwannahurl

Dream Modern Bowler wrote: »

Im sick of them stupid pictures, what good is that one bus getting people in from all the back roads and villages of co. Galway and co. Mayo. None that's what.

Priority should be for cars getting into the city with as little annoyance as possible not another stupid set of lights so the 3 people a day that cross the road out there can cross a bit quicker or a few half empty busses can make slightly better progress while causing hardship for all the poeple who just want to get to work and get home in the evening.

Hopefully there will be some sort of appeals process or something to get this overturned.

Or who want to go for a "spin" at lunchtime?

If "a few half empty buses" can carry a cumulative total of one million passengers a year, imagine what more than a few slightly more full buses could do.

You may be "sick of them stupid pictures", but they are factual and evidence-based.

Prioritising cars because their sole occupants are annoyed at being held up by a load of other single-occupant cars is what I would call stupid.

McTigs

Iwannahurl wrote: »

The #9 route is one of the most successful Bus Éireann services in the country, I am told. The person who told me that knows Bus Éireann inside out, but didn't offer any hard evidence to back up the claim. However, we do know that the Doughiska service is carrying "an incredible one million passengers every year", and when you consider that Bus Éireann carried a total of "19 million passengers in the principal regional cities of Cork, Galway, Limerick and Waterford" in 2008, this seems not to be loose talk.

A cumulative total of one million passengers on one route in one year: that's "very few" is it?

Is that how it looks from behind the wheel of every single-occupant private car standing in a long line?

I don't know how many individual commuters that translates into on a daily basis, but if they were all in single-occupant cars (the mode of travel also chosen by those who "like", "want" and feel "entitled" to do so, as well as those who must out of necessity) you can be quite sure the line of cars would stretch quite a distance.

About 3000 a day monday to saturday.

I'm sure nox and anto and other people who think like my dad would rejoice in 3000 extra cars on galways limited roads but anyone looking at the big picture can see it would be a major problem.... and not one a bypass would solve either.

As for the arguement about people having no choice but to use their car cos they are coming in from some backwater or other, i've already stated Park an Ride facilities set at key points on the outskirts would go a long way to aleviating that issue.

Single occupancy car use is the principle cause of congestion, not buses or traffic lights. This is fact and there is no way around it. We need solutions not kids throwing toys out of the pram. Reducing single occupancy car use is the key to reducing congestion. It's worked anywhere it's been tried and it would be remarkably stupid and regressive of us not not at least give it a go.

McTigs

McTigs wrote: »

About 3000 a day monday to saturday.

I'm sure nox and anto and other people who think like my dad would rejoice in 3000 extra cars on galways limited roads but anyone looking at the big picture can see it would be a major problem.... and not one a bypass would solve either.

As for the arguement about people having no choice but to use their car cos they are coming in from some backwater or other, i've already stated Park an Ride facilities set at key points on the outskirts would go a long way to aleviating that issue.

Single occupancy car use is the principle cause of congestion, not buses or traffic lights. This is fact and there is no way around it. We need solutions not kids throwing toys out of the pram. Reducing single occupancy car use is the key to reducing congestion. It's worked anywhere it's been tried and it would be remarkably stupid and regressive of us not not at least give it a go.

Buses will never be feasible for transporting people in for a sparsely populated area such as co. Galway. If people cant see that they dont have a clue.

Outer roundabouts such as birarhill are never going to have much bus traffic as the vast majority of traffic coming in is cars from all around the county. Putting lights in instead of the roundabout is going to slow the progrress of cars just as it has done at moneen because a few high horse city dwellers can rant on about how fantastic buses are, when in fact they are utterly pointless in this situation.

Traffic is not that bad in Galway, when I was driving in and out the headford road when doing my undergrad in NUIG it was twice as bad, probably up on the 3000 more figure you quoted.

This is just the anti-car brigade getting there way and because they have absolutely no understanding how important car travel is to people not living in the city.

If only things like this could be voted on, it wouldn't have a hope in hell of getting through.

antoobrien

The intercity buses (BE, gobus, citylink etc) qill continue to use the bus lane on the old dublin road, so it won't matter a damn to them.

