Attn All Irish MMA clubs - Blood Tests

IFS.NI

Answers

ISKA - yes blood tests required for Use if elbows

Insurance premiums - not an issue if a private test kit is used and sent to testing lab or done with false name at gum clinic.

costs - kits cost £30,Raise-them-all has said 20-30euro guys from the south can get them, the gum clinic is private and free.

cowzerp

IFS.NI wrote: »

Answers

ISKA - yes blood tests required for Use if elbows

Insurance premiums - not an issue if a private test kit is used and sent to testing lab or done with false name at gum clinic.

costs - kits cost £30,Raise-them-all has said 20-30euro guys from the south can get them, the gum clinic is private and free.

A health cert with a wrong name on it is pointless from a promoters point of view, if testing for your own benefit that's ok but not for proof of health.

Could people give links to where we can get all these as it sounds unrealistic and hear say without.

Raze_them_all

cowzerp wrote: »

A health cert with a wrong name on it is pointless from a promoters point of view, if testing for your own benefit that's ok but not for proof of health.

Could people give links to where we can get all these as it sounds unrealistic and hear say without.

As I said mine's from my gp that I've been going to since I was in school, added to the fact I'm down in the country doctors are cheaper here(though mine is cheap even for here)

Dublin has walk in std clinics that are free if I'm right. I imagine they'd send results out to your own doc so thats one option people could take?

Clive

I used to live beside a GUM/STI clinic (yes I'm classy) and while it is free, you'll need to take a full day off work if not two to get in. At any rate abusing a free public health clinic for your hobby is unfair in my opinion. Going to a GP for blood tests will cost about a hundred quid for most people.

If we're to line up with the European shows the test will need to have been no more than six months ago, so two a year will be needed.

IFS.NI

GUM clinic tests have been used for years and have no ties to your medical record with your GP.

If you are worried about what the promoters think change it slightly like Mr P Coser for example. Tell the promoter u didn't give ur real name in the clinic but put it similar so they know it's you.

If people are still not happy with that then there's the £30 sample kit that gets sent to a trying lab which is confidential.

Listen guys there's nothing in place at the minute, anything is better than nothing at this stage of the game.

Clive

Once you start getting into fake names it removes the point of testing. Any fighter with a blood borne disease will just send a clean friend and tell them what name to put down.

Who draws the blood for any sample kit? A doctor, which is the bulk of the cost.

IFS.NI

No a nurse can draw blood and is free up north, not sure about down south though.

medicsie

IFS.NI wrote: »

No a nurse can draw blood and is free up north, not sure about down south though.

Down south is phlebotomists and nurses who then pass it off to the lab in the hospital who will then send results to your GP.

The only way we can do this is if lads go to their GP/Hospital and have blood taken which is then sent to a state lab (i.e. the hospital lab) to be tested.
Your GP will also take blood on request and send it off to the hospital lab.

None of this 'johnny buys a package for 35 quid which comes in the mail and then we send it back to god knows where'.

The way forward for Irish MMA is safety first, and although it is a dangerous sport there are measures including infection control that can help minimise the risk of long term disability.

This also means coaches must start wearing their PPE in the cage, popping a pair of gloves on only takes around 6-7 seconds!.

IFS.NI

Well, nurse can draw blood in the north, i did say i didnt know what way it worked down south.

I am trying to come up with answers that are doable.

Heres the site that is used by many of the UK shows - you say 'God knows where'

Well here it is - definately not some cowboy outfit and have been highly recommended to me by shows in England.

http://www.midlandpathologyservices.co.uk/index.html

"Our professional staff are all qualified, experienced Medical Laboratory Scientists or Healthcare Scientists. All our patient facing staff comply with the enhanced CRB regulations. Our support and admininistration staff have all worked for the company for many years.
Geoff Grimshaw – F.I.B.M.S. Managing Director

Geoff began his career at Little Bromwich Fever hospital (now Heartlands) in 1961, qualifying in 1968 with a Fellowship in Haematology and Microbiology.
He transferred to Marston Green Maternity Hospital as Chief Technician in Charge of Haematology and Microbiology in 1972.
He was appointed as Pathology Manager to commission the opening of the Laboratories at Birmingham BMI Priory Hospital in 1980. Midland Pathology was founded by Geoff in 1989 and the company has grown steadily, offering a quality, personalised service to all of our clients.
Jenny Grimshaw – Company Secretary

Jenny started life as a nurse, progressing into Medical Marketing at The Woodbourne Priory Hospital, AMI Priory Hospital and Edgbaston Nuffield Hospital, prior to joining Geoff as Company Secretary and handling the sales and marketing of Midland Pathology Services.
Clients

Clients include a number of Insurance companies and their intermediaries, Universities, several Police Forces, Premier League Football Clubs, Cruise Lines, Embassies, Occupational Health companies, Private Hospitals, General Practitioners and Health Clinics. We also do a number of clinical trials. A large number of our clients have been with MPS Ltd for twenty years plus. We are very proud of the reputation we have built up over many years trading"

IFS.NI

I do agree on the glove policy though you mentioned also - something very easily done.

