Digital Switchover - UTV Region (DigitalUK)

Nibs05

tvman2 wrote: »

Kilkeel along with all other local UK relay stations will provide Freeview Light - around 15 channels. Main transmitters provide the full Freeview service of around 40. You could try Divis after the switchover though and get the full service, especially if you are currently using a wideband UHF aerial and amplifier. Change the aerial to horizontal polarisation and see what you receive. If you get the full Freeview service you may have to get an additional UHF aerial for Saorview channels.

Currently using a wideband UHF aerial and amp, not the grid type that others are using in my area (laytown east Meath ), would I have to change the aerial direction to divis after dso or just wait and see what happens.

Thanks

Peter Rhea

Divis transmits horizontally polarised signals, Kilkeel is vertical. The direction to each would be pretty much the same from Laytown.

If you look back a few posts, there's a guy near Balbriggan who claims to be already getting fairly reliable reception from Divis, but that's probably with a high gain grouped aerial. I would think even after switchover, reception from Divis at that distance (particularly the extra channels not available from Kilkeel) will be prone to signal fading & interference from other transmitters.

Nibs05

Peter Rhea wrote: »

Divis transmits horizontally polarised signals, Kilkeel is vertical. The direction to each would be pretty much the same from Laytown.

If you look back a few posts, there's a guy near Balbriggan who claims to be already getting fairly reliable reception from Divis, but that's probably with a high gain grouped aerial. I would think even after switchover, reception from Divis at that distance (particularly the extra channels not available from Kilkeel) will be prone to signal fading & interference from other transmitters.

Cool thanks, I'll see what happens in October

tvman2

Nibs05 wrote: »

Currently using a wideband UHF aerial and amp, not the grid type that others are using in my area (laytown east Meath ), would I have to change the aerial direction to divis after dso or just wait and see what happens.

Thanks

Same advice applies the grid aerial is a more compact type and can perform better in some situations. In general the gain on wideband aerials is better at the higher UHF channels, so if you can receive the full Freeview service but it is a little 'weak' you could get a group A aerial and amp installed and use your current aerial for Saorview channels. Group A (or K) aerials are designed for higher gain where the UK channels are located. At your location I would suspect that your current aerial rotated to the horizontal will give good enough results providing the UK signals are as strong as expected. You really will not know until the switchover takes place and remember that the 1st stage of the UK switchover on the 10th Oct will be for the 'stronger' MUXs.

P.S. apologies for the crossover with Peter's replies also the bit I didn't include the aerial direction is as Peter stated is almost the same for both transmitters, I think it would be about 1/4 of a degree difference i.e. the aerial would have to rotate anticlockwise a very tiny amount - not worth talking about!

Nibs05

tvman2 wrote: »

Same advice applies the grid aerial is a more compact type and can perform better in some situations. In general the gain on wideband aerials is better at the higher UHF channels, so if you can receive the full Freeview service but it is a little 'weak' you could get a group A aerial and amp installed and use your current aerial for Saorview channels. Group A (or K) aerials are designed for higher gain where the UK channels are located. At your location I would suspect that your current aerial rotated to the horizontal will give good enough results providing the UK signals are as strong as expected. You really will not know until the switchover takes place and remember that the 1st stage of the UK switchover on the 10th Oct will be for the 'stronger' MUXs.

P.S. apologies for the crossover with Peter's replies also the bit I didn't include the aerial direction is as Peter stated is almost the same for both transmitters, I think it would be about 1/4 of a degree difference i.e. the aerial would have to rotate anticlockwise a very tiny amount - not worth talking about!

No problem guys, thanks for the advice, I'll wait and see so !

mrdtv2010

tvman2 wrote: »

Same advice applies the grid aerial is a more compact type and can perform better in some situations. In general the gain on wideband aerials is better at the higher UHF channels, so if you can receive the full Freeview service but it is a little 'weak' you could get a group A aerial and amp installed and use your current aerial for Saorview channels. Group A (or K) aerials are designed for higher gain where the UK channels are located. At your location I would suspect that your current aerial rotated to the horizontal will give good enough results providing the UK signals are as strong as expected. You really will not know until the switchover takes place and remember that the 1st stage of the UK switchover on the 10th Oct will be for the 'stronger' MUXs.

