Digital Switchover - UTV Region (DigitalUK)

thetwangman

watty wrote: »

Get a better designed aerial. Front to Back ratio and side lobes is more important than absolute gain.

Use double screened satellite cable.

Use minimum gain of mast amp for loss of cable.

Thanks for the advice Watty. Do you mean I need a better aerial for Divis or Clermont Carn or both. Is it more likely that my southeast facing saorview aerial is wiping out C23 from Divis because its getting something from Mt Leinster?

watty

Probably on sidelobes. Fit a channel filter on it too.

Note that "better" isn't just gain. Gain is only one of many aspects of an aerial. Forget cheap no-name brands and chain stores.

Millsy47

Just joined the forum today to thank everyone for their input, it has made interesting reading over the last few weeks.
I'm in Carrickfergus and get great saorview reception with a loft aerial.
By the way my Bush freeview hd box can't pick up the NImux either, it to is a Vestel clone.
I have a Humax hd fox t2 in the living room, great STB.
Thankyou.

p.oconnor

Millsy47 wrote: »

Just joined the forum today to thank everyone for their input, it has made interesting reading over the last few weeks.
I'm in Carrickfergus and get great saorview reception with a loft aerial.
By the way my Bush freeview hd box can't pick up the NImux either, it to is a Vestel clone.
I have a Humax hd fox t2 in the living room, great STB.
Thankyou.

Thats great to hear, Carrickfergus must be one of the furthest points from the border in terms of getting Saorview, its great to see almost all the north now have access to all Saorview channels without any blackouts.

FREETV

Millsy47 wrote: »

Just joined the forum today to thank everyone for their input, it has made interesting reading over the last few weeks.
I'm in Carrickfergus and get great saorview reception with a loft aerial.
By the way my Bush freeview hd box can't pick up the NImux either, it to is a Vestel clone.
I have a Humax hd fox t2 in the living room, great STB.
Thankyou.

Well you are another person so who should get on to Argos and Vestel too for a software update and if you do please upload it immediately for other users here on Boards. Harvard used to make Bush but sold the brand name to Argos. Vestel make Bush products now. Oh and welcome to Boards.

Mr. Rabbit

p.oconnor wrote: »

Thats great to hear, Carrickfergus must be one of the furthest points from the border in terms of getting Saorview, its great to see almost all the north now have access to all Saorview channels without any blackouts.

Yep, the Humax hd fox t2 is a great wee box and has no problems with Saorview whatsoever, other than putting the channels in the 800's.

Unlike my Sony 1TB PVR. It can't display programme information and the time is also wrong (1hr behind). I'd choose Humax everytime now.

Notice they're blocking home and away on the NI mux today. I thought this was a thing of the past but clearly not.

As time goes on we may find less and less programmes blocked, hopefully.

munchkin_utd

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

Notice they're blocking home and away on the NI mux today. I thought this was a thing of the past but clearly not.

I presume the champions league is blocked too?

formerly scottish paddy

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

Notice they're blocking home and away on the NI mux today. I thought this was a thing of the past but clearly not.

As time goes on we may find less and less programmes blocked, hopefully.

Channel 5 are the problem I believe, they have UK rights.

mrdtv2010

Peter Rhea wrote: »

I would have thought a vertically polarised grid would compare favourably? Black Mountain is pretty much in line with Kilkeel for most people in ROI receiving from there anyway, so directionality wouldn't make any difference.

The main protection is the C/I ratio which between cross polar transmissions is 20dB for DVB systems. There will be angular separation between the sites which helps using a Yagi, but it is possible that reflected signals from NIMM could be vertical. The other problem as far as CCI is concerned that NIMM, although 2kW, behaves like a 50kW DVB-T1 transmitter because of its lower C/N decode threshold.

You are right about MyP (I am not using my usual computers etc) and this may mean that Arqiva may need to make further changes at Black Mountain in November.

MACHEAD

At some point in time wouldn't it make sense for all concerned to get together and agree 'all island' rights for Ireland. After all the whole population is just a tad over 5 million, the population of London alone is greater!

But then again sometimes 'sense' just doesn't seem to be in the vocabulary of the 'powers that be'.

formerly scottish paddy

MACHEAD wrote: »

At some point in time wouldn't it make sense for all concerned to get together and agree 'all island' rights for Ireland. After all the whole population is just a tad over 5 million, the population of London alone is greater!

But then again sometimes 'sense' just doesn't seem to be in the vocabulary of the 'powers that be'.

It's not a question of "sense" it is a question of money. If someone pays for something (rights) then they expect to benefit from it (advertising). If a UK television company buys the UK rights to a programme then that includes N.I.
RTE usually only buy the rights for RoI which is obviously a lot cheaper, as it's based on population size.

