Cyclists and one way streets...

maximoose

Dear bicycle boys and girls...

On my walk into work this morning I saw a Garda stop a cyclist who was going down Drury Street in Dublin (one way street around by George's Arcade) and tell them, ridiculously sternly, that they can't go against traffic on a one way street.

I'd never seen this happen before, but every day see plenty of cyclists doing the same thing on various parts of my daily walk so didn't think it was an offence tbh. Majority of the time the ones I see doing it have a bit of sense... if I'm crossing the road before I see them they'll slow down and let me pass, and I'll always let them pass if I spot them. BUT occasionally there is the odd tool who will throw a tantrum, ring their little bell and shout "Get off the f*ckin road!".

Is the Garda right? Am I perfectly entitled to tell these minority of obnoxious cyclists to kidly go and f*ck themselves?

Lumen

I had to avoid one this morning on Baggot St. Fúckin' muppet. I shouted at him but he probably didn't hear over the music playing on his headphones.

I'm considering a "gob in the face" strategy for future liasons.

Cookie_Monster

Every day on the n11 cycle paths I meet minimum of 2 on the wrong side going the wrong way, usually 4.

GTDolanator

[/QOUTE]I'm considering a "gob in the face" strategy for future liasons.[/QUOTE]


let us no how ya get on with that

Lumen

GTDolanator wrote: »

let us no how ya get on with that

Couriers are exempt, obviously. They're too scary.

RobertFoster

maximoose wrote: »

BUT occasionally there is the odd tool who will throw a tantrum, ring their little bell and shout "Get off the f*ckin road!".

Unless it was a carbon fibre bell, that sounds like a DublinBike to me.

daragh_

I cross Drury Street daily on my commute, coming from Digges Lane heading towards Fade Street. (I go down Digges Lane because it has cobbles, my 30 seconds a day of Pavé riding roleplay).

3 or 4 times in the last month I've had to swerve to avoid other cyclists coming up Drury St the wrong way. All of them were on Dublin Bikes. Make of that what you will.

GTDolanator

Lumen wrote: »

Couriers are exempt, obviously. They're too scary.

im beginning to like you.

i see it daily,fcuks sake im guilty too but it does tend to be
the blue bike brigade who are at fault.it boggles my mind how
uncourtious people on those bikes are

seamus

Seems to be a much larger Garda presence at the moment. Particularly on the Rathmines road over the last week, I've seen a number of Gardai (foot and cyclist kind) hiding behind the street furniture and stopping RLJ's.

I saw one particular commuter, that I'd recognise because he's wearing very colourful lycra that simply doesn't work with his "form", getting pulled over one morning. Every evening so far since then he's been stopping at red lights

Good form.

QueensGael

maximoose wrote: »

Am I perfectly entitled to tell these minority of obnoxious cyclists to kidly go and f*ck themselves?

Yes, totally! I was nearly pushed off my bike under a bus on the Mahon Bridge (Ringsend Road over the Canal) by a muppet going the wrong way. Wasn't a BlueBikeBrigade, but I've seen plenty of them doing the same at the Parliament St/Dame St area (there were cops stopping them there back around October/November, but I haven't seen any in a while). Feel free to give them a roar!

Beasty

maximoose wrote: »

Is the Garda right?

Yes

maximoose wrote: »

Am I perfectly entitled to tell these minority of obnoxious cyclists to kidly go and f*ck themselves?

You risk a 2 week ban if you are caught using such expletives on camera;)

tomasrojo

It's illegal as things stand, but there was some talk in Dublin City Council of putting in contraflows for cyclists on one-way streets. Obviously, once one of these is put in place, the practice is permitted. It's a common enough practice in other cities in Europe.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055839125

kona

****in gob****es, I hope Darwin sorts them out and they get what they are aiming for:rolleyes:

Saw some Ballbags cycling the wrong way up the quays!:o by the TempleBar Arch, yup no more then 5M away from where some poor guy got killed going the right way. I wanted to give them both a slap for being ****ing retarded.

Another few one way streets full of these Knackers ( you know how there is euro and rules for that, well these sacks of piss ride either BSO or Dublin Bikes) , are That 1 way thats full of busses and ambulances and cars parked on bends by the rotunda hospital, great place to show of your lack of braincells, another is the 1 way at the start of parnell St by the rotunda (does the rotunda deliver a above proportion of mongo babies?) then theres capel street, then you have the Profesional Piss sacks who cycle the wrong way down the road, probably too indie to cycle the right way.

