Digital Switchover - UTV Region (DigitalUK)

Peter Rhea

I think there are proposals to introduce 2 Europe-wide frequency groups, to tie in with the reduction in radio spectrum available for tv broadcasts. The lower of these would be fairly similar to the present UK/Ireland group A.

The Cush

Peter Rhea wrote: »

I think there are proposals to introduce 2 Europe-wide frequency groups, to tie in with the reduction in radio spectrum available for tv broadcasts. The lower of these would be fairly similar to the present UK/Ireland group A.

I posted this previously - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79088372&postcount=33

reslfj

The Cush wrote: »

I posted this previously - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79088372&postcount=33

Ofcom in the UK expect all new aerials to be W60 (or T) as all DTT may change to SFN operation around 2020 - and surely will change to SFN, if the 700MHz frequency band is relocated to 4G/LTE700 broadband use.

Now trying to get DIVIS channels from 100+ km away may be one of the few cases where the largest group A aerial is needed, but otherwise buy a 'one size larger' wideband.

Lars

castle2012

reslfj wrote: »

Ofcom in the UK expect all new aerials to be W60 (or T) as all DTT may change to SFN operation around 2020 - and surely will change to SFN, if the 700MHz frequency band is relocated to 4G/LTE700 broadband use.

Now trying to get DIVIS channels from 100+ km away may be one of the few cases where the largest group A aerial is needed, but otherwise buy a 'one size larger' wideband.

Lars

Hi I need some advise, Living in east meath had a good Bbc1,2 Utv Channel 4 , No Channel 5 , Think my signal coming off a relay transmitter in the north, No Digital signal at the moment, Will a signal start mid October or should i purchase a dish, What stations will i be able to get if the digital signal is switched on mid October?

The Cush

castle2012 wrote: »

Will a signal start mid October or should i purchase a dish, What stations will i be able to get if the digital signal is switched on mid October?

The first digital mux from the relays in NI will be switched-on Oct 10th with the rest going live on Oct 24th - http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/when_do_i_switch/northernireland. Best to wait until then before going the satellite dish route.

If you're receiving the analogue channels from a relay you'll get the digital channels listed for this relay for example.

tvmanwalterh

:)

castle2012 wrote: »

Hi I need some advise, Living in east meath had a good Bbc1,2 Utv Channel 4 , No Channel 5 , Think my signal coming off a relay transmitter in the north, No Digital signal at the moment, Will a signal start mid October or should i purchase a dish, What stations will i be able to get if the digital signal is switched on mid October?

As The Cush said, you should receive the first BBC mux on the 10th October and on the 24th, you should receive the commercial mux and the BBC HD mux.

reslfj

tvmanwalterh wrote: »

:)

As The Cush said, you should receive the first BBC mux on the 10th October and on the 24th, you should receive the commercial mux and the BBC HD mux.

Note the PSB muxes from DIVIS uses the same UHF channels (ch27, 21+, 24) at 100kW as the COM muxes from Brougher Mountain at 2kW - 50 times less power.

If you receive from both TX sites, the Brougher Mountain will look like noise and such noise must be like 200 times below the wanted signal.
This may not be easy, if you are far to the south of both TX sites.

Lars

The Cush

Article on the NI DSO and how it will affect some analogue TV viewers on the Isle of Man

THE Isle of Man was among the first places in Britain to switch over to digital TV in 2009.

But many homes in the west of the island still get the best signal from the analogue transmitters in Northern Ireland.

Many households in Kirk Michael, for example, will use the Divis transmitter outside Belfast.

Now these viewers, too, are set to lose their analogue reception when the Ulster TV region becomes the last part of Britain to go digital next month.

The move affects the Brougher Mountain, Divis and Limavady transmitters. BBC2 will be the first channel to do go digital on October 10 followed by BBC1, UTV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 on October 24.

Northern Ireland will complete the digital switch-over on the same day as the Republic of Ireland.

There has been no advertising of how the changes may affect the Isle of Man.

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/isle-of-man-news/last-tvs-in-the-isle-of-man-go-digital-1-4913221

The Cush

Shortage of FreeviewHD receivers for viewers availing of the Switchover Help Scheme, some may have to wait until Nov according to an article in the Newry Times.

SDLP Culture spokesperson Karen McKevitt MLA has said she is concerned that many people across the north could be left without proper access to RTE services after the digital switchover in October.

Speaking after a meeting of the Culture, Arts and Leisure Committee in Stormont, she said: “We heard that 6% of people may not get the three RTE stations. OFCOM and Digital UK representatives are scheduled to to attend a committee meeting on 2 October and I have asked for access to RTE to be put on the agenda as a matter of urgency.

...