FREETV

People should avoid all Vestel made products as they have two software glitches, one is no information for the Saorview EPG and the second is that it won't recognise the new N.I. Minimux or tune them in, disgraceful for such an expensive Metronic Zapbox Freeview HD box when it was bought. Other people have the same problem with the Vestel manufactured Bush Freeview HD boxes also. Edit I just sent an email to Metronic about the two problems and requested a software update to fix the bugs. Here is a link to contact them for other Metronic T2 HD zapbox owners/users. http://www.metronic.com/index2.php?p=contact&lang=UK Click on you are a customer to send them an email. Let's put them under pressure to fix these major glitches. It is up to them to get Vestel to sort out any problems.

Mr. Rabbit

formerly scottish paddy wrote: »

Channel 5 are the problem I believe, they have UK rights.

Strangely, neighbours was in the clear !

reslfj

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

The main protection is the C/I ratio which between cross polar transmissions is 20dB for DVB systems.

Maybe 20dB or 100 times less for an aerial turned exactly 90 deg. Even just 5 or 10 deg over or under 90 deg will, however, allow much more unwanted signal to be received. Try play with a pair of polarized sunglasses.

... but it is possible that reflected signals from NIMM could be vertical.

Indeed - or just turned some fraction of 90 degrees.

The other problem as far as CCI is concerned that NIMM, although 2kW, behaves like a 50kW DVB-T1 transmitter because of its lower C/N decode threshold.

If you want to receive the NIMux - yes it is as robust as maybe a UK 50kW DVB-T signal.

But as noise it is physical a 2kW UHF signal like any other 2kW signal.

If we assume 'free space' between the TX sites and some point between Dublin and the border - the distance to Kilkeel (~50-60km) and BM (~100-120km) or around 1 to 2. The signals will be reduced by a factor of 1*1=1 to 2*2=4. 500W/1 vs 2kW/4 = 500W i.e the signals will be of about equal power.


Now it is not in free space - it's on a round earth with hills and mountains - but also with a long strech of water and we need the Kilkeel signal to be 20+ dB better for the PSB-3 DVB-T2 HD mux to be received.


Lars

giveherlong

Here’s my predicament:
I want to get Saorview for the midweek Soccer on TV3 and RTE 2 HD etc
I live in Whiteabbey towards the top of the Glenville Rd just past the train bridge

I got a Freeview HD box and I’m picking up the RTE/TG4 NImux from Carmoney Hill fine as well as all the BBC HD etc but as you know the Champions League etc is blanked out on RTE

I tried the auto tune and Manual Tune on Channel 52 on the HD Freeview box from Clermont Carn but nothing is registering at all
Before the switchover I got a great RTE1 & 2, TV3 and TG4 analogue picture on an old Grundig UHF/VHF television and a fairly snowy picture on another newer analogue TV

There are 2 aerials on my roof and- one pointing at Carmoney Hill and the other in the Belfast direction (the next door neighbour has 2 on his as well, about 1/3 of the houses in the area have 2 roof aerials)
As it is a rented house I don’t want to be shelling out a load of cash on aerial installers etc

Since I was getting very clear RTE/TV3 on the Grundig UHF/VHF TV I thought my aerial set-up would be ok (someone did mention that there may be some sort of signal booster built into the Grundig TV)
Someone I spoke with locally said that the very edge of Cave Hill might be blocking signal coming towards the top of the Glenville Rd from Clermont Carn but they weren’t sure

Any thoughts/advice are much appreciated

Ronnie Raygun

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

The main protection is the C/I ratio which between cross polar transmissions is 20dB for DVB systems. There will be angular separation between the sites which helps using a Yagi

Why a Yagi? Certainly, I've been led to believe that those "grid" types with 4 dipoles have a reasonably tight HRP when vertically polarised, certainly comparable to a VP Yagi with a similar gain figure.

The other problem as far as CCI is concerned that NIMM, although 2kW, behaves like a 50kW DVB-T1 transmitter because of its lower C/N decode threshold.

This has already been dealt with by reslfj, so I won't dwell on the fact that it's a pretty fundamental error to confuse behavior as a wanted signal with potential to cause interference.

Mr Cumulonimbus

Mr Cumulonimbus wrote: »

marclt has posted over in the "Analogue Switch Off - 24/10/2012" thread that Mt Leinster has started transmissions on ch 23. Checked the Divix mux on ch 23 here in Dundalk, and for me signal quality has dropped from 100% to around 30-35%. Is Mt Leinster the cause i wonder? Anyone else notice a difference?

