Digital Switchover - UTV Region (DigitalUK)

davehey79

we have in the past received the Uk channels with an outside aerial a good many years ago as we have cable now but am thinking of ditching the cable and going freeview / saorview. i must call to my aunts house only a couple of miles away see does she still receive through her outdoor aerial and go from there.

mrdtv2010

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

Why do you keep going on about beam tilting? Doesn't every transmission site (the high power ones anyway) implement it to some extent, for reasons of efficiency if nothing else?

No, its expensive and requires a complex HRP pattern. Usually done when you want to restrict coverage below radio horizon.

Mr. Rabbit

davehey79 wrote: »

we have in the past received the Uk channels with an outside aerial a good many years ago as we have cable now but am thinking of ditching the cable and going freeview / saorview. i must call to my aunts house only a couple of miles away see does she still receive through her outdoor aerial and go from there.

If you want to receive the U.K. Channels then Freesat is the way to go.

Completely free apart from the initial outlay.

You're probably a bit too far south/west to receive either Freeview or the UK channels.

Peter Rhea

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

No, its expensive and requires a complex HRP pattern.

Shouldn't that be VRP? I thought all multi-tiered aerials allowed control over this, by default, even just for gap filling near the tx site?

mrdtv2010

Peter Rhea wrote: »

Shouldn't that be VRP? I thought all multi-tiered aerials allowed control over this, by default, even just for gap filling near the tx site?

The below provides a good tour of the issues about HRP and VRP, albeit a bit out of date. The point I was making about Caldbeck and Divis COM interactions is that it appears they are indeed beam tilted: this shows up if you stick in postcodes in Co Down or Dumfries & Galloway in the DUK postcode checker.

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/whp/whp-pdf-files/WHP002.pdf

CRM Ireland

After seeing the maps posted earlier, I decided to turn my antenna horizontal and point it slightly more westerly to lineup with where Divis is.

I then retuned my TV and the auto tuning found the exact same number of channels. It stored all the Saorview and the BBCA lot. However the signal strength on, for example, BBC1 is only 34% with 100% quality. The picture is perfect and the EPG works perfectly. However when I go to any of the Saorview channels, it says there is no signal. Even though it mustve found something, because it stored them, and the EPG picks up about 50% of the program schedule.

Any suggestions?

Peter Rhea

Is BBC A still carried on UHF ch. 45? Likely all you've done is lower the amount of Kilkeel signal being received.

CRM Ireland

I mved the antenna a bit, to try and line it up better, and I can now pick up the Saorview channels. Here is a report of the signal strength on both channels. The reported signal strength is poor, but it looks perfect. When I was watching RTE2 HD it looks pin sharp.




Is there anyway to tell from that, what mast Im connected to?

Peter Rhea

That's still Kilkeel & Clermont Carn. All you've done is lose most of your signal by wrongly polarising your aerial.

CRM Ireland

So what channels should I be receiving the BBCA on if I was picking up the Divis mast?

Should it be channel 27? I Googled and found that.

Is there anyway to choose which mast your tv would tune to? If the Kilkeel is stronger, is that going to always make my TV tune to it?

Peter Rhea

BBC A from Divis is on UHF channel 27 (522 mHz). Your tv should have a manual scan facility, where you can enter the channel no. or frequency to be scanned.

Peter Rhea

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

The point I was making about Caldbeck and Divis COM interactions is that it appears they are indeed beam tilted: this shows up if you stick in postcodes in Co Down or Dumfries & Galloway in the DUK postcode checker.

How can you tell from the postcode checker?

CRM Ireland

Peter Rhea wrote: »

BBC A from Divis is on UHF channel 27 (522 mHz). Your tv should have a manual scan facility, where you can enter the channel no. or frequency to be scanned.

Thanks. I did the manual tune, when I selected CH27, the signal was showing as bad. I was moving the antenna all around and the signal barely moved up the meter. It was about 5% strength. When I pressed "tune" on it, it kept losing the signal altogether.

I guess Im not going to get the full Freeview then! Gutted.

mrdtv2010

Peter Rhea wrote: »

How can you tell from the postcode checker?

You just have to look at points on a map in SW Scotland, use Google maps to input their postcodes to the DUK checker (trade view) and it tells you what services, RF frequencies are available and channel conditions. It then becomes clear that Caldbeck and Divis are indeed tilted.

More interestingly the postcode checker also gives the results for NIMM coverage from Black Mountain : extends as far up as Girvan, and across to Campbelltown. The results for Isle of Man don't seem to be accurate as DUK postcode checker appears to have problems with IOM postcodes, they are not as granular as in rest of UK.

Here's a sample from Girvan in Ayrshire:

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/postcodechecker/main/trade/KA+26+9DS/4/0/NA

Peter Rhea

CRM Ireland wrote: »

Thanks. I did the manual tune, when I selected CH27, the signal was showing as bad. I was moving the antenna all around and the signal barely moved up the meter. It was about 5% strength. When I pressed "tune" on it, it kept losing the signal altogether.

I guess Im not going to get the full Freeview then! Gutted.

Are you using the grid aerial pictured in previous posts? You might need something a bit heftier & frequency grouped rather than wideband.

CRM Ireland

Peter Rhea wrote: »

Are you using the grid aerial pictured in previous posts? You might need something a bit heftier & frequency grouped rather than wideband.

Yeah, Im using that. I probably wont bother, I dont really want to spend any money.

I have a freesat box and a Sky+ HD box and a Sky+ box already. I was just hoping to take advantage of the TVs tuner and then everything is listed in perfect order. My SD Sky+ box has the viewing card out, so I get the UK channels in order from 101. You cant do that with the newer HD boxes though, and as I want to have the HD channels, I have to suffer the annoyance of messing about going through the menus, going to other channels and all that. I get all thats available, but its not a great experience having to mess about with menus etc.