At least if the do get hit, there wont be much of a mess due to their lack of grey matter.

Lumen

tomasrojo wrote: »

It's illegal as things stand...It's a common enough practice in other cities in Europe.

Apologist!

It is also common practice to cycle on the RHS of the road. Off you go. :pac:

seamus

tomasrojo wrote: »

It's illegal as things stand, but there was some talk in Dublin City Council of putting in contraflows for cyclists on one-way streets. Obviously, once one of these is put in place, the practice is permitted. It's a common enough practice in other cities in Europe.

While I do like the idea, the first thing that springs to mind is that a contra-flow for cyclists needs to be a separated lane to prevent conflicts.

And then the problem is that cyclists get confused and you get people cycling the wrong way down the contra-flow. This is the main reason why I stopped using the contra-flow lane at Busaras/Custom House Quay. All too often you'd encounter someone coming down the wrong way and scowling at you, or a pedestrian walking in the lane with their back to you, presuming that the cycling traffic was coming the other direction.

tomasrojo

Yeah, that's actually a problem with all cycle lanes in Ireland; you tend to meet cyclists using them to go the wrong way. The Custom House one is unique in that a majority of people seem to use it to go the wrong way!

petethedrummer

In my shared space anarchist utopia these people would be lauded for their free spirit.

Undercover Elephant

daragh_ wrote: »

3 or 4 times in the last month I've had to swerve to avoid other cyclists coming up Drury St the wrong way.

Bah. A week ago, I saw a cyclist going the wrong way down the M50. After due reflection I decided that this was safer than going the right way down the M50. (No, it wasn't a blue bike.)

Lumen

petethedrummer wrote: »

In my shared space anarchist utopia these people would be lauded for their free spirit.

In my pragmatist utopia these people cop the f'ck on before they free the spirit of someone who was quite happy being alive.

Mr. Presentable

Oakley Road, Ranelagh. Every time I use it there's some plank on a bike coming along the wrong way. It's narrow, and with cars parked along the right. So now I stop in the road and let them decide which footpath they want to cycle on, because I am not giving way to them. I'm certain I have encountered the same cyclist more than once.......

07Lapierre

petethedrummer wrote: »

In my shared space anarchist utopia these people would be lauded for their free spirit.

If we lived in shared space anarchist utopia, we wouldn't have "one way" streets no?

el tel

Vehicles travelling in the correct direction should be able to joust with the idiots.

Btw. Heard the Rotunda has to be knocked down. Apparently it's full of cracks.

petethedrummer

07Lapierre wrote: »

If we lived in shared space anarchist utopia, we wouldn't have "one way" streets no?

Damn right we wouldn't.

buffalo

tomasrojo wrote: »

It's illegal as things stand, but there was some talk in Dublin City Council of putting in contraflows for cyclists on one-way streets. Obviously, once one of these is put in place, the practice is permitted. It's a common enough practice in other cities in Europe.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055839125

Much as I dislike the salmon cyclist breed, if there's a particular street where it's a repeated offence, I think it prudent to put in a contra-flow lane. It's obviously a good route/shortcut for somewhere, and anything that encourages cycling should be welcomed.

But as seamus says, it needs to be well marked to prevent cyclist vs cyclist vs pedestrian etc conflict.

osiri

salmon cyclists...gas...

They should just paint contra flow lanes on to the roads to legitimise it. Was on the Velib in Paris and on tiny one way streets with cars parked both sides there were contra flow bike lanes outside of the cars. You sometimes couldn't get by cars without both parties stopping. Kept car speeds down though and worked fine, especially for tourists like myself who would otherwise get lost following one way streets.

tomasrojo

buffalo wrote: »

Much as I dislike the salmon cyclist breed, if there's a particular street where it's a repeated offence, I think it prudent to put in a contra-flow lane. It's obviously a good route/shortcut for somewhere, and anything that encourages cycling should be welcomed.