Sid_Justice

Genuine question

Why should coaches be wearing latex gloves?

medicsie

IFS.NI wrote: »

Well, nurse can draw blood in the north, i did say i didnt know what way it worked down south.

I am trying to come up with answers that are doable.

Heres the site that is used by many of the UK shows - you say 'God knows where'

Answers that are doable include having lads done by their local doctor, which I would be in full support of.

Personally I have never heard of that crowd,and have never talked to anyone who has used them before.

How would an irish based promoter feel about using results from a UK based business that they would have never heard about and or used before?.

The cost will not reduce significantly in using these places as you still have the need for a licenced health care practitioner or registered medical practitioner to draw the bloods in the first place, they're not going to do it for free.

Don't get me wrong i'm all for doing the blood tests etc, but I would not be in support of a private lab.

medicsie

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Genuine question

Why should coaches be wearing latex gloves?

Protection from infection from numerous sources e.g. blood borne pathogens.

It's the same reason the ref wears them, it's hardly for fashion purposes!.

IFS.NI

medicsie wrote: »

How would an irish based promoter feel about using results from a UK based business that they would have never heard about and or used before?.

.

As an Irish based promoter myself the information and references is coming from highly respected MMA promotions in England so yes I would be happy with the service and there approval, lets face it what else is anyone doing? Answer absolutely nothing.Just because people here havent heard about them doesnt mean they are not legit - until now I didnt even know there was such services available but then again I was looking. I am also pretty sure for such an operation they would need to be registered and approved.

Where people get their tests is irrelevant as long as its a reputable source ie own gp, gum clinic or recognised private consultants/testing facilites who are registered and approved.

medicsie

IFS.NI wrote: »

As an Irish based promoter myself the information and references is coming from highly respected MMA promotions in England so yes I would be happy with the service and there approval, lets face it what else is anyone doing? Answer absolutely nothing.Just because people here havent heard about them doesnt mean they are not legit - until now I didnt even know there was such services available but then again I was looking. I am also pretty sure for such an operation they would need to be registered and approved.

Where people get their tests is irrelevant as long as its a reputable source ie own gp, gum clinic or recognised private consultants/testing facilites who are registered and approved.

Would you be willing, as an Irish based promoter, to stand over the results for a fighter from this facility, based on simply viewing a website?.

And it is relevant where people get the tests, because it needs to be acceptable to the fighters, promoters, and the medical professionals who will view the tests to determine whether or not a fighter is fit to fight.

IFS.NI

medicsie wrote: »

Would you be willing, as an Irish based promoter, to stand over the results for a fighter from this facility, based on simply viewing a website?.

And it is relevant where people get the tests, because it needs to be acceptable to the fighters, promoters, and the medical professionals who will view the tests to determine whether or not a fighter is fit to fight.

If the company is approved, legal and registered then yes of course.

Kal_El

Ok so if the promoters in Ireland want this to go ahead the plan is to have every active fighter in Ireland have a Blood test every 6 months otherwise he/she cant compete?

IFS.NI wrote: »

If the company is approved, legal and registered then yes of course.

Approved and registered by who?

Another side question. Since this is not in effect in the UK and some of the Irish fighters compete there does this mean that if an Irish guy fights in say England or Scotland and his opponent dosnt have a blood test does this mean they would have to get a new one after that fight?

IFS.NI

Kal_El wrote: »

Ok so if the promoters in Ireland want this to go ahead the plan is to have every active fighter in Ireland have a Blood test every 6 months otherwise he/she cant compete?

Approved and registered by who?

Another side question. Since this is not in effect in the UK and some of the Irish fighters compete there does this mean that if an Irish guy fights in say England or Scotland and his opponent dosnt have a blood test does this mean they would have to get a new one after that fight?