The Ballybrit (#3) bus uses the roundabout to turn and go back in the monivea road, it now has no turning point. The only logical decision that won't cost the city council millions in upgrades of roads is to revert to the old Castlepark route. We could make it use the old road (really a country lane) that runs between the doughiska road, behind ballybrit heights and comes out a couple of hundred yards from castlepark, but that would require lots more mony to be invested int he road network in the area.

The decision to change this to a light controlled junction means that 1 (that's right a SINGLE) bus rotue will be using this "improved" bus corridor (the intercity buses all go in along the bus lane of the Dublin road), so we're destroying a junction that works perfectly well for 20 hours a day so we can lose a bus to ballybrit. Talk about shortsighted!

Well done dopes

what_traffic

Dream Modern Bowler wrote: »

If only things like this could be voted on, it wouldn't have a hope in hell of getting through.

It was voted on last Monday in City Hall by the local represenatives i.e the Cllr's?

antoobrien

Perhaps the #3 could go out the dual carriageway and turn at the roundabout at the end of the motorway. Would the extra 2km be feasible?

antoobrien wrote: »

we're destroying a junction that works perfectly well for 20 hours a day

You seem to accept that the junction doesn't work part of the time (presumably at peak times)

Dream Modern Bowler wrote: »

This is just the anti-car brigade getting there way and because they have absolutely no understanding how important car travel is to people not living in the city.

This is the city council deciding what is best for the city.

I will probably settle in the country and I wouldn't expect to have my lifestyle choice imposed on the city.

ciotog

Dream Modern Bowler wrote: »

Buses will never be feasible for transporting people in for a sparsely populated area such as co. Galway. If people cant see that they dont have a clue.

Nobody is arguing that public transport is the be all and end all of solutions, particularly for rural areas. What people are talking about is facilitating and encouraging multi-modal transport solutions. This is particularly targeted at the large numbers (see the CSO data I linked to previously) who are travelling <= 10km to work or education. You might want to look at providing some numbers to back up your arguments too.

Outer roundabouts such as birarhill are never going to have much bus traffic as the vast majority of traffic coming in is cars from all around the county. Putting lights in instead of the roundabout is going to slow the progrress of cars just as it has done at moneen because a few high horse city dwellers can rant on about how fantastic buses are, when in fact they are utterly pointless in this situation.

The conversion of roundabouts to signalised junctions isn't being driven by lobby groups - this is entirely the work of city officials. The lobby groups really don't have that kind of influence over these decisions. While many (like us in the cycling campaign) pointed out the dangers (and perceived dangers from vulnerable road users) of roundabouts in specific locations in the city this has been ignored. The solutions suggested were primarily zebra crossings and speed reduction on roundabouts with signalised junctions down the list (the former is far cheaper than the latter). The agenda here is not pro-bus/pro-pedestrian/pro-cycling.

Traffic is not that bad in Galway, when I was driving in and out the headford road when doing my undergrad in NUIG it was twice as bad, probably up on the 3000 more figure you quoted.

So why is Galway widely reported as the most congested? (c.f. http://www.motornet.ie/news/galway-tops-for-congestion-9631.html and http://www.galwaychamber.com/uploadedfiles/PRESSRELEASEBOTHARNADTREABH.doc (Word DOC))

This is just the anti-car brigade getting there way and because they have absolutely no understanding how important car travel is to people not living in the city.

Your entire focus is on traffic originating outside the city while forgetting about traffic originating inside the city, largely going really short distances. Nobody on here wants to see people travelling into the city put under undue hardship. What is being suggested, for example, is multi-modal transport solutions for them i.e. bringing the car close to the city via park & ride and the remainder completed efficiently using another mode of transport. Surely ease of parking is something to be cheered?

If only things like this could be voted on, it wouldn't have a hope in hell of getting through.

City councillors did vote on it. Granted they were probably heavily pressurised with the 'if we don't spend the money we'll lose it' argument but they are still supposed to represent us. Did you contact any of the councillors to present your arguments on where this scheme fails?

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

It was voted on last Monday in City Hall by the local represenatives i.e the Cllr's?