But as seamus says, it needs to be well marked to prevent cyclist vs cyclist vs pedestrian etc conflict.

http://memex.naughtons.org/archives/2010/12/02/12385

Someone probably has quite a lot of useful data from the dublinbikes scheme about "desire lines" for cyclists, given that you can see where bikes start and end their journeys, and how long they take. It would probably be instructive to examine this and plan a way to let cyclists travel these ways legally in as far as they can be accommodated.

I'm not advocating letting cyclists do whatever they want, but Dublin city centre needs to be made more "porous" for cyclists.

NeedMoreGears

I've met a few of the salmon people at the Rotunda and going down the north keys. I try to stay left and let them deal with the on-coming traffic, which they were attempting to do anyway.

buffalo

tomasrojo wrote: »

Someone probably has quite a lot of useful data from the dublinbikes scheme about "desire lines" for cyclists, given that you can see where bikes start and end their journeys, and how long they take. It would probably be instructive to examine this and plan a way to let cyclists travel these ways legally in as far as they can be accommodated.

The cycling desire lines I'm aware of are Clare St-Leinster St, from Merrion Square to the Nassau St DB station http://goo.gl/maps/AGPh and Lombard Street.

Mucco

tomasrojo wrote: »

http://memex.naughtons.org/archives/2010/12/02/12385

Someone probably has quite a lot of useful data from the dublinbikes scheme about "desire lines" for cyclists, given that you can see where bikes start and end their journeys, and how long they take. It would probably be instructive to examine this and plan a way to let cyclists travel these ways legally in as far as they can be accommodated.

That's a good find, but are you sure 'someone' is working on this. Maybe Dublin Cylce Campaign should get onto it. That sort of information is too valuable to waste.
Original Paper

theofficepest2

People of iiireland

Is it possible to traverse the city while only cycling the wrong way up one way streets?

If so, I am all for this, clearly it is the safest way to cycle, due to being able to see the lunatic cagers approach rather than being trampled from behind.

If it's not possible, surely it's possible if you combine pedestrian only areas and say cycling on the luas tracks (watch out they are slippy and you may fall into them) and then don't forget footpaths yum it's deffo on the cards

:pac: Ourp

tomasrojo

Mucco wrote: »

That's a good find, but are you sure 'someone' is working on this. Maybe Dublin Cylce Campaign should get onto it. That sort of information is too valuable to waste.
Original Paper

I'm not aware of anyone working on it. I wonder whether the data might be made public, if it isn't already. I might email Andrew Montague. I've been meaning to email him about his speech the other day anyway.

doozerie

tomasrojo wrote:

I'm not advocating letting cyclists do whatever they want, but Dublin city centre needs to be made more "porous" for cyclists.

In principle I agree with that, but in practice I believe that too many people are too selfish and too stubborn for it to ever be feasible. As an example, people currently cycle the wrong way down one-way streets right now despite them knowing that it is illegal (for what that is worth as the risk of being penalised appears to be extremely low) but also knowing that it is dangerous to themselves. Such people are clearly not constrained by laws or wit and the more that laws are relaxed, or removed, to accommodate them, the more they are likely to push the limits of what they are allowed to do.

As a cyclist I already often find myself having to go to lengths to avoid a collision with other people on bikes who choose to ignore the existing rules of the road and I expect such incidents would increase if some of their actions were legalised. As a measure of the stupidity of some, on several occasions I've encountered bike salmon on Westland Row - it's a 2-way street but they simply couldn't be bothered to get to the other side of the road to traverse it. Of course, if the roads were segregated even further to add space for the likes of cycling salmon then that would reduce the dangers of "salmoning" but certainly some of my commute roads around Dublin would not be easy to adapt to this (many of them can't safely accommodate the existing cycle tracks, for example) so it would pose a serious challenge to both the council purse strings and to the road designers (who have demonstrated themselves to be severely challenged already!). Plus, I think that segregation of traffic is generally the wrong approach anyway, but that is a different conversation really.

tomasrojo

I liked blorg's post on this, back in the day.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64717343&postcount=60

sammalone

Should i start a new thread or will I add it in here - but what do people make of cylists cycling along footpaths? Especially narrow enough ones!!

Lumen

sammalone wrote: »

Should i start a new thread or will I add it in here - but what do people make of cylists cycling along footpaths? Especially narrow enough ones!!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055434174

seamus

sammalone wrote: »

Should i start a new thread or will I add it in here - but what do people make of cylists cycling along footpaths? Especially narrow enough ones!!