I am not a blood test moderator nor do I have all the answers hence why I am looking everyones input on what could work,before talking about shows in uk etc we could start on a smaller scale to see what works best locally with a few shows perhaps test piloting it if thats what the MMA majority want.

Also labs Approved by Council/Government/Health Authorities - they will need a license to be approved as a legit testing company.

I have raised the issue and have got people talking about it if nothing else but I have said my part on the matter and will leave the discussion for whoever else wants to add or detract from it.

If not we can continue until someone catches Hep B/C or worse before we try and do anything about it.

thanks to all who answered

Kal_El

IFS.NI wrote: »

I am not a blood test moderator nor do I have all the answers

OOPSIE! My mistake i assumed because you brought the topic up that you knew what you were talking about.:rolleyes:

IFS.NI wrote: »

I have raised the issue and have got people talking about it if nothing else but I have said my part on the matter and will leave the discussion for whoever else wants to add or detract from it.

So all you wanted was to get people talking? Push it through man dont just walk away now and forget about it. Did JK walk away when he suggested changing the rules sets last year? No he pushed it through and things are better for it now.:)

IFS.NI wrote: »

If not we can continue until someone catches Hep B/C or worse before we try and do anything about it.

Come on pick up the toys Paul stop being all doom and gloom cos people are asking questions!:)

This is a good idea. Make it work.

MMAIRELANDFAN

Been the sceptic that i am!

I'm just thinking who is trying to benefit from this personally

if everyone has blood test's then that will suit ISKA rules

just putting it out there

Sid_Justice

MMAIRELANDFAN wrote: »

Been the sceptic that i am!

I'm just thinking who is trying to benefit from this personally

if everyone has blood test's then that will suit ISKA rules

just putting it out there

David Jones

I scanned through the previous pages. I would be in favour of introducing blood tests for fighters and officials but I do believe that the costs which vary greatly depending on where you are, will deter people from having them done.

Anything to increase fighter and in this case official safety would get my vote. I also think that in Europe we tend to be followers rather than leaders in everything, it would be nice to be pioneers for MMA rather than simply follow what UK or USA does. I think until you have something resembling the Nevada State Athletic Commission you arent going to see regular testing for either blood or PEDs. Fighters dont pay for their own blood tests in the states from my experience, they are paid for by the promotion they are contracted to, they also get paid more even as first timers for fights.

medicsie

David Jones wrote: »

I scanned through the previous pages. I would be in favour of introducing blood tests for fighters and officials but I do believe that the costs which vary greatly depending on where you are, will deter people from having them done.

Anything to increase fighter and in this case official safety would get my vote. I also think that in Europe we tend to be followers rather than leaders in everything, it would be nice to be pioneers for MMA rather than simply follow what UK or USA does. I think until you have something resembling the Nevada State Athletic Commission you arent going to see regular testing for either blood or PEDs. Fighters dont pay for their own blood tests in the states from my experience, they are paid for by the promotion they are contracted to, they also get paid more even as first timers for fights.

A fair point made above re promoters taking the cost on board of blood tests of fighters they have contracted in.

It would help if we had a regulation body who could give a definite answer on what is essentially a grey area unless agreed upon by most of the promoters.

As you say it would be nice to be a pioneer for the safety aspect of MMA, and would really help going forward, especially since we have the new BIG Magazine coming out shortly which we could use for publication and an explanation or debate on why it's necessary/needed.

Open Question:
Do any of the promoters on here see any reason why they would not be in favour of footing the bill for the blood tests for fighters?.

John Ferguson

medicsie wrote: »

Open Question:
Do any of the promoters on here see any reason why they would not be in favour of footing the bill for the blood tests for fighters?.

Firstly, I'm in favour of anything that makes the sport safer

The difference that I see is that in Ireland fighters don't contract to one promotion in particular. If a fighter was contracted just to Cage Contender then I would have no issue footing the bill. But I don't see any promoter forking out for something that can be used elsewhere. Maybe the fighter could cover the cost then promoters pay an amount in addition to purse each time that fighter is on his card?

I've been talking to different coaches and clubs about this for some 6 months now in private and getting very mixed feedback. Is it the case where coaches will say that they will only let the guys they look after fight people with up to date blood tests?

Is this something just for the pro side of the sport or do we include semi pro?

What is the current system in Mauy Thai?

Kal_El

I think if your gonna bring it in for the pros youd have to do it for the Semi and the Ammy fighters aswell. They bleed too. But pros would be a first step.