I mean by the people. I haven't spoken to a Galway motorist who doesn't want moneen changed back to a roundabout so I can guarantee changing any other junctions would not have a chance. The people in this thread in favour of the changes are in a tiny minority.

galwayroads

This is an absolute disgrace. The public is massively against this. This is only going to make things alot worse. I have lived in Sailin in Wellpark for the last 7 years and I use the Moneenageisha junction several times a day. Since the roundabout has been replaced the traffic congestion has been significantly worse at peak times. And not only that but at quiet times when there is hardly anyone on the road, such as a Sunday evening, you are now stuck at traffic lights for a few minutes whereas before you would just drive straight through the roundabout.

We heard all this 'high tech traffic flow technology'/'traffic control monitoring' bullsh*t when they changed Moneenagheisha and how it would cut time stuck in traffic and look how that turned out, an utter failure.

This is going to make everything a whole lot worse all over the city.

@Iwannahurl: You keep going on about buses. Can you explain what you mean by 'the bus priority measures which can now be facilitated'. I know a good few people working in Parkmore and he ones who are living on the bus route have the option of taking the bus. Some people do but some dont because they want to drive to work in the comfort of their own car, listening to their own choice of music/radio station and leaving for work when they feel like it, not to suit a bus timetable. That is reality, these people spent several grand on a car, they damn well are going to use it now even it costs them more than the bus. You are not going to make this % of people, and it is a high %, stop using their cars to go to work.

And that is just the people who live on the bus route. guess what, most people in the city (and everyone outside) aren't living on a Parkmore bus route so they drive. They are still going to drive after these changes. I appreciate all the patronising pictures you have been posting of car/bus users but you seem to be living in fantasy land with a naive belief that everyone will just start using buses and all the problems are solved. This is not going to make anyone else use buses.

I think we can all agree that from what we've seen down the years Galway has the most useless councillors in Ireland, and this will be their biggest travesty ever. They are going to have us all stuck in worse traffic for decades to come because of this joke decision that goes totally against public opinion.

galwayroads

Dream Modern Bowler wrote: »

I mean by the people. I haven't spoken to a Galway motorist who doesn't want moneen changed back to a roundabout so I can guarantee changing any other junctions would not have a chance. The people in this thread in favour of the changes are in a tiny minority.

Exactly, the general public doesnt want this. If it was put to a public vote it would be shot down in flames because we heard all the waffle before when they changed Moneenagheisha and we all know how that turned out. But now we have the same morons who ruined that junction about to botch up the rest of the city.

Everytime you are stuck for several extra minutes at each of these junctions in future, just remember who caused it.

ciotog

galwayroads wrote: »

Exactly, the general public doesnt want this. If it was put to a public vote it would be shot down in flames because we heard all the waffle before when they changed Moneenagheisha and we all know how that turned out. But now we have the same morons who ruined that junction about to botch up the rest of the city.

Everytime you are stuck for several extra minutes at each of these junctions in future, just remember who caused it.

Did you contact any of the councillors? Whatever your viewpoint, we need to make our voices heard - they're supposed to have been elected to represent the people.

Dream Modern Bowler

Dream Modern Bowler wrote: »

I mean by the people. I haven't spoken to a Galway motorist who doesn't want moneen changed back to a roundabout so I can guarantee changing any other junctions would not have a chance. The people in this thread in favour of the changes are in a tiny minority.

We elect the council to make these decisions for us. How many people would have bothered to go to any information session if there had been a local referendum? What if the same decision was made?

At the presentation by the city it highlighted that there is a problem coming out from town at Moneenageisha but that traffic flows better on all the other legs. Traffic doesn't back up onto the Bohermore roundabout anymore blocking that junction. It is far safer for pedestrians.

There is also a perception problem with roundabouts v lights. At a roundabout you are continuously inching forward so it feels like you are making progress. Lights are stop start so you do notice the time you are sitting waiting much more than when inching along.
Has anyone actually measured the time they spend commuting now v before through Moneenageisha cross?

I posted a satellite image of part of Galway in another global forum once. The only comments it got were that people had never seen so many roundabouts.

antoobrien

ciotog wrote: »

Your entire focus is on traffic originating outside the city while forgetting about traffic originating inside the city, largely going really short distances.

Lets talk some figures

The city council published a report after the last census stating that there were 18,258 private cars driving people to work & school regularly in Galway, with a further (we'll leave out passengers).

