Is an orgasm so important ???

Biscuits.

krudler wrote: »

seriously, what? you say people who have sex with no orgasm arent enjoying it then say you dont orgasm during sex yourself? make up your mind.

No! I'm saying not orgasming make sex, OBVIOUSLY, less enjoyable. And I do ****ing orgasm.

Seriously, wtf?!

"I don't orgasm once during sex" means I orgasm more than once!

Will you all leave me the **** alone now? Thanks. I view orgasms as more important than you guys do, end ****ing of.

Wibbs

Can we ease up on the badgering and nit picking in this two horse race please? It does nada for the discussion.

krudler

Biscuits. wrote: »

No! I'm saying not orgasming make sex, OBVIOUSLY, less enjoyable. And I do ****ing orgasm.

Seriously, wtf?!

"I don't orgasm once during sex" means I orgasm more than once!

Will you all leave me the **** alone now? Thanks. I view orgasms as more important than you guys do, end ****ing of.

Fair enough, you coulda just said that? " I dont orgasm once" implies you dont at all. Its kinda pointless to give out people dont get what you're talking about when its not clear to begin with.

back on topic.

Faith

Biscuits. wrote: »

No, I'm not saying why have sex if you don't orgasm, I'm saying it'll be far less enjoyable.

This is simply not true in the slightest.

If you think orgasms are the only point of sex, then that's your prerogative. But that's just your opinion and it does not apply to the rest of us. Nor does help the OP in this situation.

OP, it could just be that you're not sexually compatible. But again, there's no point asking us because only you can decide if your relationship is good enough to survive a potential dearth of orgasms.

Wibbs

Not the only point no, but if I wasn't getting the big O I don't think I'd bother TBH. Actually I know I wouldnt. It would be a frustrating waste of time. Especially if I could get myself off and she couldn't. I could hear the speech of "It's not you, it's me, I think we're better as mates". and go off and find someone sexually compatible. Now that's just me and me as a particular guy and men would be more "goal orientated" orgasm wise*. But I've known women with very "male" sexual responses so it wouldnt come as a shock to discover that some women wouldnt be bothered with sex if an orgasm was unlikely or never.






*We expect one every time. You'll never see a male magazine article entitled "how to have an orgasm".

Biscuits.

Faith wrote: »

This is simply not true in the slightest.

If you think orgasms are the only point of sex, then that's your prerogative. But that's just your opinion and it does not apply to the rest of us. Nor does help the OP in this situation.

OP, it could just be that you're not sexually compatible. But again, there's no point asking us because only you can decide if your relationship is good enough to survive a potential dearth of orgasms.

You've probably never had an orgasm if you think sex is more enjoyable without one. Sorry, but that is absolute bull****.

Now leave me alone like I requested.

Wibbs wrote: »

*We expect one every time. You'll never see a male magazine article entitled "how to have an orgasm".

It's true and I've never sought out the advise myself because I want to orgasm. I think it's important, like men in a lot of cases would, so this is relevant to the OP. Like anything else in life you'll have to want it and not settle for being unsatisfied. I think you guys are kidding yourselves saying that you don't want orgasms and sex is great without one.

boomkatalog

Eh I never said I didn't want an orgasm :P And I didn't read it anywhere in the thread. It's just not the be all and end all.

Morgase

Biscuits. wrote: »

You've probably never had an orgasm if you think sex is more enjoyable without one. Sorry, but that is absolute bull****.

Now leave me alone like I requested.

It's true and I've never sought out the advise myself because I want to orgasm. I think it's important, like men in a lot of cases would, so this is relevant to the OP. Like anything else in life you'll have to want it and not settle for being unsatisfied. I think you guys are kidding yourselves saying that you don't want orgasms and sex is great without one.

Who said anything about not wanting orgasms? I think what's being said is that orgasms aren't the be all and end all for penetrative sex. There's enough people saying that it's not; are you saying all these people are deluded about their own enjoyment?

Anyway, OP, personally I'd find it difficult to stick around for ever if it looked like orgasms with my partner would never be forthcoming. But then it's hard to see how that's going to happen if you're not being honest with him. As it stands, he thinks he's doing all the right things.

immachickbtw

Wibbs wrote: »

Not the only point no, but if I wasn't getting the big O I don't think I'd bother TBH. Actually I know I wouldnt. It would be a frustrating waste of time.

+1 :pac:

Flexiblefriend

OP AGAIN...................I am meeting my boyfriend tomorrow night and I will do my best to talk to him...I really dont want to hurt his feelings but I think after reading all your comments that I need to tell the truth and hopefully he will be ok with it. I will let ye know how I get on

immachickbtw

It might not feel like it at the time but it'll be for the best in the long run. Good luck with it!