I will no doubt give up and subscribe to Sky once they start doing half-price offers again.

mrdtv2010

CRM Ireland wrote: »

Yeah, Im using that. I probably wont bother, I dont really want to spend any money.

I have a freesat box and a Sky+ HD box and a Sky+ box already. I was just hoping to take advantage of the TVs tuner and then everything is listed in perfect order. My SD Sky+ box has the viewing card out, so I get the UK channels in order from 101. You cant do that with the newer HD boxes though, and as I want to have the HD channels, I have to suffer the annoyance of messing about going through the menus, going to other channels and all that. I get all thats available, but its not a great experience having to mess about with menus etc.

I will no doubt give up and subscribe to Sky once they start doing half-price offers again.

It depends on where you are? Are nearby aerials on Divis? The Freeview lite service from Kilkeel has the HDTV channels from Wednesday coming (there seems to be some confusion on this board about Freeview-lite). You need to make the calculation: can Divis work, how much will it cost versus a years subscription to Sky, and won't CC/Kilkeel populate the EPG completely especially if you have a T2 TV or T box. That's the tradeoff to make. As another poster said you need a proper Group A for Divis.

Peter Rhea

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

You just have to look at points on a map in SW Scotland, use Google maps to input their postcodes to the DUK checker (trade view) and it tells you what services, RF frequencies are available and channel conditions. It then becomes clear that Caldbeck and Divis are indeed tilted.

As in this example from a previous post?

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/postcodechecker/main/trade/DG+8+8PY/33/0/NA

this shows that beam tilting appears to be implemented by Caldbeck and Divis in both directions: makes sense.

It shows coverage impairments on muxes that are co-channel with Divis. Don't see how you could infer anything about the radiation pattern of Caldbeck.

Ronnie Raygun

From the coverage checker, I don't know how you could tell what is due to restrictions of the "wanted" transmitter's radiation pattern & what is due to interference from another site, unless you had access to the information used to programme the checker software.

mrdtv2010

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

From the coverage checker, I don't know how you could tell what is due to restrictions of the "wanted" transmitter's radiation pattern & what is due to interference from another site, unless you had access to the information used to programme the checker software.

Whithorn Priory Dumfries & Galloway:

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/postcodechecker/main/trade/DG8+8PY/4/0/399fjmrgef8p6k3kvneu0siki6

The Quays Bar, Portavogie, Co Down:

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/postcodechecker/main/trade/BT22+1EB/81/0/NA

You can see the changes in these cochannel COM allocations. Poor Divis COMs in Portavogie and mixed results for Caldbeck in D & G.

Ronnie Raygun

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

You can see the changes in these cochannel COM allocations. Poor Divis COMs in Portavogie and mixed results for Caldbeck in D & G.

Once again, how can you deduce that this has anything to do with the radiation pattern of the "wanted" transmitter & isn't due solely to co-channel interference from elsewhere.

Give a reason this time & not just more examples, or I might start to think you don't know what you're talking about.

mrdtv2010

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

Once again, how can you deduce that this has anything to do with the radiation pattern of the "wanted" transmitter & isn't due solely to co-channel interference from elsewhere.

Give a reason this time & not just more examples, or I might start to think you don't know what you're talking about.[/QUOTE

Divis and Caldbeck COMS are cochannel. They are the only ones sharing this spectrum in that part of the Irish sea. Also Caldbeck is powering up its COM muxes on 24th October from 12.5kW to 50kW to counter the effect from Divis. Get it, got it, good?

Ronnie Raygun

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

Divis and Caldbeck COMS are cochannel. They are the only ones sharing this spectrum in that part of the Irish sea. Also Caldbeck is powering up its COM muxes on 24th October from 12.5kW to 50kW to counter the effect from Divis.

That's common knowledge. So, I think I'd be right in assuming that you mentioned beam-tilting purely for the sake of throwing engineering terms about to make yourself look clever.

This is just like the Welsh switchover, bringing out all the bullShitters.

mrdtv2010

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

That's common knowledge. So, I think I'd be right in assuming that you mentioned beam-tilting purely for the sake of throwing engineering terms about to make yourself look clever.

This is just like the Welsh switchover, bringing out all the bullShitters.

Losing it now?



http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/transmitternetwork/tools__and__resources/almanac/pdfs/DSOTxDetails_Border_050111_v7.0.pdf
Page 3.0

Ronnie Raygun

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

Losing it now?

You or me?

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

In fact:

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/postcodechecker/main/trade/DG+8+8PY/33/0/NA

this shows that beam tilting appears to be implemented by Caldbeck and Divis in both directions: makes sense.

All "this shows" is that the 2 transmission sites will cause mutual interference when their com muxes go to full power. End of story.

mrdtv2010

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

You or me?




All "this shows" is that the 2 transmission sites will cause mutual interference when their com muxes go to full power. End of story.

Beam tilting for the new antenna system at Divis discussed in this very parish some time back:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=68800253

Ronnie Raygun

That description would seem to suggest that the tilt is to give better coverage to low-lying areas relatively close to the tx mast.

mrdtv2010

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showpost.php?p=61761300&postcount=13

SRB

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showpost.php?p=61761300&postcount=13

Been there since last weeks shuffle, EPG info has just gone live though.

mrdtv2010

SRB wrote: »

Been there since last weeks shuffle, EPG info has just gone live though.

Yes, that means events are going to move rapidly. I notice also BBC1 Scotland say they will be in HDTV shortly across all platforms.