The motorway at Glennascaul (counbter is under the bridge so all this traffic is coming to the doughiska or briarhill) has an average over over 16k per day.

Claregalway has an average of over 21k per day.

the city traffic is not the problem.

johnnyk66

Dream Modern Bowler wrote: »

I mean by the people. I haven't spoken to a Galway motorist who doesn't want moneen changed back to a roundabout so I can guarantee changing any other junctions would not have a chance. The people in this thread in favour of the changes are in a tiny minority.

I'm a Galway motorist who uses the moneen junction at least twice a day and I don't want it changed back. it may on occasion take a little longer but at least i don't have to fight for road space with idiots who don't know how to use roundabouts or refuse to use them properly nor do i have to avoid pedestrians or cyclists. I haven't seen any official stats for accidents at this junction since the changeover but from personal experience I can say that I have not seen any accidents or bumps or prangs since the lights were installed and i would have witnessed a fair number when the roundabout was there.

McTigs

galwayroads wrote: »

@Iwannahurl: You keep going on about buses. Can you explain what you mean by 'the bus priority measures which can now be facilitated'. I know a good few people working in Parkmore and he ones who are living on the bus route have the option of taking the bus. Some people do but some dont because they want to drive to work in the comfort of their own car, listening to their own choice of music/radio station and leaving for work when they feel like it, not to suit a bus timetable. That is reality, these people spent several grand on a car, they damn well are going to use it now even it costs them more than the bus. You are not going to make this % of people, and it is a high %, stop using their cars to go to work.

Well now there is a better chance of their favorite song finishing before the journey ends.

Back on planet earth, Whether people enjoy taking a bus or not, there is no question that it is a far more efficiant means of moving a greater number of people. And on limited road space the most efficient means must be promoted.

ciotog

antoobrien wrote: »

Lets talk some figures

The city council published a report after the last census stating that there were 18,258 private cars driving people to work & school regularly in Galway, with a further (we'll leave out passengers).

The motorway at Glennascaul (counbter is under the bridge so all this traffic is coming to the doughiska or briarhill) has an average over over 16k per day.

Claregalway has an average of over 21k per day.

the city traffic is not the problem.

How are you comparing those counter numbers with the number of cars you've quoted to reach your conclusion? (btw the 18,258 comes from http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/CommunityCulture/ProjectsandSchemes/GalwayCityAtlas20082009/FileEnglish,5903,en.pdf if anyone wants a look)

galwayroads

McTigs wrote: »

Well now there is a better chance of their favorite song finishing before the journey ends.

Back on planet earth, Whether people enjoy taking a bus or not, there is no question that it is a far more efficiant means of moving a greater number of people. And on limited road space the most efficient means must be promoted.

Yeah, duh. But as I said the people who live on a bus lane but drive to work dont give a crap if its a "far more efficiant means of moving a greater number of people", they drive their cars regardless. Always have, always will. So its about dealing with reality, not with some ideal world situation that will never happen. And can someone explain what has removing roundabouts go to do with people taking buses? Are they putting in extra bus lanes or something?

johnnyk66

galwayroads wrote: »

I know a good few people working in Parkmore and he ones who are living on the bus route have the option of taking the bus. Some people do but some dont because they want to drive to work in the comfort of their own car, listening to their own choice of music/radio station and leaving for work when they feel like it, not to suit a bus timetable. That is reality, these people spent several grand on a car, they damn well are going to use it now even it costs them more than the bus. You are not going to make this % of people, and it is a high %, stop using their cars to go to work..

This is a good argument for bringing in congestion charges......:rolleyes:

antoobrien

ciotog wrote: »

How are you comparing those counter numbers with the number of cars you've quoted to reach your conclusion? (btw the 18,258 comes from http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/CommunityCulture/ProjectsandSchemes/GalwayCityAtlas20082009/FileEnglish,5903,en.pdf if anyone wants a look)

First up, thanks for the link, I have a copy saved but I couldn't find the file on the website (because I changed the name to something meaningful).