Acacia

Biscuits. wrote: »

Why have sex if you don't have an orgasm? It defeats the purpose, I will not enjoy sex if there's no climax, would you watch entertainment (ie. films, dramas, what have you) if there was no climax? More importantly, would you be entertained?

I don't mean to be tough on women who are ignorant to real sexual pleasure but if you don't orgasm...it doesn't even count. If you don't tell a man how to please you then you're not doing anything for him or for you.

Really? I have to say, I've made myself orgasm plenty of times before... but have never actually got there so to speak with any partners (having said, I've only slept with 2 guys, and neither of them were hugely experienced, nor was I, so I'm not 'blaming' anyone, just saying it hasn't happened yet...) Does sex really 'not count' if the girl doesn't orgasm?

I've never lied about the fact that my BF hasn't got me off. I know he would like if I did, but I wouldn't lie to him to save his feelings, I don't really see the point. Tbh, I don't see it as a huge problem but that's just me.

Having said that, my friends think it's weird that my BF has never made me orgasm. *shrug* I'm just not too fussed over it I guess, it'll happen when it happens. Different strokes for different folks,(;)) ha!

CroatoanCat

OP, to answer your question - yes, orgasms are vital for me and, no, I couldn't stay in a relationship that was orgasm-free. I have never understood the notion that sex can be just as satisying without an orgasm. Nor can I comprehend how anybody could describe climax-free sex - even, or perhaps especially, when compared with sex that did feature orgasm - as some of the best sex ever. This is definitively not an attack on or questioning of anybody's position in this thread; as I said, it is simply something that utterly befuddles me. Perhaps I am odd .

For me, sex without orgasm is just frustrating and disappointing. I refer of course, in using the word "sex", not just to penetration but to sexual interaction of various kinds. I mean, I'll often do things with the OH that are just for him - quick, rough and ready penetration; long and teasing BJs; whatever. And that's enjoyable because it is for him, and I like to please him. But when I'm fully engaged in a sexual encounter, horny and good to go, I want to have an orgasm. To me, it's otherwise pointless and frustrating. Of course the journey is wonderful, and detours are fun, but ultimately I want the release and pleasure of orgasm. That, for me, is the point.

Anyhoo, OP, I hope you can talk to your boyfriend about this. You've got yourself into a tricky situation. It sounds like you've tried to show him what you need and, in fairness, it seems like the poor bloke is really trying his best to make it happen . All you can do at this point is be honest, in as gentle and sensitive a way as possible. He hasn't done anything wrong, and nor have you. As other posters said, these things can cake time and practice! Try to suss him out on the idea of toys etc. He may surprise you by being well up for it! Let us know how you get on....

Novella

I don't think orgasms are the be all and end all when it comes to sex. I think the issue here is that you're lying, OP. I totally understand it though. I have faked numerous times with various different partners because honestly, I found it ridiculously hard to ever let myself go enough to be able to get to that stage. During sex my mind would just be racing a mile a minute - is this good for him, what could I do to make it better, do I look okay and on and on and on.

I think being relaxed is really important. I don't know if this is a problem for you, but if you're worried, be it about your performance or whatever, it can affect your ability to orgasm. I think sometimes you just need to be a little bit selfish - not wonder if it's good for him, but how it is for you.

I'd stop pretending. You probably won't get to orgasm if you carry on like this. You're sort of just putting yourself under more pressure because you start to think of appropriate times to fake and what you should do to make it seem authentic etc. It's simply occupying your mind and taking away from what's really happening. Plus, as others have mentioned, he thinks he's doing it for you when in reality, he isn't.

Try to just enjoy your partners touch, get lost in it. Sounds cheesy, but maybe it would work.

Count Duckula

Am I the only one who thinks it's a bit sad that some people consider twenty minutes of sex only tedious build-up to twenty seconds of orgasm?

Seriously, "wasting" all that time to achieve something so transient must be a real drag.

On topic: when I got with my girlfriend, she didn't orgasm for a long time. It took me a while to learn her body, and her a while to teach me. Even now, we don't get there every single time, but I don't think she's ever once faked it and I'm much happier for that. That she couldn't get there only meant the two of us knew we had to keep trying. The moment you start faking it you pretty much kill any chance you have of getting there properly.

rainbow kirby

Count Duckula wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks it's a bit sad that some people consider twenty minutes of sex only tedious build-up to twenty seconds of orgasm?