I dont want to take from the thread but from your last post Mr Ferguson would you/could you contract fighters to Cage Contender?

John Ferguson

Kal_El wrote: »

I think if your gonna bring it in for the pros youd have to do it for the Semi and the Ammy fighters aswell. They bleed too. But pros would be a first step.

Another good point Kal.

Kal_El wrote: »

I dont want to take from the thread but from your last post Mr Ferguson would you/could you contract fighters to Cage Contender?

We have had loose 2 show agreements in the last year tbh. But it's not something I see working on a domestic level. But you know me, I'll never say never to anything

Kal_El

John Ferguson wrote: »

Another good point Kal.

Gonna try to make a habit of it now.:)

John Ferguson wrote: »

But you know me, I'll never say never to anything

Well whatever floats your boat Mr Ferguson, Ill not judge you.:pac:

medicsie

John Ferguson wrote: »

Is it the case where coaches will say that they will only let the guys they look after fight people with up to date blood tests?

Is this something just for the pro side of the sport or do we include semi pro?

What is the current system in Mauy Thai?

Coaches should always take that outlook, only allowing fights between individuals who are fit and healthy (to include blood tests).
However up to now it has not been a widespread practice with regard to blood testing, though raze them all has been a perfect example of fighters doing the right thing on their own back, in their own time.

This is something that arguably can be done for the semi pro, but if you begin at the top then it will trickle down in a matter of months and eventually any fighter who is new to the sport will have to be tested.

Open Question:
If it is the case where fighters cannot be contracted to one single promotion, how could the blood and health testing be funded?

Perhaps when we get a MMA Regulator set up here it could be included in the membership fee?.

cowzerp

The only combat sports people who require blood tests are Pro's-and proper pro's in saying that as in they make a living out of the sport.

If its to happen it will have to start at pro, see how it goes and then faze it in at semi pro level

Regulator! don't go there as it's just not going to happen and it been bandied about now and again helps no 1.

Without a world governing body then it's unworkable, then it filters down to national governing bodies, provincial etc,, MMA is not in that position and probably never will be due to how its set up.

John Ferguson

medicsie wrote: »

Open Question:
If it is the case where fighters cannot be contracted to one single promotion, how could the blood and health testing

As I mentioned above, if the fighters or clubs get the tests done as a promoter in theory I would have no issue in paying an agreed "Bloods" fee separate to the purse.

medicsie

John Ferguson wrote: »

As I mentioned above, if the fighters or clubs get the tests done as a promoter in theory I would have no issue in paying an agreed "Bloods" fee separate to the purse.

In theory would some promoters escape from having to pay this fee, given that a fighter may have had a blood test in the previous 30 days? e.g. Cage Contender proximity to Man of War.

Or would it be a blood test for every promotion they fight on, which in some cases could mean two blood tests a month to fight on two separate promotions?.

John Ferguson

medicsie wrote: »

In theory would some promoters escape from having to pay this fee, given that a fighter may have had a blood test in the previous 30 days? e.g. Cage Contender proximity to Man of War.

Or would it be a blood test for every promotion they fight on, which in some cases could mean two blood tests a month to fight on two separate promotions?.

I don't think it needs to be that complex tbh.

The only way I see it could work is that a set amount is paid by every promotion to each fighter on each event. It would be the same amount for every fighter and every promotion. But it would only work if clubs got on board and ran with it, at the end of the day they supply the fighters and they take the decisions where their lads fight and what safety protocols they will fight under.

Barry.Oglesby

medicsie wrote: »

It would help if we had a regulation body who could give a definite answer on what is essentially a grey area unless agreed upon by most of the promoters.

As we've seen, there's really no point in agreeing anything since people can just do what they want anyway. All it will take is for one promotion to accept a non-tested fighter and the whole thing falls apart.

As you say it would be nice to be a pioneer for the safety aspect of MMA, and would really help going forward, especially since we have the new BIG Magazine coming out shortly which we could use for publication and an explanation or debate on why it's necessary/needed.

I would question why any regulatory body would require a magazine before it had a committee/structure/standards

Open Question:
Do any of the promoters on here see any reason why they would not be in favour of footing the bill for the blood tests for fighters?.

Because you could fork out for a lad's medical and have him stiff you at the last minute because you have no real contract with him.

It's your own health and if you can't be arsed spending a few quid on a medical check well... I think a far better system would be to have the fighters pay for a medical themselves but then up the standard of purses for A class fighters.