My analysis is quite simple, here are the facts and assumptions it's based on:
1) both sets of figures (NRA & Census) are for bi-directional journeys (going to and from school or work)
2) the city council figures include the school traffic (something other people citing this figure have not stated, or stated that school traffic is extra)
3) The traffic at Glennascaul is all coming into town as it the counter is after the off ramp (it has to exit at one of 2 junctions that are in the city council area)
4) The Claregalway counter is before the N18 split in Calregalway. I've put a guesstimate of a minimum of 50% traffic going into Galway town, with the remainder going out the N18. This is based on the figures for gort being 10k before the M18 was built (about 25% of that appears to be gort traffic). It's a guess that I believe overestimates the amount of traffic using the N17/N18 to go north/south and not travel into Galway.
5) NRA figures for Glennascaul and Claregalway counts the total number of vehicles (there is a figure for HGVs included which counts articulated & rigid trucks, buesses & towed trailers).
6) There are 9 roads feeding into Galway city from various points - from West to East: Bearna, Moycullen, Headford, Tuam, Monivea, Dublin Rd (motorway), Old Dublin Road, Gort Road - on which we have two counters within 10 miles of Galway city.

I don't have any actual traffic counter figures for Galway city (I've never seen or heard of any being published) so it's not exactly like for like and the city council figures doesn't take into account retail traffic. For that reason I'll assume that retail city based traffic equals the work & school traffic (I think this is a significant overestimate, but for the sake of argument we'll use it).

Based on all the above my estimate for Galway city internal traffic is 36,500 trips.

Based on all the above my estimate for Galway County traffic going into & out of the city area is a minimum of 27,000 trips per day.

With these figures we're still talking about approx an extra 75% of the total city travel pattern being added to the traffic daily by two roads.

I don't have any idea how to come up with an accurate figure for the other 7 roads but I don't think at least 40k trips from the county each day would be a grossly high figure.

I'm aware that there are a number of weaknesses in this, especially as to the distribution of traffic once in the city area, but I think that where I've been generous I've been very generous and where I've been conservative I've been Thatcherite about it.

McTigs

galwayroads wrote: »

Yeah, duh. But as I said the people who live on a bus lane but drive to work dont give a crap if its a "far more efficiant means of moving a greater number of people", they drive their cars regardless. Always have, always will. So its about dealing with reality, not with some ideal world situation that will never happen. And can someone explain what has removing roundabouts go to do with people taking buses? Are they putting in extra bus lanes or something?

Well i certainly hope that is part of the overall plan, It's the only way to make buses more attractive.

"they drive their cars regardless, always have always will" I honestly believe that will/would change with increased bus lanes. When the choice becomes sit in traffic for an hour or whiz down the bus lane and be there faster without the stress there's only one sane choice.

Park and Ride for rural commuters should also be part of the overall plan.

dloob

galwayroads wrote: »

Exactly, the general public doesnt want this. If it was put to a public vote it would be shot down in flames because we heard all the waffle before when they changed Moneenagheisha and we all know how that turned out. But now we have the same morons who ruined that junction about to botch up the rest of the city.

Everytime you are stuck for several extra minutes at each of these junctions in future, just remember who caused it.

Hi I'm a Galway motorist.
I think Moneen is a great success and a vast improvement on the roundabout.
I use Moneen much more now than I did before the junction was put in thanks the better flow of traffic through it at peak times.
I hope the briarhill change can be just as big a success.

Iwannahurl

galwayroads wrote: »

This is an absolute disgrace. The public is massively against this. This is only going to make things alot worse. I have lived in Sailin in Wellpark for the last 7 years and I use the Moneenageisha junction several times a day. Since the roundabout has been replaced the traffic congestion has been significantly worse at peak times. And not only that but at quiet times when there is hardly anyone on the road, such as a Sunday evening, you are now stuck at traffic lights for a few minutes whereas before you would just drive straight through the roundabout.

We heard all this 'high tech traffic flow technology'/'traffic control monitoring' bullsh*t when they changed Moneenagheisha and how it would cut time stuck in traffic and look how that turned out, an utter failure.

This is going to make everything a whole lot worse all over the city.

@Iwannahurl: You keep going on about buses. Can you explain what you mean by 'the bus priority measures which can now be facilitated'. I know a good few people working in Parkmore and he ones who are living on the bus route have the option of taking the bus. Some people do but some dont because they want to drive to work in the comfort of their own car, listening to their own choice of music/radio station and leaving for work when they feel like it, not to suit a bus timetable. That is reality, these people spent several grand on a car, they damn well are going to use it now even it costs them more than the bus. You are not going to make this % of people, and it is a high %, stop using their cars to go to work.