There's never any call for it. Perfectly big road there.

petethedrummer

doozerie wrote: »

As an example, people currently cycle the wrong way down one-way streets right now despite them knowing that it is illegal (for what that is worth as the risk of being penalised appears to be extremely low) but also knowing that it is dangerous to themselves. Such people are clearly not constrained by laws or wit and the more that laws are relaxed, or removed, to accommodate them, the more they are likely to push the limits of what they are allowed to do.

It may be annoying but is it really that dangerous? I encountered 2 salmon in the city centre this morning and we passed by without incident? Both on Dame St. in rush hour. I'd say at least once a week I meet a salmon just across from the Olympia. Sometimes a dublinbiker, though usually not.

I think we need fewer laws, lights & white lines and more opportunity to use common sense.

osiri

seamus wrote: »

There's never any call for it. Perfectly big road there.

Have you ever cycled on cobblestones...unpleasant. I have to admit to a sneaky cycle on the pavement coming through templebar on occasion. I try to go slow and only do it if there are no peds as the pavements are pretty small, cause those cobblestones are a real pain especially on the dublin bikes.

Cookie_Monster

sammalone wrote: »

Should i start a new thread or will I add it in here - but what do people make of cylists cycling along footpaths? Especially narrow enough ones!!

it's illegal so don't do it, not that that seems to bother anyone.

I rarely do it but sometime do when traffic is blocking the lane or to avoid red lights

07Lapierre

sammalone wrote: »

Should i start a new thread or will I add it in here - but what do people make of cylists cycling along footpaths? Especially narrow enough ones!!

Its pretty popular in Chile seemingly!
http://www.gadling.com/2011/03/03/downhill-bike-race-in-chile-is-insanity-at-its-finest/?ncid=&a_dgi=aolshare_email

manwithaplan

theofficepest2 wrote: »

People of iiireland

Is it possible to traverse the city while only cycling the wrong way up one way streets?

If so, I am all for this, clearly it is the safest way to cycle, due to being able to see the lunatic cagers approach rather than being trampled from behind.

If it's not possible, surely it's possible if you combine pedestrian only areas and say cycling on the luas tracks (watch out they are slippy and you may fall into them) and then don't forget footpaths yum it's deffo on the cards

:pac: Ourp

There is a whiff of Joyce about this post - "a good puzzle would be to cross Dublin without passing a pub". I will channel Leopold Bloom as I shoot down Harcourt Street, along Stephen's Green West, down Grafton Street, around College Green, along Hawkins Street, down the south quays and over Matt Talbot Bridge. I may have to risk looking like what Brother Kona calls a "ballbag" by sporting a straw boater.

Rew

I've nearly been hit a couple of times as a pedestrian looking left for traffic and having a bike come from the right on South William St. I'm more care full now and look for bikes as well as cars so its no big deal

While driving, I came around the corner on to Bride Road from Bride St near Christ Church a while back 3 guys coming the wrong way down a double lane one way st, it was nearly a head on as the other lane had cars in it as well, could easily have cause a car behind me to plough into me as well. They headed off the wrong way up Bride St

From the cycling I've done around town so far it defiantly something that should be looked at. Exceptions put on sign posts for specific streets.

Knasher

sammalone wrote: »

Should i start a new thread or will I add it in here - but what do people make of cylists cycling along footpaths? Especially narrow enough ones!!

To be honest I think we should be allowed provided we stay below a certain speed and if the footpath isn't so narrow that any approaching pedestrians would be forced onto the road in order to pass us.

But it definitely shouldn't be the default, there are a couple cycle "lanes" near me which were just painted onto a footpath so all you have is an undulating surface (for entrances), a high kerb which makes it difficult yo get onto and pedestrians constantly getting in the way. Much prefer to be on the road.

Lumen

Knasher wrote: »

To be honest I think we should be allowed provided we stay below a certain speed and if the footpath isn't so narrow that any approaching pedestrians would be forced onto the road in order to pass us.

But it definitely shouldn't be the default, there are a couple cycle "lanes" near me which were just painted onto a footpath so all you have is an undulating surface (for entrances), a high kerb which makes it difficult yo get onto and pedestrians constantly getting in the way. Much prefer to be on the road.