I'm with you on this one, the journey is a big part of the fun.

strobe

Flexiblefriend wrote: »

OP AGAIN...................I am meeting my boyfriend tomorrow night and I will do my best to talk to him...I really dont want to hurt his feelings but I think after reading all your comments that I need to tell the truth and hopefully he will be ok with it. I will let ye know how I get on

From what you have said I get the impression the guy is very sensitive?

Maybe a demi-lie would be better than full on truth.

Rather than tell him you never orgasm with him, tell him you had a 'super mega orgasm' (or something not so 'snowboardy') before and ask for him to try for that. ...and then etc (everything everyone else said). That way you don't have to let him know he hasn't scored a goal but can still encourage him to score a hat trick {these soccer references working?}.

LegacyUser

I (female) don't look to orgasm during sex, it's very difficult for me to let other people go there with me but I have an intense need to go to that place with other women. It's like I get to experience it through them because I won't allow myself to.

baldymac

so your faking an orgasm to keep him happy, not nice to start off with but, surely the guy must no you are faking it, like the signs of a woman when she does is pretty obvious

making your gf orgasm is a turn on for men, if a guy cant make her cum, its like what have i done wrong why cant i make her cum, could be a number of reason's,

mostly i make my gf orgasm, sometimes 3 times of she dont get to senistive to soon, she cant help it, its all in the technique.

it may take sometime but i sure it can happen,

PomBear

Should point some men can tell if you're faking or not

Joe10000

Sometimes you just click with someone in bed and sometimes you don't.

Up-n-atom!

I'd go along with the majority of the posts here and say that while sex can be a good experience and enjoyable without orgasming, I'd feel pretty short changed if I never came at all. OP, you said you've tried getting your boyfriend to copy what works for you and it didn't work - have you tried actually giving him a hand (so to speak) while having sex? Maybe if you both worked together, with you doing what you like to yourself with him or while he does something else, it might work better. And try and relax and enjoy it as well, without worrying whether the big 'O' is going to come or not - although at this stage that might be easier said than done.

Ickle Magoo

I love the journey and the physical closeness and I certainly love the build up - but that build up has to lead somewhere or I'd just end up built up, frustrated and annoyed. So while orgasm isn't the be all and end all - for me, it's still damn important to having really satisfying sex/fun.

First off OP, honesty and openness is key. If you are faking nothing is going to change and you are going to end up getting into the habit of using fake queues rather than striving for the real ones. Be honest about what does it for you and what doesn't and relax and have some fun finding out how to get there.

All the best. :cool:

Biscuits.

CroatoanCat wrote: »

OP, to answer your question - yes, orgasms are vital for me and, no, I couldn't stay in a relationship that was orgasm-free. I have never understood the notion that sex can be just as satisying without an orgasm. Nor can I comprehend how anybody could describe climax-free sex - even, or perhaps especially, when compared with sex that did feature orgasm - as some of the best sex ever. This is definitively not an attack on or questioning of anybody's position in this thread; as I said, it is simply something that utterly befuddles me. Perhaps I am odd .

For me, sex without orgasm is just frustrating and disappointing. I refer of course, in using the word "sex", not just to penetration but to sexual interaction of various kinds. I mean, I'll often do things with the OH that are just for him - quick, rough and ready penetration; long and teasing BJs; whatever. And that's enjoyable because it is for him, and I like to please him. But when I'm fully engaged in a sexual encounter, horny and good to go, I want to have an orgasm. To me, it's otherwise pointless and frustrating. Of course the journey is wonderful, and detours are fun, but ultimately I want the release and pleasure of orgasm. That, for me, is the point.

Anyhoo, OP, I hope you can talk to your boyfriend about this. You've got yourself into a tricky situation. It sounds like you've tried to show him what you need and, in fairness, it seems like the poor bloke is really trying his best to make it happen . All you can do at this point is be honest, in as gentle and sensitive a way as possible. He hasn't done anything wrong, and nor have you. As other posters said, these things can cake time and practice! Try to suss him out on the idea of toys etc. He may surprise you by being well up for it! Let us know how you get on....

This is basically what I'm trying to say!

Minus the icky blowjob crap.

Mallei

It surely must get to the point where if your partner simply isn't doing it for in bed then you have to get rid? It's a failing typical of this gender; that we accept less than the best because our men can't perform. Maybe it's just me, but if my partner can't perform - even with months of guidance - then he's out. Maybe he can find a woman who'll accept an innately unsatisfying sex life. More likely he'll just end up watching more porn.