"Separately, we are getting reports through constituency offices that the Switchover Help Scheme has under-estimated demand for Freeview HD boxes needed to access RTE. Applicants are being told they will have to wait until November for supplies."

http://newrytimes.com/2012/09/09/digital-switchover-raises-north-south-issues-mckevitt/

reslfj

The Cush wrote: »

Shortage of FreeviewHD receivers for viewers availing of the Switchover Help Scheme, some may have to wait until Nov according to an article in the Newry Times.

"Separately, we are getting reports through constituency offices that the Switchover Help Scheme has under-estimated demand for Freeview HD boxes needed to access RTE"

How can you under-estimate the the demand for FreeviewHD in NI ?
There should be no demand for anything DTT in NI - but FreeviewHD /DVB-T2.



Lars

FREETV

reslfj wrote: »

How can you under-estimate the the demand for FreeviewHD in NI ?
There should be no demand for anything DTT in NI - but FreeviewHD /DVB-T2.



Lars

My God, what a farce, you are both correct The Cush and Lars, only in Ireland would such a major mistake happen. It beggars belief. Since when did the Civil Service ever get things correct on either sides of the border?

Digifriendly

I think this message of Freeview HD and ROI stations availability in NI post DSO hasn't got through yet to many viewers. Methinks Tesco shelves will be emptied of Freeview HD boxes once message has begun to get through.

lawhec

Well, very shortly it'll be the case that BBC Two analogue in Britain will have gone forever. Only N. Ireland then left for another four weeks. The DSO process, having talked about it here for months and years, is now starting to sink in that bit more with the time coming.

mrdtv2010

lawhec wrote: »

Well, very shortly it'll be the case that BBC Two analogue in Britain will have gone forever. Only N. Ireland then left for another four weeks. The DSO process, having talked about it here for months and years, is now starting to sink in that bit more with the time coming.

BBC2 analogue went this morning in NE England. Last GB region to switch over. The 10th October BBCA power up will provide an important system test for ROI viewers enabling them to assess reception before considering any upgrade or repair works.

formerly scottish paddy

Digifriendly wrote: »

I think this message of Freeview HD and ROI stations availability in NI post DSO hasn't got through yet to many viewers. Methinks Tesco shelves will be emptied of Freeview HD boxes once message has begun to get through.

It seems difficult for people to get their heads around. I had to phone the UK Digital help scheme to get a Freeview HD box for my elderly mother and it took me ages to explain the situation to them, you would think that the people who run the system would understand whats happening! I know it is based in England but they should be aware of the situation in Northern Ireland, so I am not suprised that there is confusion. How many people in NI are going to end up buying a "box for RTE" when they have Freeview HD tv's?

SRB

formerly scottish paddy wrote: »

How many people in NI are going to end up buying a "box for RTE" when they have Freeview HD tv's?

I'd imagine it'll be the other way around - it'll be the people who have Freeview TV's who think they'll be fine, will be phoning to complain about losing RTE and not being able to receive HD services.
Likewise, there will be people out there with MPEG4 TV's who find they can receive RTE HD, but not BBC/ITV/CH4 HD.

As for the issue of supplying non DVBT-2 boxes, Digital UK's thinking is that there are some communities in NI who would rather NOT get the RTE Channels and may be offended by finding them on their new box. (Yes, I know, but that is their thinking.)

I was trying to purchase a Freeview HD TV for the inlaws last weekend and the lack of knowledge out there in the retailers is frightening.
Ended up buying it online.

reslfj

SRB wrote: »

....
As for the issue of supplying non DVBT-2 boxes, Digital UK's thinking is that there are some communities in NI who would rather NOT get the RTE Channels and may be offended by finding them on their new box. (Yes, I know, but that is their thinking.)

So some people will rather NOT have BBC1-HD, BB2-HD, ?TV1-HD, C4-HD + new-HD - in order to avoid having RTE and TG4 entries in the 800 range. :eek:

Even a MPEG-2 Freeview box - in a Saorview overspill area - may also have the 800 ROI entries, but of course you cannot watch these MPEG-4 channels on old style Freeview boxes.

Lars

SRB

reslfj wrote: »

So some people will rather NOT have BBC1-HD, BB2-HD, ?TV1-HD, C4-HD + new-HD - in order to avoid having RTE and TG4 entries in the 800 range. :eek:

Lars

They won't be in the 800's on the boxes supplied by Digital UK, or any others receiving the NI Minimux. The channels will be part of the freeview lineup in NI areas served by it. Though, yes, you are of course correct, any overspill will see them added anyway, unless the s/w filters them out on tuning. Some HD boxes I've seen won't store the ROI channels if you input a NI postcode at set up.

Mr. Rabbit

I was trying to purchase a Freeview HD TV for the inlaws last weekend and the lack of knowledge out there in the retailers is frightening.
Ended up buying it online.