Divis DSO schedule:

Stage 1 DSO: BBC A 100kW, 10 October

Stage 2 DSO: D3+4, BBC B, both 100kw, COM muxes: 50 kW, all on 24th October.

Phase 1 DSO will give ROI viewers a very good indicator of how their reception will shape up for Phase 2 and whether they need to do anything with their aerials. In the case of the repeaters, such as Kilkeel, only BBCA, D3+4 and BBCB muxes are radiated from those masts. The teletext page 284 checker is a very good proxy test.

Nibs05

This is my current aerial, i can receive saorview with no issues on this aerial and also the uk terrestrial but with interference, ive done the teletext test and im not missing any squares which is a sign.

mrdtv2010

Nibs05 wrote: »

This is my current aerial, i can receive saorview with issues on this and also the uk terrestrial but with interference, ive done the teletext test and im not missing any squares which is a sign.

That is definitely a Kilkeel aerial as its vertically polarised, would indeed need to be reorientated to horizontal for maximising Divis signals (you would also get more potential Caldbeck interference.) The text checker shows post DSO PSB signals from Kilkeel will be fine.

Mr. Rabbit

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

That is definitely a Kilkeel aerial as its vertically polarised, would indeed need to be reorientated to horizontal for maximising Divis signals (you would also get more potential Caldbeck interference.) The text checker shows post DSO PSB signals from Kilkeel will be fine.

You would also need to change the aerial as Divis is group A and Kilkeel group B

Digital UK's postcode checker shows reception from Divis in Kilkeel is variable/poor post DSO. You may find some people are recieving Freeview from north Wales.

Failing that, I'd go for Freesat. It could end up cheaper in the long run rather than messing around with large and expensive terrestrial aerials which might never work properly in the long run.

Nibs05

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

You would also need to change the aerial as Divis is group A and Kilkeel group B

Digital UK's postcode checker shows reception from Divis in Kilkeel is variable/poor post DSO. You may find some people are recieving Freeview from north Wales.

Failing that, I'd go for Freesat. It could end up cheaper in the long run rather than messing around with large and expensive terrestrial aerials which might never work properly in the long run.

Thanks, to be honust im not to bothered about divis as you say it could be to much hassle, and already have a sky dish, I'll be happy enough with the 3 multiplexes from kilkeel as it stands.

mrdtv2010

The bottom line is that a full signal strength measure would be required; unlike analogue digital is perfect out to the edge of the service area and provided it stays above the C/N decode threshold digital is immune to sea path fading. That is why they are getting a pretty reliable service in the SE from LLanddona, Blaen-Plwyf and Preseli. October is going to be very interesting....

reboot

It may prove interesting if c/c interference proves to be bit of a problem in the kilkeel area.For almost a year now I have seen a total wipe out of Ch 50 from IOM (BBC HD),SD has been fine ,This is just along the coast at Analong.The Welsh Tx seem to be the problem,and although CH 50 will not figure in the Kilkeel Tx,so much power seems to be coming across the sea on HP lift,that its worth keeping an eye on?
It never seemed to be a problem on the Saorview system HD which seems to be a little more rubust,may I suggest?

Ronnie Raygun

Kilkeel analogue is already co-channel with Moel-Y-Parc (always has been, since all-analogue days), so any problems there will be longstanding.

reboot

Thanks for that,interesting times ahead?
Looks like the problem I encountered with 8K HD on C50 would have been cc with Llanddona,and as you point out M Parc is ASDN 42,same as Kilkeel?

FREETV

Peter Rhea wrote: »

Divis transmits horizontally polarised signals, Kilkeel is vertical. The direction to each would be pretty much the same from Laytown.

If you look back a few posts, there's a guy near Balbriggan who claims to be already getting fairly reliable reception from Divis, but that's probably with a high gain grouped aerial. I would think even after switchover, reception from Divis at that distance (particularly the extra channels not available from Kilkeel) will be prone to signal fading & interference from other transmitters.