I am one of the majority of women who cannot climax from penetrative intercourse. Almost 80% of women cannot, and yet this society leads us into believing that we should be effortlessly achieving orgasm through penetrative sex. This in turn makes the men believe we should be, and leads to (1) women feeling disillusioned and unhappy when they can't achieve what they "should" be able to, and (2) men being lazy in the bedroom and thinking that they can just pump away to their delight and we'll somehow climax as a side-effect.

Frankly, penetrative sex does very little for me. Sure, it feels nice, but I can't climax from it. The point of recreational sex is to orgasm, is it not? I think a lot of women accept penetrative sex as "enough" because their men want them to; I genuinely believe that most women would be far happier in an oral-sex only relationship than they would be in a penetrative-sex only relationship. It already bothers me enough that common practice seems to be to "get the woman off first" with some oral, before moving onto the "main course" which is the penetrative sex. Newsflash, guys: penetrative sex might be your main course, but frankly we can take it or leave it.

And to any woman out there claiming, "oh but sure I like regular sex it feels nice" are you seriously telling me it feels nicer than oral sex, or using a toy specifically designed to stimulate all the right spots on our body? That not having an orgasm is somehow preferable to having an orgasm? I don't doubt you can "cope" with not having an orgasm, but given the choice why would you ever choose not to have it? We as a gender are so eager to give our men the sex that they enjoy that we deliberately stop ourselves having the sex we enjoy.

How about we try asking some men about whether they'd be happy to have sex without orgasm? Hell, let's even put it into practice. Next time you're with your guy tell him you're done before he can finish and expect him to just shrug and get on with it. He'll not put up with that, so why should we?

Adrian009

Mallei is right. Easily 80% of women fail to orgasm from penetrative sex. Perhaps that changes over time, the more intimate you become with a partner. Easily 90% of women I've been with orgasamed through oral sex. And that's important because they told me they liked it!:D

If you are not honest with your partner, how can he ever please you?

Fact of the matter is, sex is HUGELY important in a relationship. Its the most filthy, disgusting, obscene activity - or should be!;):D;) - two people can get up to without their clothes, so its not supriseing that we find it difficult to cope with some aspects of it.

Tell you what, next time you get a chance, spend a day together, just the two of you, doing whatever it is you like. And have some drink (but not a lot!) before you get intimate, dance, be naughty, and above all else, HAVE FUN! Tell each other stupid jokes, watch a silly movie, LAUGH A LOT! Sex is not a competition; when you feel most relaxed and at ease with the world (and your partner), the earth may indeed move!

Adrian009

I sometimes wonder if the prevelence of porn has made us all think like porn stars? Sex is so much more than just orgasms. But yeah, its important.

My fave sexual activity is giving oral sex, closely followed by recieving same. I enjoy it because I love to see my partners enjoying sex, and I've never been able to understand why some guys refuse to do it. Guys, what's not to like???

Communication is SO important between the genders.

Adrian009

Flexiblefriend wrote: »

OP AGAIN...................I am meeting my boyfriend tomorrow night and I will do my best to talk to him...I really dont want to hurt his feelings but I think after reading all your comments that I need to tell the truth and hopefully he will be ok with it. I will let ye know how I get on

Best of luck!

polly78

[QUOTE=fee fi fo fum;71691370

An orgasm is effectively a state of mind and i couldn't feel better connected to my boyfriend that when we're fused this way.[/QUOTE]

If you really believe this I doubt you've ever had one.

For OP, you should know yourself how important this is to you, for me it would be a deal breaker, esp if you're contemplating this relationship being long term, jeez imagine it!!

--LOS--

ye I think it is important, I would be pretty frustrated if I didnt but it definitely doesnt have to be purely from penetration. And I would never lie about it, what's the point, dont do that op

Flexiblefriend

Up-n-atom! wrote: »

- have you tried actually giving him a hand (so to speak) while having sex? Maybe if you both worked together, with you doing what you like to yourself with him or while he does something else, it might work better.

OP here....Yes I have guided his hand to show him what I like and he follows me....the minute I stop guiding him though he seems to lose direction (so to speak)....I didnt Orgasm last nite and he knows because I told him the truth, I will continue to be truthful and we can work at it and hopefully things will improve.
Either way he is a great guy and I will be staying with him, this is not a deal breaker for me I have realised. I like all the fun we have in bed and I can live in hope of the occasional Orgasm...or maybe regular orgasm as we continue to enjoy being together.....Thanks everyone !!!:)

Wibbs

Mallei wrote:

Newsflash, guys: penetrative sex might be your main course, but frankly we can take it or leave it.