Well, there were plenty for sale in P.C. World (when I looked today) and Currys and Argos (last week) so there's absolutely no problem buying a Freeview HD TV (or STB/PVR) in the greater Belfast area (were all did you look ?).

Were the confusion will arise is the number of sets being sold that are still only "HD ready" as opposed to full HD (i.e. Freeview HD). P.C. World, Currys and Argos all have their products well labelled to demonstrate this fact, so there shoudn't be a problem. Currys at the Abbey Centre even have TVs marked "Saorview compatible" !

The problem lies with the public, and ill informed sales advisors, though BBC Radio Ulster's OYB has been highlighting this point for months now.

A far greater problem is going to be signal overload due to aerial systems with masthead and distribution amplifiers, in my opinion. October 24th could be a nightmare

Mr. Rabbit

SRB wrote: »

They won't be in the 800's on the boxes supplied by Digital UK, or any others receiving the NI Minimux. The channels will be part of the freeview lineup in NI areas served by it. Though, yes, you are of course correct, any overspill will see them added anyway, unless the s/w filters them out on tuning. Some HD boxes I've seen won't store the ROI channels if you input a NI postcode at set up.

Have the EPG numbers been announced for the NI mux yet, or will we have to wait until 24th October to find out, assuming that is, it actually launches on that date ?

Oh, and by the way, I've never had to input a postcode prior to tuning (or set up) in any Freeview box or TV I've owned, ever (and I've quite a few lying around the house). Even SD definition boxes store the ROI stations in the 800s (sound only). The only box that I have that hasn't worked is one that wasn't compatible with 8k mode (an old Pace STB), and this was with Cambret Hill. I asume the ROI stations wont be stored in any 2K only box, even if it is MPEG4 compatible ?

Which boxes are you talking about ?

SRB

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

Which boxes are you talking about ?

One box was from Tesco, can't remember where the other one came from, both asked for a uk postcode when first installed.

SRB

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

SRB wrote: »

Have the EPG numbers been announced for the NI mux yet, or will we have to wait until 24th October to find out, assuming that is, it actually launches on that date ?

Even SD definition boxes store the ROI stations in the 800s (sound only).

No idea where they are going to be listed, on the NI EPG. My own tv and boxes will often put RTÉ NL's channels in the 1-5 slots and Divis down in the 800's. Actually turned the auto update off on everything as it was driving the Mrs mad. Agree the mastheads will be a big issue in NI, especially given the weak DTT signals we've had, plus a lot of mastheads dating from the 80's still exist for CC RTÉ reception.

The Cush

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

Have the EPG numbers been announced for the NI mux yet, or will we have to wait until 24th October to find out, assuming that is, it actually launches on that date ?

No official announcement yet regarding LCNs for the NImux. Also haven't seen anything on the Ofcom website regarding the NImux licence or the broadcasting licences for the channels to be carried on the NImux.

I speculated at the end of July when the DMOL LCN Statement was published that the channels might be allocated the next available LCNs 50-52 following the epg reshuffle next Wed when the Freeview HD channels move to their new LCNs 101-120, the new HD section of the Freeview epg - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80010437

Souriau

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

Have the EPG numbers been announced for the NI mux yet, or will we have to wait until 24th October to find out, assuming that is, it actually launches on that date ?

Yes, it's been announced, see attach file

Rick_

RTÉ TWO won't be the HD version and TG 4 comes before RTÉ ONE and TWO? How stupid.

The Cush

Souriau wrote: »

Yes, it's been announced, see attach file

Do you have a link to source?

Souriau

The Cush wrote: »

Do you have a link to source?

www.dmol.co.uk

lawhec

The Cush wrote: »

No official announcement yet regarding LCNs for the NImux. Also haven't seen anything on the Ofcom website regarding the NImux licence or the broadcasting licences for the channels to be carried on the NImux.

I speculated at the end of July when the DMOL LCN Statement was published that the channels might be allocated the next available LCNs 50-52 following the epg reshuffle next Wed when the Freeview HD channels move to their new LCNs 101-120, the new HD section of the Freeview epg - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80010437

Since the channels in question are already licenced in another EU country, the bit in bold shouldn't be necessary.

lawhec

Paddy C wrote: »

RTÉ TWO won't be the HD version and TG 4 comes before RTÉ ONE and TWO? How stupid.

We've known now for some time that RTÉ Two on the NIMM won't be in HD. Simply not enough capacity without trading off coverage.

TG4 before the two RTÉ channels might look strange, but considering the Good Friday Agreement only specified TnaG as it was then, it's possible that it has been given preference. No big deal really.

Sam Russell

Souriau wrote: »

Yes, it's been announced, see attach file

So 51 and 52 are allocated twice?