LCD lag in older games.

o1s1n

I was playing Metal Slug and Alien Soldier on my LCD tv recently and didn't do nearly as good as usual. I thought it might be LCD lag as I usually play on a CRT...but no, it couldn't have been that. I r just fail.

However, after further testing, I think LCD lag for older games is a bigger issue than I had thought. I'm really after noticing this as I've switched from using an LCD panel with my Dreamcast to a CRT - I'm doing a hell of a lot better in shooters. In fact, bits I was having difficulty with previously now seem like a total breeze. The response time is insanely good. It's one of those things you don't realize is a problem until you experience how it's 'meant' to be played (ie the difference between 50/60hz)

I'm considering running my 360 through my CRT just to see if there's any improvement in Deathsmiles...or for playing anything else competatively.

I'm not too up on LCD lag, does anyone know how low current technology can get it? Can it get it to a point where it's not noticeable for games? Obviously some games it doesn't really matter, but when you're playing a twitchy shooter every frame of animation helps.

Or are you always just better off sticking with a CRT?

Retr0gamer

If you are really lucky you are looking at 160 ms lag times. You might get that on a very good TV with Game mode enabled. However if your TV is doing any post processing then it can jump to 300 to 400 or above lag times. You usually don't notice this unless you are playing online or in a game that requires precise timing, such as shmups, fighting games or some fast paced action games (Alien Soldier would definitely fit the bill). I'll try find some digital foundry articles about it since they definitely have the most knowledge on it.

Retr0gamer

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-lag-factor-article

Ok these guys probably have better figures than me.

Retr0gamer

Sorry, there's a bit here about lag in TV's

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-console-lag-round-two-article?page=2

o1s1n

Excellent stuff, cheers for the links! I think I may have been too eager while buying that LCD monitor.. reckon I'll just stick to the CRT for all shooters.

As a matter of interest, do you do that Ikaruga spinning boss on a CRT or an LCD

ondafly

one thing I've always noticed with the xbox 360 in particular is lag when using the joypads wirelessly vs having them plugged in via USB (play&charge cable) to the xbox itself.

The SFIV TE sticks for the 360 are wired for a reason !

o1s1n

ondafly wrote: »

one thing I've always noticed with the xbox 360 in particular is lag when using the joypads wirelessly vs having them plugged in via USB (play&charge cable) to the xbox itself.

The SFIV TE sticks for the 360 are wired for a reason !

So if you'er playing SF IV online with a wireless pad and an LCD..you have lag from the internet, lag from your LCD and lag from your controller.

That's a lotta lag.

Yreval

Another good resource on this topic: http://shoryuken.com/f177/new-definitive-hdtv-lag-faq-174085/

Viewsonic have a reputation for producing high-quality HD displays with no noticeable lag - the example given in the above link, the Viewsonic CD4620, has (at worst) 4ms (1/4 of a frame) of lag. I, too, can personally attest that their reputation is well-earned, as a Viewsonic monitor (albeit a different model to the one I mentioned earlier) is the monitor of choice for the fighting game scene here in Belfast.

(tl;dr: BUY VIEWSONIC PRODUCTS)

pdbhp

Well I find noticable lag in my TV when playing any console.
Once I put in the HDMI with the Xbox360 and set the TV to game mode the lag disappears:D
I find the CRT with the Xbox fairly rubbishy as the picture quality suffers without a good TV.

Orim

ondafly wrote: »

one thing I've always noticed with the xbox 360 in particular is lag when using the joypads wirelessly vs having them plugged in via USB (play&charge cable) to the xbox itself.

The SFIV TE sticks for the 360 are wired for a reason !

Sorry but that's all in your head. There is ~1ms of lag from using wireless controllers from the testing I've read. Also the plug and play kits do not make your pad act in the same manner as a wired pad because the plug and play does not have the abilty to transfer data.

With all LCD displays (aside from ridicolously expensive ones) you are going to have some input delay. Generally monitors are lower then TVs. Game Mode on TVs can be hit or miss. I've read about some TVs that have more delay when on game mode. If your TV has a VGA port you can use that to eliminate a lot of delay as they don't put the post processing on the VGA port generally.

Viewsonic and Asus are very good for not having a lot of delay on most of their monitors. They will be low enough that you either will never notice it or it won't affect you.

Samsung on the otherhand aren't great and most of their stuff will be high 20s at the lowest.

Also worth noting that some CRTs will have input delay. It's a small number but a CRT does not guarantee no input delay.

Retr0gamer

o1s1n wrote: »

As a matter of interest, do you do that Ikaruga spinning boss on a CRT or an LCD

When I beat Ikaruga it was on the gamecube on a CRT.

K.O.Kiki

ondafly wrote: »

one thing I've always noticed with the xbox 360 in particular is lag when using the joypads wirelessly vs having them plugged in via USB (play&charge cable) to the xbox itself.

The SFIV TE sticks for the 360 are wired for a reason !

And now to play the Devil's advocate:

Joystick Input lag thread on SRK

Though if you think you're losing to lag, you're almost always losing to more than lag.