No, you can take it or leave it. You're falling into the boringly common trap of extrapolating from the subjective. In any event I've always been somewhat dubious of this "the vast majority of women can't orgasm from penetration" statistic. It came mostly from a "survey" of Shere Hite, one that was up there with Kinsey on non cultural bias and accuracy. Actually lower than Kinsay and that's saying something.

IME it's an individual and age thing. IE the amount of women who can't cum at 20 from vaginal stimulation tends to be a very different figure at 30. Plus if one buys into the notion that purely vaginal stimulation is mostly a non starter then you're buying into the notion that the female orgasm is a vestigial thing, not a primary biological need. Primate research and common logic would suggest otherwise. Hell a fair few lesbians use penetration as a means of getting to the big O.

Meh IMHO the female sexual response, though so studied in one way is also ignored in a sideways fashion in another way. Maybe it's the complexity involved? And ye are complex. Well complexish. Though I think it's as much to do with the ego of some men and indeed women in the mix as far as the research and the practice goes.

EDIT From my own life? A couple of exes of mine couldn't cum from penetration. No way no how. Yet after me they could wth the next guy*. Other exes couldn't before me, but with me could. And yes I'm long enough in the tooth to know the fakers**. So same boringly constant techniqie in the case of yours truly, same *ahem* anatomy too and yet very different orgasmic outcomes? What does that tell you?




* I'm close to some of my exes so we talk about this shíte

**Yes you are obvious, unless you're some 21 year old ex virgin.

polly78

Wibbs wrote: »

No, you can take it or leave it. You're falling into the boringly common trap of extrapolating from the subjective. In any event I've always been somewhat dubious of this "the vast majority of women can't orgasm from penetration" statistic. It came mostly from a "survey" of Shere Hite, one that was up there with Kinsey on non cultural bias and accuracy. Actually lower than Kinsay and that's saying something.

IME it's an individual and age thing. IE the amount of women who can't cum at 20 from vaginal stimulation tends to be a very different figure at 30. Plus if one buys into the notion that purely vaginal stimulation is mostly a non starter then you're buying into the notion that the female orgasm is a vestigial thing, not a primary biological need. Primate research and common logic would suggest otherwise. Hell a fair few lesbians use penetration as a means of getting to the big O.

Meh IMHO the female sexual response, though so studied in one way is also ignored in a sideways fashion in another way. Maybe it's the complexity involved? And ye are complex. Well complexish. Though I think it's as much to do with the ego of some men and indeed women in the mix as far as the research and the practice goes.

EDIT From my own life? A couple of exes of mine couldn't cum from penetration, dick in pussy action. No way no how. Yet after me they could wth the next guy*. Other exes couldn't before me, but with me could. And yes I'm long enough in the tooth to know the fakers*. So same boringly constant techniqie in the case of yours truly, same *ahem* anatomy too and yet very different orgasmic outcomes? What does that tell you?




* I'm close to some of my exes so we talk about this shíte

**Yes you are obvious, unless you're some 21 year old ex virgin.

The female orgasm is no more complex than the males. For most guys a fake orgasm would appear very "real", (her word is usually enough, sad but true), on the plus side it is so easy for a guy to know if a girl has just really had one, but a lot of guys haven't a clue. I think a girls orgasm is her own responsibility.

parker kent

Wibbs wrote: »

No, you can take it or leave it. You're falling into the boringly common trap of extrapolating from the subjective. In any event I've always been somewhat dubious of this "the vast majority of women can't orgasm from penetration" statistic. It came mostly from a "survey" of Shere Hite, one that was up there with Kinsey on non cultural bias and accuracy. Actually lower than Kinsay and that's saying something.

+1 to this. It is no coincidence that her name spells out S.Hite

LegacyUser

Wibbs wrote: »

No, you can take it or leave it. You're falling into the boringly common trap of extrapolating from the subjective. In any event I've always been somewhat dubious of this "the vast majority of women can't orgasm from penetration" statistic. It came mostly from a "survey" of Shere Hite, one that was up there with Kinsey on non cultural bias and accuracy. Actually lower than Kinsay and that's saying something.

IME it's an individual and age thing. IE the amount of women who can't cum at 20 from vaginal stimulation tends to be a very different figure at 30. Plus if one buys into the notion that purely vaginal stimulation is mostly a non starter then you're buying into the notion that the female orgasm is a vestigial thing, not a primary biological need. Primate research and common logic would suggest otherwise. Hell a fair few lesbians use penetration as a means of getting to the big O.

Meh IMHO the female sexual response, though so studied in one way is also ignored in a sideways fashion in another way. Maybe it's the complexity involved? And ye are complex. Well complexish. Though I think it's as much to do with the ego of some men and indeed women in the mix as far as the research and the practice goes.