In my experience, the sort of cyclists who hop on to the footpath tend to be the same ones that hop back off again without looking, right into my path.

Lots of cyclists use the footpath entrances at the top of the Phoenix Park, and 99 times out of 100 it's fine, but that other 1% they almost collide with some runner or walker who is out on sight on the approach.

Bikes are fast moving and hazardous to pedestrians, and should be on the road where pedestrians have an expectation of danger.

GTDolanator

salmon cyclists???

Cookie_Monster

GTDolanator wrote: »

salmon cyclists???

cycling against the stream, ie up instead of down a one way street

doozerie

petethedrummer wrote: »

It may be annoying but is it really that dangerous? I encountered 2 salmon in the city centre this morning and we passed by without incident? Both on Dame St. in rush hour. I'd say at least once a week I meet a salmon just across from the Olympia. Sometimes a dublinbiker, though usually not.

I think we need fewer laws, lights & white lines and more opportunity to use common sense.

Sometimes it's not dangerous, as such, as the salmon cyclist will stop at the sight of an oncoming cyclist and keep into the kerb, but sometimes they don't stop at all and seem to expect cyclists like me coming the other way to pull out into motorised traffic to my right to leave space for them. My experience in recent months suggests that the latter obnoxious behaviour is becoming the more common reaction amongst salmon cyclists. Pedestrians frequently demonstrate the same attitude along Westland Row too, where their desire to get to their train outweighs any safety concerns for cyclists in the cycle track who have to swerve to avoid them as the pedstrians use the cycle track as a means of overtaking everyone on the footpath.

As for fewer laws, I actually believe that fewer rules of the road could actually improve things as people are obliged to think more about what they are doing (one reason why I'd happily see cycle lanes removed, for example). However, applying that theory properly by getting a rid of a lot of road markings and traffic controls would require a sense of social responsibility amongst the road users whereby they actually consider the consequences of their behaviour/actions on others. Unfortunately though there seems to me to be a complete lack of social responsibility demonstrated by many road users these days, be they cyclists, drivers, or whatever, and in that kind of atmosphere common sense is in short supply and impatience is in abundant supply. Maybe everyone would just calm down if the road markings and rules were removed/relaxed, but I think I might avoid the roads for the first couple of weeks until all of the pent up anger has been vented.

doozerie

GTDolanator wrote: »

salmon cyclists???

Cyclists in such a rush to get home for a shag that they ignore all rules of physics and common sense, and ultimately die young.

petethedrummer

doozerie wrote: »

Unfortunately though there seems to me to be a complete lack of social responsibility demonstrated by many road users these days, be they cyclists, drivers, or whatever, and in that kind of atmosphere common sense is in short supply and impatience is in abundant supply. Maybe everyone would just calm down if the road markings and rules were removed/relaxed, but I think I might avoid the roads for the first couple of weeks until all of the pent up anger has been vented.

I see what your saying alright, but everytime a traffic light goes out people immediately become more aware and considerate of others.

osiri

petethedrummer wrote: »

I see what your saying alright, but everytime a traffic light goes out people immediately become more aware and considerate of others.

I think the idea you are getting at is "Shared Space"
Essentially when car drivers don't automatically feel like they have right of way they slow down and look out for other users, at least in theory.
I have seen it in action occasionally and I think it can work well in some situations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space

doozerie

petethedrummer wrote:

I see what your saying alright, but everytime a traffic light goes out people immediately become more aware and considerate of others.

I wonder though how much that has to do with the fact that a single instance of a lack of traffic lights creates a different scenario which prompts people to be extra cautious, and perhaps even more considerate towards everyone else at the junction. Human nature being what it is, if there were no traffic lights at any junctions would people just become complacent and treat each junction with even less caution than they do right now for junctions controlled by traffic lights, or would they remain diligently careful junction after junction?

I believe that experiments have been carried out in at least two cities in Europe where all traffic lights were powered off for some number of days/weeks, and I read of a similar experiment somewhere in Australia. From what I understand traffic flow improved and there were no obvious decreases in safety, but any time I've casually tried to find any info on these experiments online I haven't been able to do so, so I've only got anecdotes to go on about the real results. This is getting off-topic, I realise, but if anyone has any links to info on those experiments I'd be interested to have a read.