And that is just the people who live on the bus route. guess what, most people in the city (and everyone outside) aren't living on a Parkmore bus route so they drive. They are still going to drive after these changes. I appreciate all the patronising pictures you have been posting of car/bus users but you seem to be living in fantasy land with a naive belief that everyone will just start using buses and all the problems are solved. This is not going to make anyone else use buses.

I think we can all agree that from what we've seen down the years Galway has the most useless councillors in Ireland, and this will be their biggest travesty ever. They are going to have us all stuck in worse traffic for decades to come because of this joke decision that goes totally against public opinion.

That bit in bold is probably the most honest pro-car (and pro-roundabout) argument of the lot.

The alleged popular resistance to the removal of roundabouts is not about buses, not about pedestrians, not about cyclists, not about road safety for vulnerable road users, not about mobility and access for non-car users, and not about rational transport policy.

It's not even about effective and sustainable solutions to ongoing traffic congestion problems.

It's special pleading based on (some? many?) motorists' sense of entitlement. We've spent a bunch of money on our car and our in-car entertainment, we may even have taken out a big loan so that we're up there with the Joneses in the best model of car with the latest reg that we can afford, so we're damn well going to use it. And if enough of us want to travel that way then we damn well should be given the lion's share of the road space to do so, because we don't want to held up by all those other private car users who feel just as entitled as we do. And if the current amount of road space isn't enough, give us more. And when that fills up, just build more roads.

Of course providing efficient and reliable bus services won't change that mindset, which is why carrot and stick are needed. If it's futile to appeal to some people's intelligence, maybe the way to get their attention is to target their pocket.

Still, maybe it won't come to that. If enough road space is reallocated exclusively to sustainable transport modes, those who see the writing on the wall can just get on with it while the rest can sit in the traffic queues listening to their choice of music. Personally I would recommend music from the Baroque period: apparently doing so can lower blood pressure, aid relaxation and improve the ability to learn.

The CD player in my car is broken, so I guess I'll just have to suffer in silence.

johnnyk66

johnnyk66 wrote: »

This is a good argument for bringing in congestion charges......:rolleyes:

There is never an argument for congestion charges, infringing on peoples rights to use the roads they already pay for in tax, vrt on their cars, vat on petrol. Congestion charges and the anti car brigade can feck right off.

Car drivers contribute much more than non-car users and this should be reflected in setting up a traffic system to make progress with a car easier.

antoobrien

johnnyk66 wrote: »

This is a good argument for bringing in congestion charges......:rolleyes:

We can start by charging people with access to bus services within Galway city after all this plan is supposed to be bus friendly (bit of a laugh when only 1 route will end up using this junction). The only way it can be bus friendly is to force cars off the road, so instead of hitting the people who have not choice lets hit those that have alternatives.

We can get transponders for each car in the Galway City area, every time it's moved it'll cost €1. And get revenue to run it.

Can you imagine the fun that'll cause.

antoobrien

Deleted User wrote: »

Perhaps the #3 could go out the dual carriageway and turn at the roundabout at the end of the motorway. Would the extra 2km be feasible?

no stops = no revenue & all costs for BE, whereas a couple of KM shorter = less costs to offset the lower revenue. Not likely.

Deleted User wrote: »

You seem to accept that the junction doesn't work part of the time (presumably at peak times)

I'm well aware of the problems that happen there, but instead of doing something to address the "part of the time" problem out city council have decided to create a 24/7 one instead. The lights at claregalway only moved the problem of the cast amount of traffic coming into Galway from JJ Flemmings to Claregalway, this mess can't even claim to do that.

Very simple solution - get the traffic wardens out there at peak days a week, it'll take years for the extra wages to clock up to the capital and ongoing maintenance costs.

Deleted User wrote: »

This is the city council deciding what is best for the city.

It's barely inside the city zone (the boundry is ballybrit road) - it has almost no effect on the internal city traffic, but has lots of effect on people trying to get into and out of town, so I'd have to disagree with that assessment.