EDIT From my own life? A couple of exes of mine couldn't cum from penetration. No way no how. Yet after me they could wth the next guy*. Other exes couldn't before me, but with me could. And yes I'm long enough in the tooth to know the fakers**. So same boringly constant techniqie in the case of yours truly, same *ahem* anatomy too and yet very different orgasmic outcomes? What does that tell you?




* I'm close to some of my exes so we talk about this shíte

**Yes you are obvious, unless you're some 21 year old ex virgin.

I read mallei's post and nodded in agreement all the way through. The statistic which upsets you so much should probably more correctly read "by penetration alone". And yes some lesbians do use penetration to achieve the big O but IME rarely by itself. I'm a woman, I've been with women, I have several sisters and plenty of female friends and we can all agree that penetration without clitoral stimulation is rarely as effective. Unless you're doing it doggie style all the time.
And while I know this question was not directed at me specifically, what this tells me is that you are a man and the strength with which you feel the need to use your experience to validate your point says a lot more about you than you think.

Wibbs

for real wrote: »

And while I know this question was not directed at me specifically, what this tells me is that you are a man and the strength with which you feel the need to use your experience to validate your point says a lot more about you than you think.

Yea so I'm a man? This isn't a pissing contest. And I'm not just basing this on women I've been with. Women friends have also questioned this figure. So they're wrong then and can take it or leave it? It's hardly an ego thing either. Indeed as you can read I point out that women I was with who never did, could with men after me.

I simply said that I think the 80% figure usually trotted out of women "who never orgasm through penetration" is too high and is misleading. That Hite's research was just as culturally biased and cack handed as Kinsey and masters and johnson before her. That it depends on so many factors and that a fair number of straight women do indeed happily orgasm through thrusting vaginal sex. Not every time, but not never either.

I do agree with you on the "penetration alone" part, stimulation of the clit as well is obviously not off the menu. Either directly by one or other partner or by bodily contact. Though I would question about doggy style being most effective if you were aiming for an orgasm through straight vaginal sex, there's a lot less clit stimulation compared to missionary pubis to pubis contact. More g spot depending on angle though.

Wibbs

polly78 wrote: »

The female orgasm is no more complex than the males.

I'd disagree there. Well in the sense of the variation involved. Some women have an almost "male" sexual response. Wham bam thank you ma'am orgasm once and it's over. Others take much longer and then can have rolling orgasms one after the other. Some women ejaculate, most don't. Some women can cum through straight missionary sex, others no way. Some women have a very developed G Spot/vaginal sexual response, some don't. Some women like direct clitoral stimulation, some don't. And that little lot could occur in the same woman at different times depending on all sorts of factors. Men by comparison are simpler. Put it another way, when was the last time you saw an article in a blokes magazine "how to have an orgasm".

on the plus side it is so easy for a guy to know if a girl has just really had one, but a lot of guys haven't a clue.

Oh I agree, but some responsibility for that does come down to women not guiding them. Porn screws with their minds though and more deprogramming is needed than if porn never existed.

I think a girls orgasm is her own responsibility.

I agree but with her partners involvement, otherwise it feels a bit like two strangers in the bed?

Mallei

Sorry, Wibbs, but you're talking about this from a decidedly male perspective and it's colouring your judgement. I never said penetration was pointless, I merely said that - in the greater scheme of a sexual encounter - for many women it's not the best part.

That you seem desperate to claim that the 80% figure is "rubbish" and that, really, any woman can climax is insulting and degrading. As if all the women who can't climax from penetrative sex are somehow doing it "wrong". It says a lot about your male ego that you somehow put penetrative sex on this pedastal above all other forms of sexual contact. I wonder if that's because it's your favourite type, being a man?

Yes, a lot of women like myself will enjoy penetrative sex, but if you offered them the choice of never having oral again or never having penetrative sex again, deep down they're all going to want the oral because that actually gives them the climax that makes it worthwhile. And I genuinely believe that those women that put non-orgasmic penetrative sex above orgasmic oral sex in terms of their priorities are doing so purely because it's expected of them; or, should I say, because their men expect it of them. Let's see how many men would put a form of sex that their women enjoyed but they couldn't orgasm from above a type that they could orgasm from but their women enjoyed slightly less?

You give out to me for extrapolating from my own experiences, and then go and do the exact same thing, with some cursory "oh and some female mates of mine agree with me too" thrown in so no one could possibly doubt your integrity.

Ickle Magoo

Despite trying to make a gender war out of this discussion, I'm not sure what perspective making sweeping claims like "we can take it or leave it" or "deep down they're all going to want the oral" comes from but you certainly don't speak for all women - neither of those statements are even close to speaking for me.