Peter, for the interest of others, I am using a Triax Unix 100 Group A aerial with a Triax Group A 34db masthead amp and a slightly smaller wideband aerial with an FTE Maximal M1000 40db masthead amp to get the multiplexes outside of the Group A frequencies. Webro WF100 is the satellite cable which I use. I cannot envisage any reception problems wiith similar equipment in the Louth, Meath areas and parts of Dublin with a high mast other than interference from Caldbeck in high pressure weather a few times a year after ASO. The multiplex with BBC1 seems to be on the older mast? When I turned the Group A aerial a few degrees to the left I seemed to be able to receive that mux but it lowered the signal quality of the others and would fade out in bad weather.The Triax Unix 100 is discontinued unfortunately and out of stock everywhere.

Peter Rhea

FREETV wrote: »

The multiplex with BBC1 seems to be on the older mast? When I turned the Group A aerial a few degrees to the left I seemed to be able to receive that mux . . .

I would think the masts are too close together for an aerial to discriminate, even a Unix 100. You've no line of sight to Divis from there, so it's probably some kind of multipath effect.

FREETV

Peter Rhea wrote: »

I would think the masts are too close together for an aerial to discriminate, even a Unix 100. You've no line of sight to Divis from there, so it's probably some kind of multipath effect.

Ok, thanks Peter, it could be the signal bouncing off the water from the sea? How do you think the signal will perform in the likes of Trim and Navan on or after October 24? Do you reckon that it will be possible to receive all the Divis multiplexes then if one has a large high gain Group A aerial with a tall mast and masthead amp?

lawhec

FREETV wrote: »

The multiplex with BBC1 seems to be on the older mast? When I turned the Group A aerial a few degrees to the left I seemed to be able to receive that mux but it lowered the signal quality of the others and would fade out in bad weather.

If you don't have line of sight to the transmitter, different broadcasts on different frequencies, even fairly close ones, can appear to come from a slightly different direction than others and don't appear to be coming from the expected bearing. Differing scattering effects can contribute including reflections that are near the direct signal, tropospheric scatter, knife-edge refraction etc. I've often seen this with Truskmore TV setups locally where the VHF and UHF aerials point in slightly different directions to get the best signals for both bands, usually around 10 degrees.

Mr. Rabbit

Interestingly, some of the new BBC/ITV/Channel 4 autumn shedules straddle DSO in NI, so at least we'll be able to watch bits of series on Freeview HD, at long last. Could never figure out why NI was completely excluded from the Freeview HD roll out until now, and why Freeview ERP levels were so damned low compared to other parts of the UK. :mad::mad: Still, worth waiting for I suppose.

Didn't see anything of the Digital UK roadshow at the Abbey centre either, but on looking again it appears to have been at Abbey Retail Park (beside Harvey Norman/Halfords etc.) which seems a stupid place to have it as not that many people go there. Very inconspicuous.

Anyway, roll on October.

reboot

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

Interestingly, some of the new BBC/ITV/Channel 4 autumn shedules straddle DSO in NI, so at least we'll be able to watch bits of series on Freeview HD, at long last. Could never figure out why NI was completely excluded from the Freeview HD roll out until now, and why Freeview ERP levels were so damned low compared to other parts of the UK. :mad::mad: Still, worth waiting for I suppose.

Didn't see anything of the Digital UK roadshow at the Abbey centre either, but on looking again it appears to have been at Abbey Retail Park (beside Harvey Norman/Halfords etc.) which seems a stupid place to have it as not that many people go there. Very inconspicuous.

Anyway, roll on October.

Had an odd encounter with the Roadshow caravan myself in Newcastle recently.It was very out of the way down a side street,the nice man said they could not get permission to park in the main street,which on that day was fairly deserted.We,or rather I (he didn,t say much)went on to mention that people in the area might ask about RTE reception after DSO.He was very polite and didn,t say much either because he didn,t know or care much,his young associate had his head burried in the laptop the whole time.They had worked their way up the UK ,and had one useless brochure which he apologised for.At the point where I was about to give up,thanking him for listening to my rantings,a lady came in and asked "How do I get RTE?".

Mr. Rabbit

At the point where I was about to give up,thanking him for listening to my rantings,a lady came in and asked "How do I get RTE?".

Well, according to the Saorview spokesperson on OYB a few weeks ago, only by signing up for a subscription service on either Sky or Virgin (no mention at all of saorsat), though I would imagine the NI mux from Black Mountain should reach parts of the town (according to Digital UK's postcode checker)

Still, Abbey retail Park did seem a strange choice of venue, in my opinion. Surely they could have set something up in the Abbey Centre itself, or even in the carpark opposite the main entrance ? There are always portacabins parked there promoting various businesses etc.