Signal quality for ch 23 from Divis is around 15-20% this evening. No breakup noticed on picture (yet!).

watty

FREETV wrote: »

People should avoid all Vestel made products as they have two software glitches, one is no information for the Saorview EPG and the second is that it won't recognise the new N.I. Minimux or tune them in,

Apart from some high end UK Freeview HD PVRs, there are ONLY rebadged Vestel or worse boxes than Vestel if you want any sort of certified compatibility, so that's strange advice.

updated for Post ASO www.saortv.info

formerly scottish paddy

giveherlong wrote: »

Here’s my predicament:
I want to get Saorview for the midweek Soccer on TV3 and RTE 2 HD etc
I live in Whiteabbey towards the top of the Glenville Rd just past the train bridge

I got a Freeview HD box and I’m picking up the RTE/TG4 NImux from Carmoney Hill fine as well as all the BBC HD etc but as you know the Champions League etc is blanked out on RTE

I tried the auto tune and Manual Tune on Channel 52 on the HD Freeview box from Clermont Carn but nothing is registering at all
Before the switchover I got a great RTE1 & 2, TV3 and TG4 analogue picture on an old Grundig UHF/VHF television and a fairly snowy picture on another newer analogue TV

There are 2 aerials on my roof and- one pointing at Carmoney Hill and the other in the Belfast direction (the next door neighbour has 2 on his as well, about 1/3 of the houses in the area have 2 roof aerials)
As it is a rented house I don’t want to be shelling out a load of cash on aerial installers etc

Since I was getting very clear RTE/TV3 on the Grundig UHF/VHF TV I thought my aerial set-up would be ok (someone did mention that there may be some sort of signal booster built into the Grundig TV)
Someone I spoke with locally said that the very edge of Cave Hill might be blocking signal coming towards the top of the Glenville Rd from Clermont Carn but they weren’t sure

Any thoughts/advice are much appreciated

Well if you we're getting good analogue reception of RTE before the analogue switch off then you should get Saorview no problem.
Have you looked up in the 800 channel nos as that is were Freeview HD boxes store the Saorview channels, also if you have masthead amplifiers fitted it has been said here that they can cause problems.
I have also read here that some of the Freeview boxes have bugs but if you are picking up the NIMM then that doesn't seem to be the cause.

giveherlong

formerly scottish paddy wrote: »

Well if you we're getting good analogue reception of RTE before the analogue switch off then you should get Saorview no problem.
Have you looked up in the 800 channel nos as that is were Freeview HD boxes store the Saorview channels, also if you have masthead amplifiers fitted it has been said here that they can cause problems.
I have also read here that some of the Freeview boxes have bugs but if you are picking up the NIMM then that doesn't seem to be the cause.

Checked the 800s but nothing :mad:

any other suggestions before I get an aerial engineer out?

formerly scottish paddy

giveherlong wrote: »

Checked the 800s but nothing :mad:

any other suggestions before I get an aerial engineer out?

Sorry but that is really weird, I bet it turns out to be something simple. Have you checked with any neibours you know who have RTE aerials if they are getting Saorview?

The Cush

giveherlong wrote: »

Checked the 800s but nothing :mad:

any other suggestions before I get an aerial engineer out?

Saorview reception in the Whiteabbey area on the Saorview coverage checker looks a bit patchy.

Maybe you'll have to install a Group C/D aerial for Clermont Carn.

Peter Rhea

giveherlong wrote: »

any other suggestions before I get an aerial engineer out?

So, the Freeview HD box is connected to the same aerial point as the Grundig tv was? Do you still have the Grundig tv? Maybe it was capable of delivering power to a masthead amplifier on the 'southern' aerial?

giveherlong

The Cush wrote: »

Saorview reception in the Whiteabbey area on the Saorview coverage checker looks a bit patchy.

Maybe you'll have to install a Group C/D aerial for Clermont Carn.

yeah i checked and I'm outside the coverage map but thought i would be ok as i was getting great annalogue

formerly scottish paddy

The Cush wrote: »

Saorview reception in the Whiteabbey area on the Saorview coverage checker looks a bit patchy.

Maybe you'll have to install a Group C/D aerial for Clermont Carn.

He says he got good analogue reception of CC before ASO though?

giveherlong

Peter Rhea wrote: »

So, the Freeview HD box is connected to the same aerial point as the Grundig tv was? Do you still have the Grundig tv? Maybe it was capable of delivering power to a masthead amplifier on the 'southern' aerial?

yeah, connected to same aerial point
still have the tv- any suggestions?

formerly scottish paddy

giveherlong wrote: »

yeah, connected to same aerial point
still have the tv- any suggestions?

What is the make and model of the Freeview HD box?

The Cush

formerly scottish paddy wrote: »

He says he got good analogue reception of CC before ASO though?

The existing aerial setup may not be good enough for for Saorview reception.

mrdtv2010

reslfj wrote: »

Maybe 20dB or 100 times less for an aerial turned exactly 90 deg. Even just 5 or 10 deg over or under 90 deg will, however, allow much more unwanted signal to be received. Try play with a pair of polarized sunglasses.


Indeed - or just turned some fraction of 90 degrees.


Now it is not in free space - it's on a round earth with hills and mountains - but also with a long strech of water and we need the Kilkeel signal to be 20+ dB better for the PSB-3 DVB-T2 HD mux to be received.




Lars

Indeed, which is why I said it was location dependent as borne out by the varying posts here and elsewhere.

Peter Rhea

giveherlong wrote: »

yeah, connected to same aerial point
still have the tv

And it isn't in use atm? Did the 'newer analogue tv' replace it, or were both in use at the same time?