In fact, I kind of agree with the point Wibbs is making. I've found orgasming at all with one partner a struggle and very easy to orgasm through penetration alone with another - meaning I've always had the ability or the potential to orgasm, it's finding the right partner/head space/position/whatever that's the "issue".

I can't say without resorting to anecdotal evidence (can anyone?) but those statistic don't tally with my experiences either.

Wibbs

Mallei wrote: »

That you seem desperate to claim that the 80% figure is "rubbish" and that, really, any woman can climax is insulting and degrading. As if all the women who can't climax from penetrative sex are somehow doing it "wrong". It says a lot about your male ego that you somehow put penetrative sex on this pedastal above all other forms of sexual contact. I wonder if that's because it's your favourite type, being a man?

OK lets examine this shall we? I'm not "desperate" to claim anything so can we avoid ascribing emotional conditions to others OK?

I also never said it was rubbish and no, putting it in parentheses doesn't make it any more true and is simply dishonest on your part. I did say I was "somewhat dubious" and "too high and is misleading". Maybe you spell "rubbish" differently?

At NO point did I come within sniffing distance of writing "women who can't climax from penetrative sex are somehow doing it "wrong"". Again with your blatantly dishonest use of parentheses to make out I did to further your subjective arguments.

IMHO if there's "ego" as you put it, or projection of subjective experience involved you've just proven with that post that it's less on my side of this.

Yes, a lot of women like myself will enjoy penetrative sex, but if you offered
You give out to me for extrapolating from my own experiences, and then go and do the exact same thing, with some cursory "oh and some female mates of mine agree with me too" thrown in so no one could possibly doubt your integrity.

No, again with your subjective reactions. I simply offered an alternative opinion. It's allowed you know and neither of us need to be going down the road of dishonestly putting words in others mouths.

Morgase

I think there's a lot of extrapolating from one's own experiences (borrowing Mallei's phrase) going on here leading to massive generalisations.

It really comes as no surprise that individual women like different things (hell, individual men like different things too!) so why is there such a rush to tell people that they're wrong for, say, wanting penetrative sex even though they'll get no orgasm from it.

If it came down to it, I'd choose penetrative sex over oral sex, but this does not mean that I'm choosing it out of some misguided belief that it's my Evil Boyfriend's expectation. It's just what I want. Other women may want something else entirely and that's their perogative.

Mallei

Well as a woman who freely admits to being able to climax from penetration, Ickle Magoo, the discussion doesn't really involve you. You're obviously one of the lucky few who can orgasm with no extra effort required on the part of your lover. No doubt you too will enjoy penetrative sex since you can climax from it with your partner.

Fact is, earlier on in this thread you freely admitted that if you couldn't climax you'd end frustrated - that having an orgasm was important to you in sex. You're lucky enough that you can get that orgasm from your partner's favourite part, too, but most of us have to put up with men that just want to get to the penetration and half-arse through everything else.

Tell me, why is penetration always the last act in a sexual encounter? It seems to me that society accepts that when a man gets off, it's over, whether his woman has or not. He pumps away until he's done and then, well, she should have just come quicker, shouldn't she?

Mallei

Morgase wrote: »

I think there's a lot of extrapolating from one's own experiences (borrowing Mallei's phrase) going on here leading to massive generalisations.

It really comes as no surprise that individual women like different things (hell, individual men like different things too!) so why is there such a rush to tell people that they're wrong for, say, wanting penetrative sex even though they'll get no orgasm from it.

If it came down to it, I'd choose penetrative sex over oral sex, but this does not mean that I'm choosing it out of some misguided belief that it's my Evil Boyfriend's expectation. It's just what I want. Other women may want something else entirely and that's their perogative.

So you don't enjoy orgasms then? Or at least you prefer a form of sex that doesn't give you orgasms to one that does? That seems very strange. Why deliberately choose a form of sex that doesn't feel as nice for you as another?

But we really all know the answer, because it's the same all over this country, probably all over the world. Because women are conditioned into believing that penetrative sex is the best bit, and they're conditioned into believing it because the men want them to, because for them it is the best bit.

Morgase, ask your boyfriend what his favourite part of sex is. I guarantee you he says that it's the penetrative part. Perhaps then you'll start to question if that's the real reason it's your favourite part, too.

Ickle Magoo

Mallei wrote: »

Well as a woman who freely admits to being able to climax from penetration, Ickle Magoo, the discussion doesn't really involve you. You're obviously one of the lucky few who can orgasm with no extra effort required on the part of your lover. No doubt you too will enjoy penetrative sex since you can climax from it with your partner.