I'd imagine aerial installers in the province are going to be extremely busy come October.

Mr. Rabbit

Actually, here's a thought.

I wonder if there will be situations were the NI Mux is receivable on a high gain aerial, but not Freeview post DSO due to signal overload ?

The Cush

The Cush wrote: »

Radio service - RTÉ Radio 1 or RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta?

The Cush wrote: »

Officially confirmed - Arqiva awarded multiplexing, distribution and transmission contract for the NI mini-mux.

Contract awarded 24th May. Only 1 bidder for the 2 lots.

There may be a future requirement to carry a radio channel but the plan to carry an extra TV channel on the mini-mux has been removed.

Confirmed Saturday (1st Sept) by Saorview's Brain Geraghty on Radio Ulster's "On Your Behalf" programme that the single radio channel to be carried on the NImux will be RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/oyb#playepisode1

Ronnie Raygun

FREETV wrote: »

... The multiplex with BBC1 seems to be on the older mast? When I turned the Group A aerial a few degrees to the left I seemed to be able to receive that mux but it lowered the signal quality of the others and would fade out in bad weather.

You're probably getting interference from Three Rock: turning the aerial could have nulled out the interfering analogue RTE1 on ch.29 or it could even be the Saorview signal on the adjacent ch.30. Probably varied the amount of RTE2 on ch.33 as well.

FREETV

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

You're probably getting interference from Three Rock: turning the aerial could have nulled out the interfering analogue RTE1 on ch.29 or it could even be the Saorview signal on the adjacent ch.30. Probably varied the amount of RTE2 on ch.33 as well.

That is quite possible Ronnie and hopefully it will not be a problem after Halloween. Worst case scenario for people in fringe areas of Dublin may be the need for a twin stack arrangement above roof level. I haven't got an expensive terrestrial meter, I only use a magnetic compass, a portable tv, Sagem Picnic Box signal meter and a Goodmans Freeview HD box meter made by Harvard while turning the aerials slowly and watching the signal readings after acquiring the Divis bearings. I also tilted the Group A aerial slightly to improve the reception. The analogue reception from Divis is good here apart from Channel 5 from Black Mountain, and I know that the signal from there is much lower in comparison to the rest of the analogue stations.

Peter Rhea

FREETV wrote: »

The Triax Unix 100 is discontinued unfortunately and out of stock everywhere.

It's still listed in the 2012 main catalogue on the Triax international site. Seemingly only semi-wideband (ch. 21-50, group K roughly) & wideband, though.

alchemist33

Hey folks,
I apologise for the lack of correct terminology in advance. I have a five year old freeview box from when I lived in Belfast. I've tried it from Letterkenny (where I am now) but it got nothing. I believe there'll be a new shiny signal from Strabane from Oct 24. Do you think I'll be able to pick up a signal then? I'm using a bog-standard aerial in my attic.

MarkK

alchemist33 wrote: »

Hey folks,
I apologise for the lack of correct terminology in advance. I have a five year old freeview box from when I lived in Belfast. I've tried it from Letterkenny (where I am now) but it got nothing. I believe there'll be a new shiny signal from Strabane from Oct 24. Do you think I'll be able to pick up a signal then? I'm using a bog-standard aerial in my attic.

If you are getting a good analogue signal for BBC/UTV/C4 at the moment, then you should pick up the BBC channels from 10 October and the other channels on 24 October.
It is a 'should' though, no guarantees and if you do have signal it may be unreliable. It's a bit of a wait and see.

alchemist33

Thanks Mark. Our analogue signal isn't great, and it's been getting worse -- Ceefax is illegible now -- but at least I'll have two weeks to see what's what. Or convince herself we just need Sky.

FREETV

Peter Rhea wrote: »

It's still listed in the 2012 main catalogue on the Triax international site. Seemingly only semi-wideband (ch. 21-50, group K roughly) & wideband, though.

Yes, Peter I meant the Group A type as in my previous posts, I have been looking around for the Group A Triax Unix 100 but they are no longer manufactured and out of stock. I have been looking at Triax sites for four years now