Fact is, earlier on in this thread you freely admitted that if you couldn't climax you'd end frustrated - that having an orgasm was important to you in sex. You're lucky enough that you can get that orgasm from your partner's favourite part, too, but most of us have to put up with men that just want to get to the penetration and half-arse through everything else.

Tell me, why is penetration always the last act in a sexual encounter? It seems to me that society accepts that when a man gets off, it's over, whether his woman has or not. He pumps away until he's done and then, well, she have just come quicker, shouldn't she?

And yet I have had crap sex and selfish lovers and decided that a life time of crap sex and selfish loving would leave me frustrated and angry and not something I was prepared to live with.

I'm not sure why the guys are to blame for you willingly puting up with half-arsed and pretty lousy sex? You sound angry and your posts are tinged with bitterness - having a good sex life is our responsibility, if a guy is rubbish in bed or doesn't do it for you then you have two choices, teach him to get better or get another guy - at no stage are you forced into having anything less than satisfying sex life, or a particular time-table for sexual activities.

Morgase

That's my point, Mallei. You find my sexual habits strange, but my habits are no less valid than yours or any other woman's.

I assure you I've not been brainwashed by my boyfriend. I simply enjoy the closeness of my partner's body more than I enjoy orgasms. Part of this, I think, is that we're in a long-distance relationship. So, while I can have orgasms anytime, I value penetrative sex more as I get it less often.

To answer your other question, I know also that he prefers the penetrative sex more than any other form, but I don't see how that is supposed to influence my preference.

Mallei

Perhaps it's to do with my age, and more importantly the age of my male peers, but I can assure you that men in their early- to mid-twenties don't give a flying fcuk about giving their women climaxes when it boils down to a fundemental choice between their own orgasms or their partner's.

Ickle Magoo

Mallei wrote: »

Perhaps it's to do with my age, and more importantly the age of my male peers, but I can assure you that men in their early- to mid-twenties don't give a flying fcuk about giving their women climaxes when it boils down to a fundemental choice between their own orgasms or their partner's.

That is complete and utter tosh as well. This has everything to do with you and your personal experiences, it has nothing to do with "men" or "women" - please stop trying to bolster your personal opinion with crass generalisations.

Morgase

Mallei wrote: »

Perhaps it's to do with my age, and more importantly the age of my male peers, but I can assure you that men in their early- to mid-twenties don't give a flying fcuk about giving their women climaxes when it boils down to a fundemental choice between their own orgasms or their partner's.

Ah here, this is a ridiculous generalisation. Maybe you should amend that to say "men that I personally know of this age group etc etc".

Mallei

Morgase wrote: »

That's my point, Mallei. You find my sexual habits strange, but my habits are no less valid than yours or any other woman's.

I assure you I've not been brainwashed by my boyfriend. I simply enjoy the closeness of my partner's body more than I enjoy orgasms. Part of this, I think, is that we're in a long-distance relationship. So, while I can have orgasms anytime, I value penetrative sex more as I get it less often.

To answer your other question, I know also that he prefers the penetrative sex more than any other form, but I don't see how that is supposed to influence my preference.

It influences your preference because you're conditioned from a young age to want to please him sexually, so much so that you'll actually lie to yourself about the sex you prefer just so that it mirrors the sex he prefers. It's hardly an uncommon situation - just look at all the women out there deluding themselves into thinking they like anal sex, or giving oral sex, purely because their men demand it.

And about your second paragraph - yes, perhaps that explains it. I can understand that mentality; you take it when you can because you see him less often. But that's not the same thing. The very nature of the long-distance relationship makes your preferences different to how they would be were that major issue not present. I wonder, if and when the two of you become a short-distance relationship again, whether you'll still be perfectly happy to be with a man who doesn't provide you with orgasms?

I assume from your post that you can provide yourself with plenty when he's not around. When he's around all the time, you're going to get far less opportunity to give yourself orgasms because he's going to be wanting sex constantly - so if you're fundementally inorgasmic around him, it's going to be a problem further down the line. We'll see if you're so content with non-orgasmic sex then.

opinion guy

Mallei wrote: »

Perhaps it's to do with my age, and more importantly the age of my male peers, but I can assure you that men in their early- to mid-twenties don't give a flying fcuk about giving their women climaxes when it boils down to a fundemental choice between their own orgasms or their partner's.

I am no longer in that age bracket but I can tell you when I was I was more worried about getting the girl off and being good for her than I was about my own satisfaction (which sadly was often lacking - I faked it a few times....yes men can fake it too).